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White Horse Prophecy [Mitt's Loss brings obvious conclusion that Mormon leaders falsely prophesied]
MessagetoEagle.com ^ | Nov. 8, 2012 | Dustin Naef

Posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:09 AM PST by Colofornian

MessageToEagle.com - Normally, as a matter of personal preference I don’t get into politics, but when we have a presidential campaign that begins to cross over into the strange twilight zone of religious weirdness that centers on the one person who’s going to control the most powerful government and army on the face of the earth, well, it brings up some unusual scenarios to wonder about.

It is being reported in the media today that former presidential candidate Mitt Romney only wrote a victory speech for Election Day; presumably a harried, last minute scramble to revise his speech was being suggested as the reason behind the Romney-Ryan campaigns’ sluggish reluctance to concede their party’s unthinkable defeat.

Electoral Votes:

Barack Obama: 303 Mitt Romney: 206

Curiously, one has to wonder whether it was Romney’s obsession with polls and tracking data that lead to this overextension of hubris; his unshakable faith that he would be the next president of the United States—or could it have been Romney’s Mormon faith itself that lead him to believe victory was all but assured by some divine mandate?

Ascending to the office of the presidency has always been a coveted part of the mission of the Mormon Church, which began with its founder Joseph Smith, who as a young man experienced a close encounter with a being from another planet named Moroni, who descended from the heavens and instructed Smith to found a new religion (as seen on History Channel’s Ancient Aliens, S3E01)—today, in Ufology, such a happenstance would likely be classified as a contactee CE5 level event.

“I saw a pillar of light . . . which descended gradually until it fell upon me” – Joseph Smith.

In 1844 Joseph Smith, an apparent UFO contactee and the founder of the Mormon Church, brazenly launched his own political campaign for President of the United States. His stated goal was to overthrow the U.S. Constitution, and bring about a Mormon theocracy to the Nation.

Smith’s candidacy was always long shot, but that didn’t stop him from rallying his people to help clinch his destiny to be an independent commander in chief of the “army of God”.

Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” He foresaw the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong”—a leader who would “set in order the house of God”.

Smith’s call for a “theodemocracy where God and his people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” evidently did not sit well with the majority of voters in the United States, and brought down a lot of bad press and hostility upon the Mormons. Smith’s presidential campaign was cut short while he was sitting in jail facing charges of treason and inciting a riot; an angry mob broke into the jailhouse and brought him to justice by shooting him to death.

Out of this early chapter of U.S. history developed what has became known in the Mormon Church as the “White Horse Prophecy”—a controversial prediction that someday a great Mormon leader, who, at a time when the U.S. Constitution “hangs like a thread as fine as a silk fiber”, would be elected President.

I know a little bit about Mormonism and their beliefs. I grew up and lived in Salt Lake City most all my life, I sat through many days of LDS seminary at public schools, and I also attended a private Mormon school as a teenager.

My family has roots in the Mormon pioneer heritage and early history. My ancestors, the Neff’s, came to the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. My great-great-great-grandfather John Neff, Sr. settled Neff’s canyon in East Millcreek, Utah. He was also a close friend of Brigham Young and accompanied him into Northern Utah to proselyte amongst the Native Americans there. His daughter, Mary Ann Neff, married the notorious Mormon gunslinger and Utah folkhero Orrin Porter Rockwell.

Orrin Porter Rockwell was one scary-looking son of a bitch . . .

Rockwell served as a loyal henchman to Church founders Joseph Smith Jr. and Brigham Young—and was affectionately nick-named ‘Ol’ Port’ the ‘Destroying Angel of Mormondom’.

In his despicable and sordid history, Ol’ Port was intimately connected to political assassinations, revenge-killings, and gruesome Indian massacres. He’s praised for having avenged the Prophet Joseph Smith’s murder by shooting one of the conspirators with his musket while riding astride a horse.

