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Guess Who?
Mormon Reasearch Ministry ^ | Mormon Reasearch Ministry

Posted on 11/14/2012 10:44:44 PM PST by reaganaut

Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).

In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."

How did you do?

If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.

Quotes with References

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)


TOPICS: Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Religion & Politics; Worship
KEYWORDS: inman; mormon
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Mormons will say that they don't worship Joseph Smith, yet a look at the above quotes sound a lot like things Christians would say about Christ, even using biblical terms that apply to Christ, yet the LDS apply them to Joseph Smith.

Additionally, there is the LDS hymn about Joseph "Praise to the Man" (lyrics below) and the BYU nativity for Joseph Smith.

"Praise to the Man" (in current LDS hymnbook and sung often in most wards)

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed “that Prophet and Seer”— Blessed to open the last dispensation; Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Refrain. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain; Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr, Honored and blest be his ever great name! Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins; Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory, and endless his Priesthood, Ever and ever the keys he will hold; Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the Prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man; Wake up the world for the conflict of justice; Millions shall know “brother Joseph” again.

1 posted on 11/14/2012 10:44:51 PM PST by reaganaut
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...
Photobucket
2 posted on 11/14/2012 10:45:44 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut
We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 
Implicite in the statement from any Mormon I have met and said "We are Christians" is they are ....You are not.
 
They are not part of the larger body of Christ.  Nothing to whine over.  They just believe all others are apostates and they have no choice really.
 
There is no Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints without Joseph Smith's "Revelations".
 
In fact, all Christians are "Whores of Babylon".
 
Heck, I've even been called a "Gracer" and some other stuff I forgot but, I'll probably get called it again.
 
I actually had to ask the OP of this thread what one of terms meant and it should have been obvious.  I laughed when it was explained.
 
Mormonism is a religion and culture of exclusivity and a closed society.
 
If you ever thought you were of this world but not part of this world then the Mormons really believe that too and 1 billion Christians are screwed as far as they are concerned and their screw you attitude.
 
Don't like what I just posted?  Challenge it. I read the BOM, PoP and a good portion of D&C over the last 6 years and I've become pretty steeped in Mormon history and folklore.
 
I must admit, I'm pretty surprised by the thing I know that many Mormons don't, or so they claim.
 
Flame suit on and sipping Single Malt Scotch....

3 posted on 11/14/2012 10:58:52 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: reaganaut

Thank goodness we didnt get a nasty mormon businessman elected. Now we get four more years of a communist muslim who wants to kill the babies that survive abortions.

Nice work to the ones that voted for nutty 3rd parties or stayed home.


4 posted on 11/14/2012 10:59:09 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

I did not think the FR Pro Obama people would be back so soon. I guess we should tell them Romney lost already.


5 posted on 11/14/2012 11:02:50 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: DesertRhino

Don’t know what’s more awesome, the continued rule of the Chicago Marxist, or the continued cut-and-paste anti-Mormon spam at FR.


6 posted on 11/14/2012 11:04:40 PM PST by Dagnabitt (If I had a failed President, he'd look like Obama.)
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To: reaganaut

0bama Zombie say: “0bama good. 0bama not Mormon. Long live 0bama!”


7 posted on 11/14/2012 11:07:47 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Vendome

I must admit, I’m pretty surprised by the thing I know that many Mormons don’t, or so they claim.
- - - - - - -
Don’t be. Most LDS have no clue what their church teaches or if they do, they lie about it.


9 posted on 11/14/2012 11:12:01 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: DesertRhino

Did you see Romney’s name anywhere in my post? No. This has nothing to do with Romney so get over it.

I have been posting articles against Mormonism LONG before Romney ran the LAST time. Check my signup date.

BTW, my state wasn’t a swing state so don’t blame me for Romney’s failure of a campaign.


10 posted on 11/14/2012 11:13:56 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat; DesertRhino

First of all this is the RELIGION FORUM, if you don’t like it -leave.

Second, I know no one on here who is pro Obama or voted for him.

Third, this post has NOTHING to do with Romney. Stop trying to hijack the thread.


11 posted on 11/14/2012 11:16:05 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Dagnabitt; TigersEye; All

For the last time this has NOTHING to do with Romney and everything to do with Joseph Smith.


12 posted on 11/14/2012 11:17:30 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: cherry

we needed to elect Romney, some of you voted for the bammey girlie man,and now you want to make the rest of us feel better by this constant demeaning of Mitt....

its very infantile...

- - - -
I would have posted this even if Romney won. It’s the truth about Mormonism and that needs to be told.

The reason I didn’t post it sooner, was someone had just sent me the link.


