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The Majority of Cardinal Dolan's Seminarians Are Pro-Abortion
Eyewitness | 121113 | Arthur McGowan

Posted on 11/13/2012 10:30:37 AM PST by Arthur McGowan

On November 4, 2012, a debate was held at St. Joseph's Seminary in Dunwoodie, N.Y.

At the end of the debate, out of 52 seminarians, 19 voted for Romney.

Cardinal Dolan lectures his fellow bishops on the need for "conversion," while he is running a seminary in which a majority of the seminarians are pro-abortion.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: blowhard; catholicvote; chat; dolan; hypocrisy; sellout; unverifiableanecdote; vanity
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1 posted on 11/13/2012 10:30:42 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

What?!!! How do you know that?


2 posted on 11/13/2012 10:32:00 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Arthur McGowan

If true , those who voted for abortion should be put out of the Seminary.


3 posted on 11/13/2012 10:33:50 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Arthur McGowan

These seminarians reflect the average Cathholic voter rather well.

What’s the big deal here?

(Apart from the fact that many Catholics are liberals AND are going to Hell....)


4 posted on 11/13/2012 10:38:17 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Liberalism has infiltrated the church too.


5 posted on 11/13/2012 10:39:53 AM PST by I want the USA back
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To: Responsibility2nd

Care to say which ones?


6 posted on 11/13/2012 10:40:24 AM PST by CityCenter (Presidential terms are 4 years, eternity is forever.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

An eyewitness.


7 posted on 11/13/2012 10:44:12 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you are against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out the brains, you are anti-woman)
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To: Arthur McGowan

How is it that you have this information?


8 posted on 11/13/2012 10:44:57 AM PST by jobim (.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
On November 4, 2012, a debate was held at St. Joseph's Seminary in Dunwoodie, N.Y.

Who was debating? What was the debate about? Was the "scoring" based on who was the better debater or which candidate the seminarians supported regardless of the debate performance? Was abortion the primary topic? Or did the seminarians get swept up in the whole "social justice" ideology while holding their noses on Obama's abortion support?

9 posted on 11/13/2012 10:48:11 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

The good Cardinal needs to replace those seminary students with some of the many good Catholics who are still out here and would be interested in Holy orders.

The Church doesn’t need any more “progressive anti-life” priests! Toss out the tares and plant us some good wheat, please!


10 posted on 11/13/2012 10:51:16 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: Arthur McGowan

And you know this because......
A. You were squished inside the ballot box
B. You were asked to pull the lever yourself, for theses seminarians
C. The seminarians were proud to report to you their full throated opposition to the Catholic Church, the Holy Father and thir Bishop.


11 posted on 11/13/2012 10:51:32 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Unsourced post. Hearsay. Reported to the mods, and will hopefully be deleted.


12 posted on 11/13/2012 10:52:38 AM PST by COBOL2Java (The GOP-e said "Beat a Marxist with a Liberal!" What a colossal blunder.)
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To: RitaOK

Sorry, I’m on my cell keyboard.


13 posted on 11/13/2012 10:52:59 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: jobim

An eyewitness.


14 posted on 11/13/2012 10:53:31 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you are against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out the brains, you are anti-woman)
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To: Arthur McGowan
On November 4, 2012, a debate was held at St. Joseph's Seminary in Dunwoodie, N.Y. At the end of the debate, out of 52 seminarians, 19 voted for Romney.

PING for an Arthur McGowan thread!

15 posted on 11/13/2012 10:54:55 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Did the others vote?

How do you know this?


16 posted on 11/13/2012 10:56:50 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Probably the majority didn't vote for Romney because they are social justice oriented...it was not necessarily the abortion issue.

Although I agree with you that if they didn't vote Romney, they are acting in favor of abortion.

A lot of the social justice Catholics are pure hypocrites. I know because I have them in my family.

17 posted on 11/13/2012 11:03:36 AM PST by what's up
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To: RitaOK

I’ve already answered this. An eyewitness.


18 posted on 11/13/2012 11:03:44 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you are against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out the brains, you are anti-woman)
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To: onyx

Note that the “source” at the top of the thread is an “eyewitness.” Since it is a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, obviously he does not want his name published.


19 posted on 11/13/2012 11:06:29 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you are against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out the brains, you are anti-woman)
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To: onyx

Note that the “source” at the top of the thread is an “eyewitness.” Since he is a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, obviously he does not want his name published.


20 posted on 11/13/2012 11:06:58 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you are against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out the brains, you are anti-woman)
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To: onyx

Note that the “source” at the top of the thread is an “eyewitness.” Since he is a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, obviously he does not want his name published.


21 posted on 11/13/2012 11:07:53 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are anti-woman.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

So as a Catholic priest yourself, what’s your solution to this problem? SSPX, leaving the Church some other way, or something else?


