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Lds leaders concede they worship, speak about, believe & acknowledge a different Jesus [Part II]
Colofornian (Vanity) | Nov. 13, 2012 | Colofornian

Posted on 11/13/2012 5:13:31 AM PST by Colofornian

Sometimes, cult members -- like Mormons -- can describe a pretty "orthodox" sounding Jesus Christ.

There's some things we actually -- really -- agree with Lds leaders in their general premises.

Oh sure, Mormonism has indeed distorted the one True Jesus and twisted Him into an entirely different Being! (And just like a Nazi twisted "cross" is no cross at all, a twisted "Jesus" is no genuine Jesus at all!)

But that still doesn't take away from statements where we can find agreement -- like when Mormon leaders readily concede that they worship, speak about, believe and acknowledge an entirely different Jesus from the Christ of the Christian world!

CHART I: WHERE WE 'AGREE' WITH MORMON LEADERS:

Lds speak about, believe, acknowledge, worship, and trust a 'different' Christ than most Christians do

Lds Source Lds Leaders Say: 'Different Christ' Bible indicates: 'Different Christ'
Lds 'prophet' Gordon B. Hinckley: Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)

Hinckley again: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.)

"The FACT IS, we do NOT depend on the Bible or on traditional biblical interpretations for our theology." (BYU professor Robert L. Millet, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, p. 198). Did you notice the "WE" of Millet's statement? -- and that there wasn't a storm or even a peep of protest from either Mormon leaders or Mormon grassroots objecting to this Millet statement...and I would guestimate that lack of protest encompasses ALL FReeper Mormons! In stark contrast, the traditional Christ within Christianity is...
...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons";
He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom;
He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past;
His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy;
His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement."
He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...
Lds official publication Ensign; BYU Press; Lds curricula - Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide “It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26; "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) (See comparison charts to follow); Christians worship a Christ who can receive direct prayer (Acts 7:59; Mormons even militate vs. their own "scripture" on this -- see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26)
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). The Christ of Christianity is 'mythical' per an Lds "apostle"? And Mormons imagine that they haven't somehow wielded a direct attack upon Christians worldwide? May I remind Mormons that Lds continued to publish McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" book? (The Mormon church got ahold of the direct copyright, acquiring it from Bookcraft, and then publishing it under its direct ownership umbrella -- Deseret Book Publishing -- in 1993) McConkie's book was published/republished under 7, count 'em 7, Mormon "prophets" (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson). Only McKay conveyed strongly that alterations needs to be forthcoming after the initial edition, and revisions were made...but not enough to keep from embarrassing the Mormon faithful ever since!

Summary bottom-line:
Mormon official publications say they worship a different Christ...
...the Mormon "prophet" said they speak about, believe and acknowledge a different Christ...
...Most Christians say they worship, speak of and trust another Jesus...
...So. We would seem to be on the same page...so why the few stragglers who are out of harmony???

[STAY TUNED FOR PART III]


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bigot; bloodatonement; differentjesus; giveitarest; inman; lds; mormonjesus; mormons; obsession; romneylostmoveon; vanity
For Part I, see: Will 'any ole' 'Jesus' do? (Two Mormon leaders clamor 'no'; and I agree with that!) [Part 1]

From the article: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The FACT IS, we do NOT depend on the Bible or on traditional biblical interpretations for our theology." (BYU professor Robert L. Millet, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, p. 198).

From the article: In stark contrast, the traditional Christ within Christianity is...
...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons";
He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom;
He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past;
His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy;
His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement."
He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...

1 posted on 11/13/2012 5:13:35 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

And people wonder why evangelicals stayed home. One corrupts the Constitution and one corrupts the Gospel.


2 posted on 11/13/2012 6:12:46 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: Colofornian

I worship God. He has Son named Jesus...........


3 posted on 11/13/2012 6:13:45 AM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Colofornian

Oh goody! Different Christian faiths laying into one another based on their guesses as to who-did-what 2000 years ago. Let’s start a war!


4 posted on 11/13/2012 6:24:15 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: Colofornian

Will any old Jesus do?

