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Anti-Israel Protestants: more Bible study needed
The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles ^ | November 19, 2012 | Mark Paredes

Posted on 11/19/2012 11:57:39 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

“The state of Israel is an illegal, genocidal place… to equate Judaism with the state of Israel is to equate Christianity with Flavor Flav.” – UCC Pastor Emeritus Jeremiah Wright, in a speech to thousands of people in Baltimore in 2011

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. – Acts 17:11

-----

Much has been made in the Jewish community – too much, in my humble opinion – of the recent letter signed by 15 Protestant church leaders calling for Congress to review and possibly suspend U.S. aid to Israel, our closest ally in the Middle East. The signatories believe that “unconditional U.S. military assistance to Israel has contributed to this deterioration, sustaining the conflict and undermining the long-term security interests of both Israelis and Palestinians.” To add insult to injury, the letter was released with no notice on a Jewish holiday, just days before a scheduled interfaith meeting between Protestant and Jewish leaders. Predictably, Jewish leaders angrily withdrew from the meeting and denounced the letter. It is hard to see how this troubled dialogue can be resurrected in the near future.

A letter like this doesn’t come out of a vacuum. The offending churches -- Presbyterian Church (USA), Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, United Methodist Church, National Council of Churches USA and the United Church of Christ (UCC) – are all mainline Protestant bodies. In a recent Pew survey, white mainline Protestants knew less about Christianity and the Bible than Mormons, white Evangelicals, white Catholics, black Protestants, Jews and atheists...

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Judaism; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: israel; jeremiahwright; obama; protestants

1 posted on 11/19/2012 11:57:51 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

untied methodists. figures.


2 posted on 11/20/2012 12:05:12 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and the irony, this article written by a Mormon — who STILL has more clue about the bible than these estimable old, but now creaky, mainlines that chase the do-good du jour but forget their roots.

of course a better answer than “dialogue” would be for all these mainlines to become baptist... i’m not holding my breath that it will happen!


3 posted on 11/20/2012 12:10:39 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There was a survey from about 2 or 3 years ago that didn’t hold up very well when looked at here at FR, tomorrow I will try to see if it is the one they are talking about.


4 posted on 11/20/2012 12:18:50 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
to equate Judaism with the state of Israel is to equate Christianity with Flavor Flav

This feeble attempt at cleverness rather shows that the right Dr. Wright could use a close encounter with logic. The truly discouraging thing about this report is that Jewish leaders would mistake this motley assembly for Christianity.

5 posted on 11/20/2012 12:21:40 AM PST by stormhill
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’m old enough to remember when the Lutheran Church was somewhat conservative and Bible-based.


6 posted on 11/20/2012 12:23:09 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

ELCA is not mainline.


7 posted on 11/20/2012 12:27:07 AM PST by steve8714 (Obama's evil shown actual size.)
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Getting told by a guy who thinks Jesus and Satan are brothers that you need to study scripture more? Ouch. The sad thing is, he’s right.


8 posted on 11/20/2012 1:53:26 AM PST by Hayride
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
It just fascinates me how a person can read the Bible and miss the points. It says in the King's English that we are adopted in, or grafted in,......into what?.... God's Family. That means if you are a Christian by faith, you are now related to Jesus,.......A JEW! Good, bad, or ugly, God's people are the Jews. Jews are His chosen people and we have agreed to join in and He has agreed to accept us in. The Land of Israel was given to the Jews by God Himself. It belongs to them. Jesus will come back and stand on the Mt. of Olives, not in some mosque. The whole Bible is about God's relationship with His people, the Jews. You, as a Christian are allowed to be part of the action. That was supposed to be GLAD tidings. Rooting for the Muzzies, doesn't make sense for a Christian. You are abandoning your own people.

Unless, of course you want no part of Jesus. That is easily arranged.

9 posted on 11/20/2012 2:00:16 AM PST by chuckles
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To: steve8714
"ELCA is not mainline."

It sure is. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, along with the PCUSA and the Episcipagans is as mainline, liberal and non-Christian as it gets.

10 posted on 11/20/2012 2:14:58 AM PST by circlecity
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Onward “Christian” Soldiers, Marching with the Marxists and Islamists.


11 posted on 11/20/2012 2:30:09 AM PST by windsorknot
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
These misnamed "mainline" churches are led by Marxists who infiltrated them starting as early as the beginning of the 20th century, but really accelerated the takeover in the 60s and 70s.

