Guess Who?

Mormon Reasearch Ministry ^ | Mormon Reasearch Ministry

[lupie]

A much more interesting question is: How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?

That is not any more interesting of a question than is this one: How many Roman Catholics or even Roman Catholic priests don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?

The answer to both is: not one person who does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity is a Christian. It doesn't matter what church or cult they associate with or how much education or training they have had, etc., if they don't believe that, they are not Christians. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian or even a pastor or a priest, no matter what denomination they are "associated" with does not make them a Christian.

[mc5cents]

An authentic Kyrie eleison in the Gregorian manner

[imardmd1]

Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. (Article Post) reaganaut/MRM

I'm with you on this, folks, more than 100% ...

Mormons will say that they don't worship Joseph Smith, yet a look at the above quotes sound a lot like things Christians would say about Christ, even using biblical terms that apply to Christ, yet the LDS apply them to Joseph Smith. (Post 1) reaganaut

... but this aspect of LDS doctrine is one I had missed on my study and documents related to LDS applications. Good assertion.

Implicite in the statement from any Mormon I have met and said "We are Christians" is they are ....You are not. (Post 3) Vendome

Yeah, I sang in a Barbershop quartet in which the lead was an LDS member. We had several discussions on our beliefs demonstrating their irreconcilabilities. (As an aside, his name was Norman. Guess our nickname for him -- )

Finally, I believe the Bible and AS A CHRISTIAN I am COMMANDED to speak out against false teachings and false Christ’s. I am doing what the BIBLE commands me. (Post 23) reaganaut

I'm glad you have, here with this article and responses. I support you (which is little), but the Holy Scriptures undergird your stance strongly and firmly, commanding that you earnestly contend for The Faith once delivered to the saints, for the purpose of showing the common facts leading to conviction, repentance, persistently committed trust, and eternal salvation.

And I know first hand that Mormonism isn’t Christian. I was saved out of it almost 20 years ago. (Post 32) reaganaut

Ah, that is not unique. If you really hold the various implementation of doctrines to the light of Scripture, you will find the LDS teaching is not the only rejection of interpretation faced by the matured disciple of The Christ. I was saved out of Methodism, whose foundation really traces back through the Anglican connection and is anchored in the Romanism religion.

The Master privately warned his disciples:

"... if* any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ^**, or there; believe it not***. For there shall arise false Christs****, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that if***** it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Mt 24:23-24, cf. Mk 13:21-22; also 2 Pet. 2:1-3).

(Keys:
- if* : if, and it may be = 3rd class conditional
- Christ^** : ^ meaning "Anointed One" in English, "Messiach" in Hebrew; ** this is articular, should be "The Christ"
- believe...not*** : do not commit trust to the prophet or to a christ he is claiming to be The Christ
- Christs**** : this is anarthrous, and should be rendered without the specificity lent by capitalization -- "christ"
- if***** : if, and it is true = 1st class conditional)

In counseling the divided church at Corinth, Apostle Paul's agony over them was inscripturated:

"... I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ^**. For if he that cometh preaches another^^ Jesus, whom we~ have not preached,or if ye receive another^^^ spirit, which ye have not received, or another^^^ gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him" (2 Cor. 11:3-4)

(Keys:
- Christ^** : as above, The Christ, The Messiach. The Anointed One [refers to The God's water- and Spirit-anointed The King of Kings]
- another^^ : in the Koine Greek, allo = anotherof the same kind
we~ : "we" is Apostle Paul and his disciple Timothy (and of course inspiring The Holy Ghost), exclusively
another ^^^ : in the Koine Greek, hetero = another of a different kind)

Paul and Timothy's fear was that the minds of the Corinthian assembly's constituents would be corrupted by the elders allowing false prophets to air their views before the congregation, rather than discerning the drift of false teachers, declaring them anathema, and forbidding their assembling with the brethren.

Here, Paul and Timothy are not talking about Mormons or JWs or Unitarians, each of whom have other christs of a different kind (who should be summarily rejected, not even bidding them "Good day" nor of inviting them into your house for a discussion; see 2 John verses 9-11). No, they are warning of those who present another Jesus of the same kind, who was said to be The Same True Jesus (who is/was Eternal God incarnated, lived, suffered, died, visited Paradise, resurrected, ascended, returned briefly to walk 40 days with his converted disciples, reascended, sent His Spirit to regenerate the converted believer-disciples, and Who is to come to this sphere once more); BUT IS NOT. This "Jesus" is one described to be of the same kind, but whose "gospel" is of a "salvation" that can be lost, which depends on supererogatory works of the adherent; and which offers a second chance after death; as well as requiring one to seek Him to obtain His Grace by earning it through observing religious rituals. The true regenerated believer-disciple is faced with a plethora of similar christs but whose salvation plan is contraindicated by scripture, as is the spirit behind such a gospel.

So, in pointing toward those claiming God's favor but who have various false christs of a different kind, a dissimilar kind, who will not survive the examination by even a spiritual infant; one should at the same time warn more spiritually mature people, who have overcome the Wicked One, but whom might still be vulnerable to the approaches by preachers who offer a christ of a similar kind, another one of the same kind, but with a different doctrine of church polity, of salvation, of corrupted scripture translation, etc.; whose spirit is not The Holy Ghost, but is one from that dragon, the serpent, the Liar and father of falsehood, that old Devil.