I have been to several Churches that have so called pictures of Jesus portraying him as a womanish looking man or maybe not a man which is against scripture, not that i have anything at all against the looks of a woman, i like them very much, but a man that looks like a woman, no, no.

But it is said that the picture was painted by a homosexual which is self explaining so why would any one worship an image of that kind when there is no scripture to back it up not to mention the fact that it goes against the very nature of God and man.

Unless they just want to worship something and don,t care what, or they want to be involved in a club of some kind which seems to be the case, and in that case the moose or elks would have the same affect in their lives.

As far as Mormons are concerned most of them are like other Church goers, they probably do not do much reading of the scriptures themselves, they let some one else do it for them and interpret it the way that suits them.


5 posted on 11/13/2012 7:08:02 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Colofornian

THX 1138
Wonder how many people will realize this discussion is in the religion forum.


6 posted on 11/13/2012 7:20:46 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Teacher317
Different Christian faiths laying into one another based on their guesses as to who-did-what 2000 years ago.

The apostle Paul was warning believers -- night & day for 3 years -- about false shepherds distorting the truth as would-be leaders of the church of Ephesus...he even labeled them as they were... "savage wolves"...

So, hey, that's the history of THE Christian church...

I mean, if you're children were teen Republicans, and some Dems were targeting them, would you object if somebody came to their side as advocates? Or would you say, "Oh goody! Different political parties laying into one another based on their guesses as to who-did-what in the last 4 yrs and who-will-do-what in the next 4 yrs. Let's start a political war!" ???

7 posted on 11/13/2012 7:23:53 AM PST by Colofornian (“...those outside the Church who say Lds do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don't."-GH)
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To: All
Correct Part I link
8 posted on 11/13/2012 7:32:47 AM PST by Colofornian (“...those outside the Church who say Lds do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don't."-GH)
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To: crusty old prospector
And people wonder why evangelicals stayed home. One corrupts the Constitution and one corrupts the Gospel.

Well framed

9 posted on 11/13/2012 7:34:13 AM PST by Colofornian (“...those outside the Church who say Lds do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don't."-GH)
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To: Teacher317

You could have a point if this thread where about different Christan denominations, however mormonISM is not Christianity, so your point is void.


10 posted on 11/13/2012 8:29:29 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Red Badger; Colofornian

I worship God. He has Son named Jesus...........

- - - - - -
Is Jesus God? Is he the Son of God because of physical sexual relations with Mary?

Because Mormons teach that Jesus is a ‘sub-god’ and only one of millions of Gods and that God and Mary had sex.

Want quotes from LDS leaders?


11 posted on 11/13/2012 10:06:33 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: ravenwolf

As far as Mormons are concerned most of them are like other Church goers, they probably do not do much reading of the scriptures themselves, they let some one else do it for them and interpret it the way that suits them.

- - - - - - -
Even more so. In Mormonism, the focus is on feelings, they are discouraged from thinking for themselves or researching.

Many (if not most) Christian pastors I know encourage their flock to study the Bible and research.

Also in Mormonism there is a famous quote “When the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done”. I thought myself out of Mormonism.

When I left Mormonism, I ended up getting a degree in Biblical Studies, in part to unlearn what I had been taught in that cult.


12 posted on 11/13/2012 10:10:53 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Teacher317

Mormons aren’t Christians. Christians agree on the basic (Salvific) doctrines, Mormons deny those.

Been there, done that.


13 posted on 11/13/2012 10:12:17 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: svcw

Seriously. You would think the upper right hand corner was hidden or something.


14 posted on 11/13/2012 10:13:25 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

What the LDS believes or doesn’t believe is of no concern to me. I believe in God and His Word. There is no need for another testament............


15 posted on 11/13/2012 11:10:51 AM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

What the LDS believes or doesn’t believe is of no concern to me. I believe in God and His Word. There is no need for another testament............

- - - - -
I agree there is no need for another Testament, however I disagree that what the LDS believe is no concern to you. As a Christian, you should WANT to warn others that are following a false gospel.