13 posted on 11/14/2012 11:19:07 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

It is all very tiresome. Even on the Religion threads......I know you never get tired. Well, have at it.


14 posted on 11/14/2012 11:23:23 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: DesertRhino
Thank goodness we didnt get a nasty mormon businessman elected. Now we get four more years of a communist muslim who wants to kill the babies that survive abortions. Nice work to the ones that voted for nutty 3rd parties or stayed home.

Well, at least we have a mormon Senate majority leader Harry Reid, so it is not a total loss. s/

15 posted on 11/14/2012 11:24:39 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat

As long as there are Mormons, I’ll be speaking the truth about them. I don’t want others fooled like I was.


16 posted on 11/14/2012 11:29:05 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Vendome

Here’s a “flame” from me to you.

The word “implicit” does not have an “e” on the end of it.

(Have another drink!)


17 posted on 11/14/2012 11:33:02 PM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: reaganaut

You must believe exaclty as I do, or you will burn in HEEEEEEIIIIILLLLLLUH!

You must follow these rules exactly, and shun all those other rules, or you will burn in HEEEEEEEIIIIILLLLLLUH!

You know what, reaganaut? Religion sucks, and people are control freaks. Why don’t you believe whatever makes you feel better and let others do the same.


18 posted on 11/14/2012 11:41:37 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: reaganaut

This is all so uninteresting!

Mormons do not believe in the Trinity. Thus, they cannot believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity. Thus, they are not orthodox Christians.

A much more interesting question is: How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?


19 posted on 11/14/2012 11:45:22 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're for sticking scissors in a baby girl's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: shibumi; Vendome

Here’s a “flame” from me to you.

The word “implicit” does not have an “e” on the end of it.

(Have another drink!)

- - - - - -
Make it a doublee!! ;)


20 posted on 11/14/2012 11:45:56 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

Did you ‘Reasearch’ that joke?


21 posted on 11/14/2012 11:54:00 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: chris37

You must believe exaclty as I do, or you will burn in HEEEEEEIIIIILLLLLLUH!

You must follow these rules exactly, and shun all those other rules, or you will burn in HEEEEEEEIIIIILLLLLLUH!

You know what, reaganaut? Religion sucks, and people are control freaks. Why don’t you believe whatever makes you feel better and let others do the same.

- - - - - - -
First I never said people had to believe exactly as I do, there are CORE Doctrines that all people who are Christians MUST agree on, but are free do disagree on other, non salvific doctrines. I can give you a list if you would like.

Second, I don’t believe in religious ‘rules’. That is the core of Mormonism and I shunned that when I left.

Third, I am opposed to ‘organized religion’. I believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Finally, I believe the Bible and AS A CHRISTIAN I am COMMANDED to speak out against false teachings and false Christ’s. I am doing what the BIBLE commands me.


22 posted on 11/15/2012 12:04:53 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Arthur McGowan

No they believe Jesus is a product of intercourse between God and Mary and that he lived a perfect life and thus earned his Godhood early and is one of 3 separate gods just for this planet.

As to your second question..”How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?”

I am sure there are some individuals who don’t believe that but it is NOT institutional (as the Mormon doctrine is) and if they don’t believe that, they are not Christians regardless if they go to church or not.


23 posted on 11/15/2012 12:07:40 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: TigersEye

LOL, not at all.


24 posted on 11/15/2012 12:08:25 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut
An outstanding "Kyrie."
25 posted on 11/15/2012 12:08:40 AM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: shibumi

I enjoyed what I could hear of it. Thanks for that link.


26 posted on 11/15/2012 12:11:51 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut; shibumi

Since when?

LOL

I found a bottle of Balvenie Caribean I bought a few months ago but the house cleaner must’ve moved it.

Forgot all about.

Found it when when I was rummaging for a certain type of glass to drink from and my friend was telling me “Stupid. I’ll drink from a rusty can. Hurry up”.

I started laughing and that’s when I found the two bottles.

So we are drinking and solving the worlds problems.

I freakin love this new version of Balvenie!!!!


27 posted on 11/15/2012 12:16:58 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: TigersEye

You realize, of course, that every time I respond to you now I will add extra ‘e’s to my words, righte?


28 posted on 11/15/2012 12:17:46 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Vendome

I miss Sempe Armagnac, we used to drink a lot of that when I was in culinary school as it was my chef instructor’s favorite.


29 posted on 11/15/2012 12:19:31 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

Ia guessa I’lla adda extraa ‘a’s toa alla ofa mya postsa toa youa.