22 posted on 11/13/2012 11:12:24 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

I’ve already answered this. An eyewitness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Answer it again! Answer it again!

Man, this is getting funny. As you keep getting “How do you kn ow this?” questions, you need to repeat the “debate” part again.

Hoo Boy. I see a lot of Catholics are getting mad at you here. Too bad. As I said earlier... this seems par for the course for the average Catholic voter.


23 posted on 11/13/2012 11:14:57 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Rashputin

Nothing I’ve said implies that leaving the Church is a rational option. Why would I leave the Church founded by Jesus Christ?


24 posted on 11/13/2012 11:15:19 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're against sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are anti-woman.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Thanks for posting this. Instead of calling for the censorship of this kind of information, Faithful Catholics should be calling for cleaning out the stables at seminaries responsible for this kind of woeful preparation of our future priests.

I talked to a very well connected Catholic in September who claimed a source in the USCCB bureaucracy told them half of the USCCB bishops were still planning on voting for Obama.

What good is it to stick our collective heads in the sand and refuse to address the elephant in the room?

The problems in the Catholic Church in the USA is the chancery and USCCB bureaucrats that run the Church in this country, a bunch of liberal/progressive “social justice” hacks.

Remember too the observation that, “All heresy starts below the waste.” And this is all too true among the Church bureaucracies in this country.

Still.


25 posted on 11/13/2012 11:15:22 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Arthur McGowan; JCBreckenridge

And here is more of that unified voice with which Rome speaks. Did this too come from the catechism?


26 posted on 11/13/2012 11:16:05 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Arthur McGowan
Dear Arthur McGowan,

I'm sure that at least some of the seminarians would say that they didn't vote for the anti-Christ because he favors an absolute and extreme abortion license, up to and including a little bit past the point of birth.

I'm sure that they would [lamely] make the case that they were voting for him because of his “commitment” to other “Catholic ideals,” such as feeding the poor, caring for the sick, etc., etc., etc. And against Gov. Romney because he's a fire-breathing, eat-poor-babies-and-drink-their-blood evil capitalist greedhead. Or something like that.

And the way that the Cardinal Dolan and the bishops have handled these questions, they'd be hard-pressed to make the case that these seminarians have done anything wrong.

However, we should also be careful not to denounce people for being evil when it's possible that they're merely stupid. Unrepentant evil people may often wind up in Hell, but there is no IQ requirement for getting into Heaven.

My own experience with young priests and seminarians (and not a few older priests, and even bishops) is that many of them are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer. Thus, I'd chalk up part of this result that you cite as being the outcome of stupidity on the part of many.


sitetest

27 posted on 11/13/2012 11:17:38 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: what's up

Even if they are “social justice types,” Catholic seminarians have a duty to be better informed than to believe the Republicans are a threat to the “social safety net.”


28 posted on 11/13/2012 11:20:06 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: what's up

Christians need to go a lot further than abortion and same-sex marriage. The Obama/Dem agenda is institutionalized envy, jealousy, covetousness, bitterness and theft. Christians look at the lefts agenda of envy/jealousy/covetousness/bitterness and fall for the lie that it is all love and light. They weigh abortion against the “great charitable heart” of Democrats and come out for Dems. The Dems compound sin with sin, evil with evil. There is no trade off. Do Christians even bother to ask how is it even possible for politicians who are such ardent advocates of abortion and sodomy to be paragons of virtue on other issues.
Today’s Christians would rewrite Jesus’ parable of the golden talents and take away the talents from the man who had five and redistribute them to those with fewer or none.
The Catholic bishops are the biggest supporters of the destructive, larcenous welfare state from hell. And thus leftist politicians. Come election time they tell their flock not to vote for abortion. Too late, bishops. You’ve already sold folks on the party of death.
Envy is a sin. Jealousy is a sin. Demanding even more of other people’s money is greed. Looking to the government to meet your needs and solve your problems is idolatry, the worst of all.


29 posted on 11/13/2012 11:20:19 AM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

All right.

Nineteen voted for Romney, did the others vote?


30 posted on 11/13/2012 11:20:57 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Dutchboy88

Are you inferring that unless you vote for Romney you are pro-abortion?


31 posted on 11/13/2012 11:21:13 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: sitetest

There is just plain stupidity, and there is the culpable stupidity that flows from intellectual sloth.


32 posted on 11/13/2012 11:22:24 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

In the election of 2012, yes. The general election, unlike the primaries, offers only a binary choice.


33 posted on 11/13/2012 11:25:32 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Dear Arthur McGowan,

In a group of 52 seminarians, I'd take a wag (wild-assed guess) that a third of them fall into the first group: just plain stupid. I've had pastors that fall into this category. Roughly a third are either intellectually slothful or just plain evil. I've also had some pastors like this. The other roughly a third voted for Gov. Romney. Fortunately, I've also had pastors like this.