There have been a few failed attempts in various movies and books to elevate the psychopath to the status of a gritty American hero of the old west —fortunately, none of them have really stuck.

A few of the many curious tenants of Mormonism I heard growing up in Salt Lake City were as follows . . .

*Cain, the killer of his brother Abel, is alive and wanders the earth, wearing no clothing but being covered by hair, and that LDS Church apostle David W. Patten encountered him once; and that reported sightings of Bigfoot can be explained by this story.

*Blacks were neutral in the War in Heaven, and that is why they were not allowed to hold the Mormon priesthood before 1978.

*Albert Einstein supposedly once said that LDS Church apostle James E. Talmage was the smartest man he had ever met.

*The Second Coming was imminent, and when I was age 25 I would be living in the “Last Days” (I’m in my 40’s now).

And here’s where Mitt Romney’s presidential candidacy enters the picture—

I remember my 7th grade LDS seminary teacher sermonizing about the “signs” of the ‘Last Days’.

One of his favorite ‘signs’ that he liked to talk about was that a great Mormon leader would be elected President of the United States, and this would be a major indication that the Last Days were imminent, e.g. the White Horse Prophecy.

Some say that the White Horse Prophecy was written by Joseph Smith himself, while others dispute that claim. According to the Salt Lake City Tribune:

The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy. “You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed,” the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. “It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.”

Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government.

“Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion,” the prophecy says.

Publicly, the Mormon Church doesn’t officially endorse the ‘White Horse Prophecy’ as doctrine, and will deny anything to do with it (just as Romney has whenever it’s been brought up)—however, there’s a telling piece of Mormon dogma that people may find disturbing. It was set in place by Joseph Smith himself, and is referred to as “lying for the Lord.”

As an act of self preservation or to protect the Mormon Church, it is doctrinally permissive to lie about your beliefs or intentions. In other words the ends justify the means. Smith did it with regard to his polygamous lifestyle. Brigham Young did it when he claimed that only Paiute Indians were responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Over and over again, Mitt Romney marginalized his devout Mormon background, and downplayed its significance throughout his entire campaign. But in the 1970’s the ‘Cougar Club’ at Brigham Young University declared their admiration of Mitt and predicted that he’d be the president of the United States one day. According to an article on Salon.com:

…the Cougar Club — the all male, all white social club at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City (blacks were excluded from full membership in the Mormon church until 1978) — was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon president of the United States. “If not Mitt, then who?” was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the church’s founder, Joseph Smith Jr., which Romney has avidly sought to realize.

With all this in mind, it’s hard not to look back and wonder . . .

Could Mitt Romney have been intending to run the United States as a Mormon theocratic state, as fortold by his Church’s prophet Joseph Smith?

Would a President Romney have executed the will of the people of the United States, and answered to the people—or would he only answer to God via the hierarchy of the Mormon Church?

What if a “revelation” or “vision” was received by the current President of the LDS Church (or Prophet), and passed on to ‘President Romney’ as a directive from God?–would Romney have executed that directive, even if it had gone against the will of the U.S. people, or the World?

Thankfully, this is probably one mystery we’ll never know the answer to . . .

Written by Dustin Naef - MessageToEagle.com Contributor

About the author: Dustin Naef has been a student of ancient mysteries and the paranormal for as long as he can remember. He has worked in screenwriting, graphic design and illustration, produced and designed video best-selling games, and is currently involved in the production of a film documentary and book about the mysteries surrounding Mount Shasta, California.

If you wish to follow Dustin Naef: Dustin's website: http://www.dustinnaef.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustinnaef.mountshasta https://www.facebook.com/MountShastaFilm


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Eastern Religions; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: byu; falseprophecy; idiotsdidntvote4mitt; lds; ldschurch; mormons; romney2012; romneyandgod; whitehorseprophecy
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This was written by a descendent of early Mormons (one of his pioneer family's daughter married Joseph Smith's bodyguard, Porter Rockwell, a mass murderer known as one of the "avenging angels."