30 posted on 11/15/2012 12:19:47 AM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: reaganaut

Read “ Cult Watch” by John Ankerberg and John Weldon and you will see that Mormons are not Christians , not even close. (Jesus and Satan were brothers and you can become a god yourself)


31 posted on 11/15/2012 12:35:13 AM PST by fish hawk
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To: fish hawk

That is a great book. And I know first hand that Mormonism isn’t Christian. I was saved out of it almost 20 years ago.


32 posted on 11/15/2012 12:37:06 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

There is also a great series called The Pagan Invasion. It may seem a bit dated but it covers issues like the LDS, Watchtower, Witchcraft etc.


33 posted on 11/15/2012 12:48:50 AM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: reaganaut
I was taught by a Protestant pastor (when I was a Protestant) the SAME THING that I am being taught by the Orthodox Christian church: that LDS has (1) a different god, (2) a different savior, (3) a different pathway to salvation, and lastly, (4) a different heaven.

I've studied it. It's true: their "god" is predated by the Universe, he was a being that perfected himself, their "Christ" is merely the "firstborn" and not as John 1:1 describes, their path to salvation involves earning it through individual effort, and lastly, they have three heavens.

Mormonism can't bear close scrutiny without falling apart. Not if one approaches it with intellectual integrity, it can't.

Sauron

34 posted on 11/15/2012 1:00:37 AM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: reaganaut

Never had it but, my friends chef friends have talked about it.

Sipping good?


35 posted on 11/15/2012 1:31:55 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: reaganaut

Re: post 23
Amen.

Thank you for your clear explainations and speaking forth the truth.


36 posted on 11/15/2012 1:34:43 AM PST by PastorJimCM (truth matters)
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To: Arthur McGowan; reaganaut

Well, Uhm....tell me...

How many Protestants don’t believe Jesus Christ is the second coming?

Or are we going to play word games with your original wording “How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?”


37 posted on 11/15/2012 1:51:56 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: TigersEye; reaganaut

She doesn’t have to research the joke.

She knows I speak Spanish..


38 posted on 11/15/2012 1:53:41 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: TigersEye

Write that yourself did ya...


39 posted on 11/15/2012 3:38:37 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: reaganaut; Colofornian

I’m thinking that the absence of a cross on, or in, their ‘worship’ buildings might be a tip-off also....


40 posted on 11/15/2012 3:42:12 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum -- "The Taliban is inside the building")
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To: Arthur McGowan
A much more interesting question is: How many mainline or even evangelical Protestants don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?

That is not any more interesting of a question than is this one: How many Roman Catholics or even Roman Catholic priests don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity?

The answer to both is: not one person who does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity is a Christian. It doesn't matter what church or cult they associate with or how much education or training they have had, etc., if they don't believe that, they are not Christians. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian or even a pastor or a priest, no matter what denomination they are "associated" with does not make them a Christian.

41 posted on 11/15/2012 4:13:11 AM PST by lupie
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To: shibumi
An authentic Kyrie eleison in the Gregorian manner
42 posted on 11/15/2012 4:25:00 AM PST by mc5cents (trai)
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To: reaganaut; Vendome
Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. (Article Post) reaganaut/MRM

I'm with you on this, folks, more than 100% ...

Mormons will say that they don't worship Joseph Smith, yet a look at the above quotes sound a lot like things Christians would say about Christ, even using biblical terms that apply to Christ, yet the LDS apply them to Joseph Smith. (Post 1) reaganaut

... but this aspect of LDS doctrine is one I had missed on my study and documents related to LDS applications. Good assertion.

Implicite in the statement from any Mormon I have met and said "We are Christians" is they are ....You are not. (Post 3) Vendome

Yeah, I sang in a Barbershop quartet in which the lead was an LDS member. We had several discussions on our beliefs demonstrating their irreconcilabilities. (As an aside, his name was Norman. Guess our nickname for him -- )

Finally, I believe the Bible and AS A CHRISTIAN I am COMMANDED to speak out against false teachings and false Christ’s. I am doing what the BIBLE commands me. (Post 23) reaganaut

I'm glad you have, here with this article and responses. I support you (which is little), but the Holy Scriptures undergird your stance strongly and firmly, commanding that you earnestly contend for The Faith once delivered to the saints, for the purpose of showing the common facts leading to conviction, repentance, persistently committed trust, and eternal salvation.

And I know first hand that Mormonism isn’t Christian. I was saved out of it almost 20 years ago. (Post 32) reaganaut

Ah, that is not unique. If you really hold the various implementation of doctrines to the light of Scripture, you will find the LDS teaching is not the only rejection of interpretation faced by the matured disciple of The Christ. I was saved out of Methodism, whose foundation really traces back through the Anglican connection and is anchored in the Romanism religion.