These church leaders are actually haters of God and are gleeful at the ease with which they have succeeded in turning formerly faithful worshipers into social justice would-be tyrants, their minds poisoned by bitterness and sin.

Jesus is not gentle with such as these:

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth..." - John 8:44

12 posted on 11/20/2012 3:44:29 AM PST by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.
Jeremiah Wright... Presbyterian Church (USA), Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, United Methodist Church, National Council of Churches USA and the United Church of Christ (UCC)...
Before anyone runs off at the mouth about every last member of these sects -- oops, too late! -- remember that, aw never mind, such snarking people are just jackasses.


13 posted on 11/20/2012 3:55:37 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I was raised in the United Methodist Church- and I have fond memories of Sunday School- but, what a shame that as I have gotten older I have realized that they don’t know the Bible at all.

If they did, they would understand what Paul said about the progressive-newage “Christian” movement.

I was invited to a children’s meditation meeting , at our local United Methodist Church. It is centering prayer New Age stuff. They believe it is to help them “focus” on God more.

*sigh* teaching that stuff to kids. It really made me sad.


14 posted on 11/20/2012 4:42:33 AM PST by Truth2012
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To: chuckles

These churches are insisting that Jesus was a Palestinian.
They have another Jesus , a fictionally made up Arab one .


15 posted on 11/20/2012 4:52:03 AM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
untied methodists. figures.

You took the word out of my mouth and committed it to posterity.

16 posted on 11/20/2012 5:11:58 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (Better the devil we can destroy than the Judas we must tolerate.)
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To: chuckles

Sorry, but God’s people are the church, not the Jews. God still loves the Jews of course, but they are outside his revealed plan of salvation. Jesus and John the Baptist before him were quite plain spoken about the spiritual peril of Jews who trusted solely in their ancestry. You cannot reject God incarnate and remain his special people.


17 posted on 11/20/2012 5:35:02 AM PST by Romulus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So look at actual scripture instead of off the cuff comments.
Compare Jeremiah 18, Northern Kingdom remade, to Jer. 19 esp. vs 11. Jerusalem shattered like a fired clay pot, never to be made whole again.
Compare Jer. 7:14 to Shiloh’s fate. Judah and Jerusalem told it would be made like Shiloh, which was completely abandoned as the place where god had “set his name at first” cp. 1 Sam 1:24, Ps 78:60 etc.
Read Mt 21-25
21:18-22 The fig tree (Jerusalem) cursed to NEVER produce fruit again. Mountain(Jerusalem) cast into sea(destroyed)
21:28-46 The kingdom taken from Jews given to a nation bringing forth fruits
22:1-14 Destroyed the Jew who were murderers of the prophets.
23 many woes and condemnation for the Jews.
23:36-39 Jerusalem to be left desolate
24 Jerusalem to be destroyed.
25:1-13 five foolish virgins(Jerusalem/Jews) shut out of the marriage feast
25:14-46 Wicked servant(Jews/Jerusalem) has everything taken from him and cast into outer darkness


18 posted on 11/20/2012 5:37:20 AM PST by EyeSalveRich (Proverbs 16:29)
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To: haffast

for you to add to your lists...


19 posted on 11/20/2012 6:08:57 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; Gamecock; rhema
to become baptist... i’m not holding my breath that it will happen!

Won't happen

note that while there is a PCUSA, there is a PCA and while there is a ELCA, there is an LCMS -- the PCA and LCMS folks won't support such a blatantly anti-Israel stance, yet I don't see them becoming Baptists either...

20 posted on 11/20/2012 6:15:42 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: stormhill

well, to those outside Christianity it is difficult — when Pastor Terry who has a congregation of 12, burns a Koran, then Catholic Maronite, Catholic Melkite, Syriac, Syrian Orthodox, Armenian and Assyrian Churches get burned...


21 posted on 11/20/2012 6:17:38 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

in all fairness, the LCMS and WELS are still conservative


22 posted on 11/20/2012 6:18:29 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: steve8714

they are classified as such...


23 posted on 11/20/2012 6:19:06 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Romulus
To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

Jews are God's people by the Old Covenant. That was not ended. Christians are God's people by the New Covenant

24 posted on 11/20/2012 6:25:09 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

Sorry; you’re wrong. Proof-texting proves nothing. Taken as a whole, the NT and Sacred Tradition unambiguously teach that the Jews are alienated. Jesus warns of this over and over.