From the article: Normally, as a matter of personal preference I don’t get into politics, but when we have a presidential campaign that begins to cross over into the strange twilight zone of religious weirdness that centers on the one person who’s going to control the most powerful government and army on the face of the earth, well, it brings up some unusual scenarios to wonder about... It is being reported in the media today that former presidential candidate Mitt Romney only wrote a victory speech for Election Day; presumably a harried, last minute scramble to revise his speech was being suggested as the reason behind the Romney-Ryan campaigns’ sluggish reluctance to concede their party’s unthinkable defeat. Curiously, one has to wonder whether it was Romney’s obsession with polls and tracking data that lead to this overextension of hubris; his unshakable faith that he would be the next president of the United States—or could it have been Romney’s Mormon faith itself that lead him to believe victory was all but assured by some divine mandate? Ascending to the office of the presidency has always been a coveted part of the mission of the Mormon Church, which began with its founder Joseph Smith, who as a young man experienced a close encounter with a being from another planet named Moroni, who descended from the heavens and instructed Smith to found a new religion (as seen on History Channel’s Ancient Aliens, S3E01)—today, in Ufology, such a happenstance would likely be classified as a contactee CE5 level event. “I saw a pillar of light . . . which descended gradually until it fell upon me” – Joseph Smith. In 1844 Joseph Smith, an apparent UFO contactee and the founder of the Mormon Church, brazenly launched his own political campaign for President of the United States. His stated goal was to overthrow the U.S. Constitution, and bring about a Mormon theocracy to the Nation.

From the article: I remember my 7th grade LDS seminary teacher sermonizing about the “signs” of the ‘Last Days’. One of his favorite ‘signs’ that he liked to talk about was that a great Mormon leader would be elected President of the United States, and this would be a major indication that the Last Days were imminent, e.g. the White Horse Prophecy. Some say that the White Horse Prophecy was written by Joseph Smith himself, while others dispute that claim. According to the Salt Lake City Tribune: The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy. “You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed,” the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. “It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.” Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government. “Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion,” the prophecy says. Publicly, the Mormon Church doesn’t officially endorse the ‘White Horse Prophecy’ as doctrine, and will deny anything to do with it (just as Romney has whenever it’s been brought up)—however, there’s a telling piece of Mormon dogma that people may find disturbing. It was set in place by Joseph Smith himself, and is referred to as “lying for the Lord.”

Well, the Lds church has been all over the map on this...yes, it has of late been downplaying the prophecy, that wasn't always the case:

Lds General Conference coverage of White Horse prophecy:

October, 1912? Check (by Lds "prophet" Joseph F. Smith -- nephew of Joseph Smith)
October, 1922? Check
October, 1928? Check
April, 1933? Check
April, 1942? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Harold B. Lee)
October, 1942? Check
April, 1946? Check
April, 1948? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)
April, 1949? Check
April, 1950? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith)
October, 1952? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Harold B. Lee)
October, 1961? check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)
April, 1963? check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)

That's over a dozen references in about 50 years' time!

Sure a lot of General Conference "to do" 'bout White-Horse 'nothin'ness' - eh, Joseph????

So, what's the 'truth' about Lds leaders propping up the White Horse Prophecy, which now seems quite obvious is a failed prophecy?!!!

(Keep reading upcoming posts)

1 posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:18 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
The question is: Has the Lds church officially endorsed (in the past) the White Horse Prophecy?

Note this quote: “LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would ‘hang by a thread’ and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, ‘When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth.;: - Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Selections from Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1995, “The Church and Society,” p. 122

“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would “hang by a thread” and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, “When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men” (JD 21:8). To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the “iniquity,” or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency.” - Encyclopedia of Mormonism, v. 1, p. 1992

The Ludlow edited Encyclopedia of Mormonism listed above is published by the Deseret Book Co. Guess who owns the Deseret Book Co.? (That's right, the Mormon church!)...which also owns the Deseret News, which ALSO promoted this prophesy in quote below (Preston Nibley, official Lds church historian!)