The Master privately warned his disciples:

"... if* any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ^**, or there; believe it not***. For there shall arise false Christs****, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that if***** it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Mt 24:23-24, cf. Mk 13:21-22; also 2 Pet. 2:1-3).

(Keys:
- if* : if, and it may be = 3rd class conditional
- Christ^** : ^ meaning "Anointed One" in English, "Messiach" in Hebrew; ** this is articular, should be "The Christ"
- believe...not*** : do not commit trust to the prophet or to a christ he is claiming to be The Christ
- Christs**** : this is anarthrous, and should be rendered without the specificity lent by capitalization -- "christ"
- if***** : if, and it is true = 1st class conditional)

In counseling the divided church at Corinth, Apostle Paul's agony over them was inscripturated:

"... I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ^**. For if he that cometh preaches another^^ Jesus, whom we~ have not preached,or if ye receive another^^^ spirit, which ye have not received, or another^^^ gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him" (2 Cor. 11:3-4)

(Keys:
- Christ^** : as above, The Christ, The Messiach. The Anointed One [refers to The God's water- and Spirit-anointed The King of Kings]
- another^^ : in the Koine Greek, allo = anotherof the same kind
we~ : "we" is Apostle Paul and his disciple Timothy (and of course inspiring The Holy Ghost), exclusively
another ^^^ : in the Koine Greek, hetero = another of a different kind)

Paul and Timothy's fear was that the minds of the Corinthian assembly's constituents would be corrupted by the elders allowing false prophets to air their views before the congregation, rather than discerning the drift of false teachers, declaring them anathema, and forbidding their assembling with the brethren.

Here, Paul and Timothy are not talking about Mormons or JWs or Unitarians, each of whom have other christs of a different kind (who should be summarily rejected, not even bidding them "Good day" nor of inviting them into your house for a discussion; see 2 John verses 9-11). No, they are warning of those who present another Jesus of the same kind, who was said to be The Same True Jesus (who is/was Eternal God incarnated, lived, suffered, died, visited Paradise, resurrected, ascended, returned briefly to walk 40 days with his converted disciples, reascended, sent His Spirit to regenerate the converted believer-disciples, and Who is to come to this sphere once more); BUT IS NOT. This "Jesus" is one described to be of the same kind, but whose "gospel" is of a "salvation" that can be lost, which depends on supererogatory works of the adherent; and which offers a second chance after death; as well as requiring one to seek Him to obtain His Grace by earning it through observing religious rituals. The true regenerated believer-disciple is faced with a plethora of similar christs but whose salvation plan is contraindicated by scripture, as is the spirit behind such a gospel.

So, in pointing toward those claiming God's favor but who have various false christs of a different kind, a dissimilar kind, who will not survive the examination by even a spiritual infant; one should at the same time warn more spiritually mature people, who have overcome the Wicked One, but whom might still be vulnerable to the approaches by preachers who offer a christ of a similar kind, another one of the same kind, but with a different doctrine of church polity, of salvation, of corrupted scripture translation, etc.; whose spirit is not The Holy Ghost, but is one from that dragon, the serpent, the Liar and father of falsehood, that old Devil.

Watch out for these also, who more subtly seek to divide the brethren. These are spiritually discerned, not beguiling the person steeped in the deep things of The God.

Warmly, but winning, watching, and warning regenerated disciples ---

43 posted on 11/15/2012 4:35:56 AM PST by imardmd1
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To: Dagnabitt

It is becoming tiresome.


44 posted on 11/15/2012 4:46:30 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: reaganaut
"We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church. . . ."

No, you are not Christians. You do not teach the truth about Jesus Christ. If you get the person and work of Christ wrong, you are not Christians. You are heretics, false teachers, who need to be condemned.

45 posted on 11/15/2012 5:54:06 AM PST by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: reaganaut

BTW, while I condemn Mormonism for the false teaching that it is, at the same time I just voted for a Mormon for President. His wrong religious beliefs had nothing to do with my thinking he would do a better job in the office than his opponent.


46 posted on 11/15/2012 5:57:44 AM PST by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: reaganaut
I am opposed to ‘organized religion’. I believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

That is a false dichotomy, and it is contrary to what we see in the New Testament.

47 posted on 11/15/2012 6:25:43 AM PST by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: reaganaut
I am opposed to ‘organized religion’.

I am opposed to disorganized religion.

48 posted on 11/15/2012 6:31:36 AM PST by Charles Henrickson (Lutheran pastor, LCMS)
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To: reaganaut

Ping! Smithmas is coming!


49 posted on 11/15/2012 7:09:33 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
"It is becoming tiresome."


50 posted on 11/15/2012 7:16:27 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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