25 posted on 11/20/2012 7:39:32 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
I didn't say Jews would automatically get salvation. I said they were God's people. People that go to church aren't automatically saved either. Jesus came to the Jew first, then to the Gentile, but He was still a Jew. Jesus was revealed through the Jews, even if they had no part in Him. Condemning Jews because they are Jews is frowned upon in the Bible. I don't think God is neutral in a conflict between Jews and Muslims. Be on the winning side. The whole Bible is about Jesus being revealed through the Jews. It says in the end, all Israel will be saved. Judgement is above my pay grade. The Jews have paid a terrible price to be "chosen people". God loves them just the same.

Choosing the side of Muslims over the Jews would not be a smart move for a Christian. God is not neutral.

26 posted on 11/20/2012 7:50:14 AM PST by chuckles
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

**** In a recent Pew survey, white mainline Protestants knew less about Christianity and the Bible than Mormons,****

Now, THAT is hard to believe! My personal dealings with Mormons have shown them to be almost totally ignorant of Bible doctrine.

But then, this also shows how far these so-called “mainline” Protestants have degenerated. Why the MSM continues to look upon these “mainline” churches as being a reflection of true Christianity is beyond me.


27 posted on 11/20/2012 7:51:43 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: Romulus
they may be alienated, but that doesn't mean that they are not still part of God's Old Covenant. They were God's people even when they sinned against him in Old Testament times.

Christians today are also God's people in His New Covenant.

28 posted on 11/20/2012 8:05:43 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Romulus
they may be alienated, but that doesn't mean that they are not still part of God's Old Covenant. They were God's people even when they sinned against him in Old Testament times.

Christians today are also God's people in His New Covenant. Note that this is separate from salvation

29 posted on 11/20/2012 8:05:53 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
End times apostasy.

Matthew 7:13 (NIV)
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
30 posted on 11/20/2012 8:53:02 AM PST by crosshairs (Hurricane Barry is 1000 times more destructive than Hurricane Sandy.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
My personal dealings with Mormons have shown them to be almost totally ignorant of Bible doctrine.

I can say the same about Catholics.
31 posted on 11/20/2012 8:56:49 AM PST by crosshairs (Hurricane Barry is 1000 times more destructive than Hurricane Sandy.)
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To: Cronos

The end of your quote, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable”, is not in any English translation I see. In fact it is far from most translations.
Actual is below
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
The glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, and the patriarchs are clearly all past tense. The service of God was completed as a kingdom in the Old Testament as well. The promises were of Christ to come which the next verse makes clear. This really has no bearing on the many places where Christ rejected the Southern Kingdom of Jerusalem, and those followers of Judaism who reject him which he called followers of their father the devil. The kingdom was taken from them and was never to be returned to them.


32 posted on 11/20/2012 8:58:56 AM PST by EyeSalveRich (Never produce fruit again)
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To: chuckles

Lets not forget this started as a topic about questioning aid to Israel.
2 Chronicles 19:2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.

Prophecy also showed the fate of the Islamic kingdom. That was fulfilled when the Caliphate was abolished after WWI.


33 posted on 11/20/2012 8:59:13 AM PST by EyeSalveRich (follow Christ)
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To: circlecity

My Mo Synod Lutheran minister friend says they didn’t ask permission to use the name “Lutheran”.


34 posted on 11/20/2012 9:04:27 AM PST by steve8714 (Obama's evil shown actual size.)
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To: steve8714
"My Mo Synod Lutheran minister friend says they didn’t ask permission to use the name “Lutheran”."

They don't need permission. Any church that wants to can call itself "Lutheran".

35 posted on 11/20/2012 9:07:42 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Cronos

Christ the promised Messiah is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. Those who reject Jesus reject their own covenant.

Mat 3: 9 do not presume to say to yourselves, “We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Luke 13: 6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, “Lo, these three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down; why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, “Let it alone, sir, this year also, till I dig about it and put on manure. And if it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’ “

Luke 14: 16 “A man once gave a great banquet, and invited many; and at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, “Come; for all is now ready.’ But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, “I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it; I pray you, have me excused.’ And another said, “I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them; I pray you, have me excused.’ And another said, “I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So the servant came and reported this to his master. Then the householder in anger said to his servant, “Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and maimed and blind and lame.’