“... the prophet Joseph Smith did make the marvelous prediction that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to some day save the Constitution of the United States.” - Preston Nibley, LDS church historian, Deseret News, December 15, 1948; quoted in The White Horse Prophecy, 1993, p. 65

2 posted on 11/10/2012 8:00:01 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: All
How were Mormons in the 1970s -- at the time that Mitt Romney was at BYU -- absorbing Lds leaders' statements about the White Horse Prophecy?

From the article: ... in the 1970’s the ‘Cougar Club’ at Brigham Young University declared their admiration of Mitt and predicted that he’d be the president of the United States one day. According to an article on Salon.com: …the Cougar Club — the all male, all white social club at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City (blacks were excluded from full membership in the Mormon church until 1978) — was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon president of the United States. “If not Mitt, then who?” was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the church’s founder, Joseph Smith Jr., which Romney has avidly sought to realize. With all this in mind, it’s hard not to look back and wonder . . .

Ya gotta know that the 1970s BYU Cougar Club was only embracing generations of Lds teachings on the White Horse Prophecy!

Look what BYU president Ernest L. Wilkinson said in a 1966 speech:
* “In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU President (1951-1971), BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7,)

* “Now what has happened in our country during the time we have been plunging toward socialism? Are we actually at that point where the Constitution may be hanging by a single thread and we need to step in to save it?”- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 9

Five years before that, a Utah senator gave a BYU speech and said: “... if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may ‘hang by a thread’ it would be because of the immense powers given to the President and his opportunity for their abuse. Let us... resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints. - Senator Wallace F. Bennett, Utah, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13

And even aside from BYU speeches, this had been an ongoing theme in the early 1960s at Lds general conferences -- from eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, who had been part of the Eisenhower administration:

* “… the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction…. It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70

* "It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70

* “The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won’t care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113

3 posted on 11/10/2012 8:01:14 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: All; reaganaut
What about earlier Lds General Conference references to the White Horse Prophecy? Here are those General Conference references (per Reaganaut) from 1912--> Early 1950s:

“Joseph Smith... predicted that the time would come, ‘when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11

“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11

“My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.” - Apostle Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40

“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108

“I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127

“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread.... He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108

“You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.” - Apostle J. Reuben Clark, Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58

“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. . . . if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.” - Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171

“[Joseph Smith] said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.”- Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171

“Joseph Smith... [said] the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church?... ‘We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18

“But beyond all that, the Latter-day Saints have a responsibility, that may be better understood when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that ‘the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread, and that this people, the sons of Zion, would rise up and save it from threatened destruction.’ (J. of D., Vol. 7:15) I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy, in the light of the declaration of the prophets of the Book of Mormon times, who declared that this land was a choice land above all other lands, and would be free from bondage and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of this land, even our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12)” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87

“It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18

“[Joseph Smith] said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true.... ‘Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.’” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159

“I must not take more time but to add this: The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.) Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159

[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

“[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

“I would like to add this in conclusion. It is said that President Brigham Young, many years ago, made this statement: When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for Mormon elders to save it from utter destruction: and they will step forth and do it. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:182, Feb. 18, 1855.) This is recorded in the Journal of Discourses and I presume it is accurate, but however it may be, is it not a possibility, that this Church, in its great leadership and in the power that will come to it in advocating the things that are divine and are right and true as for example the great welfare program, is not possible that when we as a nation shall have exhausted our resources—and we can well do that if we do not turn about—when we have we have reached that point is it not possible that to us will those who are not of us look for guidance and we will be held up as a people who are pointing an economic way that will mean for the economic and spiritual salvation and blessing of our people.” - High Priest Clifford E. Young, Conference Report, April 1949, pp. 75-76

“It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—‘The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.’ Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

4 posted on 11/10/2012 8:02:11 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

An ex-Mormon friend of mine tells me that the Temple Garments make great oil rags.