Watch out for these also, who more subtly seek to divide the brethren. These are spiritually discerned, not beguiling the person steeped in the deep things of The God.

Warmly, but winning, watching, and warning regenerated disciples ---

[Eric in the Ozarks]

It is becoming tiresome.

[Charles Henrickson]

"We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church. . . ."

No, you are not Christians. You do not teach the truth about Jesus Christ. If you get the person and work of Christ wrong, you are not Christians. You are heretics, false teachers, who need to be condemned.

[Charles Henrickson]

BTW, while I condemn Mormonism for the false teaching that it is, at the same time I just voted for a Mormon for President. His wrong religious beliefs had nothing to do with my thinking he would do a better job in the office than his opponent.

[Charles Henrickson]

I am opposed to ‘organized religion’. I believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

That is a false dichotomy, and it is contrary to what we see in the New Testament.

[Charles Henrickson]

I am opposed to ‘organized religion’.

I am opposed to disorganized religion.

[Alex Murphy]

Ping! Smithmas is coming!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"It is becoming tiresome."

[chris37]

Well, you were fooled before.

What if you have been fooled again?

While I do believe in a creator, I think the the world’s religions are yet another attempt by mankind to control minds on a large scale basis.

I do not believe that anyone knows or has ever known why we are here, how we got here, or what our purpose is if any. One thing I do know for certain is that people fear their own mortality, and other people use that fear to control them.

You really do not know for a fact that anyone’s teachings are false. You do not know for a 100% fact that your teachings are false or not. They are your beliefs, and nothing more.

[Tennessee Nana]

We’re going on a Disney Cruise !!!

Zippity-do-da !!!

Belle, Jasmine, Ariel !!!

:)

[daniel1212]

Well, your atheistic broad brushing of all religions together is not only inaccurate, but is ill-fitting on this “pro-God” forum, which the owner has often affirmed it to be, as in

“For God, Family, Country, Life and Liberty!!

If you cannot live with the above, fine, but keep your mouth shut about it while on FR. Don’t fight against us on ANY of our deeply held beliefs!! “ - Jim Robinson

If i want debates with atheists, i can and do go to the Huffington post, on which i have been debating a prohomosexual atheist.

However, if you want to civilly discuss the differences btwn a cult and Biblical faith, and benefits thereof, then that has a place here.

[daniel1212]

Hard to find, but as Jesus could not be God is He sinned,

73% (highest) of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly affirm that Christ was sinless on earth, with Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists being tied at 33%, and the lowest being among Episcopalians with just 28% http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/53

Also,

In releasing the telephone survey of 612 adults of the Diocese of Camden (NJ) by by the Barna Group, Bishop Joseph Galante said he was particularly dismayed to learn that 57 percent of the Catholics believed Jesus had sinned during his time on Earth and was “no different” from other human beings — in sharp contrast to core church teaching that Jesus was without sin. Only 28 percent of non-Catholic Christians thought Jesus had sinned. http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-05/news/31573457_1_parishes-diocese-gay-marriage

As far as denominations go, a poorly referenced chart says that less than 2.2 percent of Christians belong to sects professing to believe that Jesus is not God. http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/9451/what-percent-of-christians-believe-jesus-was-not-god-and-instead-was-messenger

[daniel1212]

And see http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html

[Godzilla]

A much more interesting question is: How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?

mixing fruit here. Mormonism rejects the trinity as a matter of doctrine

what INDIVIDUALS believe in contradiction to that denomination DOCTRINE is a folly on the individual, not the denomination.

[chris37]

I’m not an atheist at all.

I do not practice any religion, however.

Furthermore, I do not believe that my belief system is some type of universal law and that other belief systems are an offense to it.

From what I can see, you are a bigot who cannot accept that other may not see things as you do, and you are only comfortable in an echo chamber where no voice challenges your view of things.

I am also for God, Family, Country, and Liberty.

I am not for Mormon bashing.

[freedomlover]

Thanks for the bump!

[fishtank]

Counterfeiting is not a joke.

When people accept a counterfeit Jesus, there are ETERNAL consequences. Romney continually put forth a counterfeit faith in a fake plastic lds jesus.

These posts are still timely.

Jesus is timeless.

[greyfoxx39]

No, they are warning of those who present another Jesus of the same kind, who was said to be The Same True Jesus (who is/was Eternal God incarnated, lived, suffered, died, visited Paradise, resurrected, ascended, returned briefly to walk 40 days with his converted disciples, reascended, sent His Spirit to regenerate the converted believer-disciples, and Who is to come to this sphere once more); BUT IS NOT. This "Jesus" is one described to be of the same kind, but whose "gospel" is of a "salvation" that can be lost, which depends on supererogatory works of the adherent; and which offers a second chance after death; as well as requiring one to seek Him to obtain His Grace by earning it through observing religious rituals. The true regenerated believer-disciple is faced with a plethora of similar christs but whose salvation plan is contraindicated by scripture, as is the spirit behind such a gospel.

Excellent post.