Luke 16: 31 He said to him, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’ “

Luke 20: 13 Then the owner of the vineyard said, “What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; it may be they will respect him.’ But when the tenants saw him, they said to themselves, “This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’ And they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy those tenants, and give the vineyard to others.” When they heard this, they said, “God forbid!”

John 1: 11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 4: 35 Do you not say, “There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see how the fields are already white for harvest. He who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, “One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor; others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

John 5: 39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from men. But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; it is Moses who accuses you, on whom you set your hope.


36 posted on 11/20/2012 10:31:53 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Hayride; Ruy Dias de Bivar
Getting told by a guy who thinks Jesus and Satan are brothers that you need to study scripture more? Ouch.

And he claims that "white mainline Protestants don't read the Bible"? LOL the irony is too rich.

37 posted on 11/20/2012 11:11:27 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: circlecity

And Mitt Romney labeled himself conservative.


38 posted on 11/20/2012 11:17:14 AM PST by steve8714 (Obama's evil shown actual size.)
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To: Cronos; Boogieman

Sorry I missed your “ping” yesterday, busy with preparations for the holiday. Looks like vultures over fresh roadkill here.

Actually, been there....

Some Thoughts On The Catholic Vote
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2957587/posts?page=39#39

...done that....

CHRISTIAN PASTOR: THE CHURCH IS HOPELESSLY ANTI-SEMITIC
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2958373/posts?page=33#33

...and this..

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2959638/posts?page=43#43

..and chapters 7 and 10 were thought provoking
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/13228751?access_key=key-19ruqdd8b9xglw2gtew3

But now there is some clean up needed on Aisle 7
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2961257/posts?page=23

Thanks again for your “ping”, your intent is duly noted.


39 posted on 11/21/2012 6:12:08 AM PST by haffast
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To: Truth2012

Now, if all that “focus” only actually enlightened them about what God wants (the bible sure gives us a lot of clues).

Not all individual United Methodist congregations are that lukewarm, as the parent denomination allows a lot of leeway (which means leeway to be good as well as bad). And there are other non-affiliated Methodists, like Free Methodists, who are more serious.


40 posted on 11/21/2012 8:01:57 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: steve8714

What _is_ mainline for Lutheran then? Which isn’t necessarily the most theologically conservative (like LCMS or WELS which have a definitely fightin’ fundie bent).


41 posted on 11/21/2012 8:04:41 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Cronos

Good sense about Israel seems to go along with good sense about the rest of the gospel. I don’t mean it literally about Baptists, and since there’s no actual standard of what it means to be Baptist (other than the Southern Baptist affiliation, which is pretty good) you can have absolute rubbish going on in a place named “Baptist” (the Phelpsians are Exhibit A... they seem so tickled to damn the same America that lets them carry on with their nuttiness — of course, America seems well on the way to damning itself but do you ever see the Phelpsians as trying to help... nope).


42 posted on 11/21/2012 8:11:02 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: chuckles
I don't think God is neutral in a conflict between Jews and Muslims. Be on the winning side.

So was God taking a nap when Hadrian annihilated Israel? Or perhaps upset about a recent event?

43 posted on 11/21/2012 8:25:34 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: Hacksaw
No, as my original post said, Israel is God's chosen people. God never sleeps. If Israel rejected God, they had troubles. When Israel returned to God, they had good times. It was to teach a lesson to any one that paid attention.

Instead of trying to have a comeback on what I said, why not ponder if America has turned from God or would God be happy with us. IMHO, God isn't happy that we have murdered 50 million babies and have voted for legalized Sodomy. Trying to remove God from our country, can't even pray in school, no nativity scenes, and on and on. Do you think it's just bad luck that the Towers fell in New York and the economy collapsed? Do you think Obama is God's man? Do you think things are going to get better? Unless we turn back to God, America will be annihilated. We don't have a clue how bad it can get. Just keep being proud and stiff necked and we will see what it's like to fight God.

Just go back to Viet Nam. Why did we lose even though we never lost a battle? Just look at the hippies, free love, dope, ect and tell me we shouldn't pay. If you sin, God doesn't necessarily strike you down immediately. He can wait. You have plenty of time to turn from sin, but we don't. We are paying for our disobedience right now.

44 posted on 11/21/2012 9:07:42 PM PST by chuckles
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