The result doesn't surprise me much. I guess that's sad.


sitetest

34 posted on 11/13/2012 11:28:30 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Nonsense. The choice was between two pro-aborts, two lesser pro aborts and one prolifer.


35 posted on 11/13/2012 11:29:12 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
I assume we will not know if some of those who didn't vote for Romney abstained because he favors permission of abortion murder for rapeincestlifeofmother. I have some friends who likewise abstained, even though they are patriotic Conservatives. I disagree with them, but I understand their stance.

I called the seminary, and the point person on this is Joseph Zwelling at 646-794-2997, but he won't be back in his office until Monday.
36 posted on 11/13/2012 11:31:17 AM PST by jobim (.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Is it your opinion that voting for Romney is voting pro-life? Not everyone holds that opinion.


37 posted on 11/13/2012 11:31:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: JCBreckenridge
"Are you inferring that unless you vote for Romney you are pro-abortion?"

Is that what the article said? And, it's "...implying", not "inferring".

38 posted on 11/13/2012 11:42:03 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Arthur McGowan
"Why would I leave the Church founded by Jesus Christ?"

I have no idea and have no idea why others I've seen in your position who make the same sort of point have already done so. But they have, and they've do so by the millions both to the self worship of Protestantism and the heresy of the SSPX crowd.

The Church does have a rational option, it's Jesus Christ and Him crucified preached with no further reference whatsoever to social doctrine both at every parish and in the seminaries. Social doctrine and true Christian social action will take care of itself when the focus is placed back on Christ and His Church rather than society.

Do that and Christ will do the heavy lifting of dragging the sheep back into the fold and separating the wheat from the chaff when the sheep refuse to return to the fold.

39 posted on 11/13/2012 11:43:37 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: all the best
Envy is a sin. Jealousy is a sin. Demanding even more of other people’s money is greed. Looking to the government to meet your needs and solve your problems is idolatry, the worst of all.

Good summation. Add stealing to the list.

40 posted on 11/13/2012 11:44:03 AM PST by what's up
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To: Arthur McGowan
The Majority of Cardinal Dolan's Seminarians Are Pro-Abortion Oblivious to the Culture War

I think that's the correct interpretation of the data which you've presented. Who knows what they think about abortion. It's a stretch to extrapolate candidate preference to a positive choice in favor of abortion which is what your headline says.

I'm fairly certain that if you asked them, they'd say they were not pro-abortion but were looking at the "bigger picture"; i.e. Cardinal Bernardin's flawed "seamless garment" theology.

IOW, they're clueless.

41 posted on 11/13/2012 11:46:03 AM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: marshmallow
Good point.
42 posted on 11/13/2012 11:57:48 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Hearsay + No source = BS.

“An eyewitness” somehow gathered all that information on 52 seminarians? Really?

Not buying.


43 posted on 11/13/2012 12:06:39 PM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: nickcarraway

A general election is a binary choice. In such a case, voting for the lesser of two evils is the morally correct choice.

Refusing to vote, or voting for someone who has no chance of winning is a narcissistic choice, for those who place self-centered preening about their own “purity” above voting for the best available real-world choice.


44 posted on 11/13/2012 12:14:34 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: ScottinVA

A debate is held. Then the audience votes. You are saying that it is impossible for an eyewitness to remember what the vote was?


45 posted on 11/13/2012 12:16:04 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: marshmallow

In the election of 2012, Obama was the MOST pro-abortion, anti-Catholic candidate. Voting for the most pro-abortion candidate in an election is what I MEAN by the term “pro-abortion.”


46 posted on 11/13/2012 12:18:49 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Dutchboy88

Actually it’s infer.

Yes or no, Dutchboy?


47 posted on 11/13/2012 12:24:48 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

All I know for sure is that my family and I, my fellow Latin Mass parishioners, our priests, bishop and pope are all aghast and opposed to every single abortion and any other atrocity that occurs against Jesus’ precious children, born or unborn.


48 posted on 11/13/2012 12:28:24 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: marshmallow

I appreciate that you have offered a small ray of hope (if being “clueless” can offer hope!)to this dismal thread.

I am old, so you will have to excuse me for dating myself; but when I was young, many years ago, we called this kind of information “hanging our dirty linen out for the neighbors to see.”

I don’t say that we Catholics should ignore our problems. Far from it. I’ve done my share of confronting them in my lifetime.

But I do see a value in keeping a certain discretion and prudence in regard to opening it all up to those of an antagonistic or secular position.


49 posted on 11/13/2012 12:39:13 PM PST by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: JCBreckenridge

The word should have been “implying.”


50 posted on 11/13/2012 12:46:22 PM PST by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a baby's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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