My point in asking those questions, is what you posted a Mormon would automatically respond with “we believe that too”, but they define it and mean it VERY VERY differently than you do and they know it, they use that assumption that you and they mean the same things, to lie to you about what they believe and get people to either think they are ‘just another Christian group’ or to leave them alone - saying as you did, it is no concern. That way they are free to lie and twist and defraud others into joining their religion - and following their false Gospel.

I love Mormons too much (and I still have several Mormon friends) to let them skip merrily into hell without telling them the truth.

Now, back to my question? Do you believe that Jesus is God’s literal son because God and Mary had sex? Or do you, like me, find that teaching blasphemy?


16 posted on 11/13/2012 12:06:46 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

Mary has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus is God’s firstborn Son. He was God’s Firstborn millenia before Mary existed, before Abraham existed, before Adam existed, before ANYTHING existed.........


17 posted on 11/13/2012 12:32:17 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

Again, I agree with you, but that isn’t what Mormonism teaches. They teach that God and Mary had sex and that Mary was one (just one) of God’s many wives.

Don’t you think that type of blasphemy should be responded too by Christians?


18 posted on 11/13/2012 12:42:50 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Teacher317
Oh goody! Different Christian faiths laying into one another based on their guesses as to who-did-what 2000 years ago.

There is something relative to this thread that ALL Christian denominations agree on, in view of your post it seems like you would be dying to know what that universal view is in regards to a Mormon thread.

ALL Christian denominations agree that Mormonism is not Christian, that it is an entirely different, non-Christian religion started by Joseph Smith.

Presbyterian, Catholic, Lutheran, Southern Baptist, Greek Orthodox, Methodist, Evangelical, non-Evangelical, they all agree that Mormonism is not a part of Christianity but an entirely different religion of it's own.

19 posted on 11/13/2012 1:06:08 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: reaganaut

Blasphemy is an invention of man, not God...........


20 posted on 11/13/2012 1:19:57 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

Blasphemy is an invention of man, not God...........

- - - —
You may need to check your Bible on that, God doesn’t like blasphemy or false gods.

And it is interesting you dodged the question.


21 posted on 11/13/2012 1:30:15 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

Matthew 12:31
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

It is not my place to judge others as to what constitutes ‘blasphemy’. That will come at the appointed time.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy, yet he forgave them..........


22 posted on 11/13/2012 1:38:42 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

hum?
God would differ, with you.


23 posted on 11/13/2012 1:56:11 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Red Badger

ah, Do you know what that verse is saying?


24 posted on 11/13/2012 1:58:29 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: svcw

Blasphemy against The Holy Spirit, the very Life giving force of the universe, the very essence of God will not be forgiven....Everything else is forgivable......


25 posted on 11/13/2012 2:01:23 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

Yea, and mormonISM blasphemes the Holy Spirit - it is an issue.


26 posted on 11/13/2012 2:09:04 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: svcw

It is an issue, but I will not be the one to hand out the punishment...........


27 posted on 11/13/2012 2:20:49 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Red Badger

The Bible is a guide for that.


28 posted on 11/13/2012 10:00:24 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Red Badger; svcw; Elsie

Oh for crying out loud, no one is asking you to mete out punishment.

But if you are a Christian, it is you DUTY to fight false teachings and false christs and to warn others.

Do I need to quote some Bible verses for you on this?


29 posted on 11/13/2012 10:02:45 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Colofornian; Saundra Duffy
Lds leaders concede they worship, speak about, believe & acknowledge a different Jesus

So does Sandy!

30 posted on 11/14/2012 9:20:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: crusty old prospector

I wonder who Hobson voted for?


31 posted on 11/14/2012 9:22:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
Do I need to quote some Bible verses for you on this?

You don't need to; but I WANT to!!


 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



32 posted on 11/14/2012 9:25:36 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

You mean James Dobson? I never heard if he endorsed Romney.


33 posted on 11/14/2012 10:11:18 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: Elsie

bookmark


34 posted on 11/14/2012 10:48:58 AM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: crusty old prospector

No, Hobson.

He had a CHOICE....


35 posted on 11/14/2012 2:19:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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