5 posted on 11/10/2012 8:02:33 AM PST by polkajello
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To: All
From the article: What if a “revelation” or “vision” was received by the current President of the LDS Church (or Prophet), and passed on to ‘President Romney’ as a directive from God?–would Romney have executed that directive, even if it had gone against the will of the U.S. people, or the World? Thankfully, this is probably one mystery we’ll never know the answer to. . .

Lds Leader Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) By contrast: Roman Catholic leader (like a Pope or John F. Kennedy) Any similar statements made by a Pope or Kennedy
Mitt Romney as POTUS??? Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] Kennedy made no similar vows to the Catholic church that Romney has made to the Mormon church No comparative vow
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) No parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Orson Hyde President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Heber J. Grant Lds 'Prophet' #7 "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Harold B. Lee Lds 'Prophet' #11 ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Spencer Kimball Lds 'Prophet' #12 "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Ezra Taft Benson Lds 'Prophet' #13 Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #5 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #9 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #10 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence
B.H. Roberts LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence

6 posted on 11/10/2012 8:03:49 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian
An old family legend from our folks in East Central Oklahoma is that they were leaving Arkansas on horseback going West and they didn't have a good map.

The two little girls who were prophets came up with a message from God who told them to 'Cut the horse loose' So they did and the horse took them to wherever it was they were going to live in Indian territory.

One of the 5 Civilized Tribes upon leaving Mexico to go to the same exact place had a couple of prophets and they had the same message.

That's roughly the same sort of prophecy as the White Horse Prophecy and probably has a simlar source, and a remarkably similar timetable ~ too much jimsen weed in the milk most likely, or MJ, or totally unregulated peyote buds.

lots of things out there on the various Mormon, Santa Fe and Southern trails ~ yup ~ just all sorts of stuff. Eat what you killed; smoke or chaw what you wanted ~ a regular man's life on the road.

7 posted on 11/10/2012 8:17:00 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Colofornian

Convincing people that Mormonism is wrong is like trying to convince some Christians that vote for Obama is wrong.

I’ve laid out the case on Facebook, through just news articles and people don’t want to hear it. They didn’t want to believe the person who they voted for was wrong let alone corrupt. If people don’t want to know the truth, what else is there to do?


8 posted on 11/10/2012 8:20:14 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian
I guess they're still looking for their White Horse.

It's all pretty crazy. You've done a good job of demonstrating that much. Before I began reading your posts, I was really very ignorant of the LDS history, philosophy and traditions. I had nothing more than a vague picture of Joseph Smith, Bringem Young and all the women they exploited.

So, thank you for all the light you've shed on this bizarre cult.

9 posted on 11/10/2012 8:22:36 AM PST by Tau Food (Praise God. Trust God.)
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To: Colofornian

I’m surprised that Harry Reid didn’t run for president earlier in his career to fulfill the supposed prophecy.


10 posted on 11/10/2012 8:24:23 AM PST by windcliff
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To: Colofornian

Just Sayin'...

11 posted on 11/10/2012 8:25:41 AM PST by Errant
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To: Colofornian

Religion will be religion, it means nothing except power and of course politics is also religion, we have had a catholic president and the world never came to an end even though many people thought it would.

If this nation can survive a socialist illegal alien it can survive a Mormon, yet if it can or not remains to be seen.


12 posted on 11/10/2012 8:28:49 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Colofornian

Okay, I didn’t really care for Romney’ Mormonism, either, but it really would have been worse than four more years of Obama.

Okay, Lord, I put my trust in you. You may have saved us from this bullet, but please, please, give us some help with this foe we currently have! I’m really putting my faith in you, God!


13 posted on 11/10/2012 8:29:17 AM PST by Thorliveshere
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To: windcliff; All
I’m surprised that Harry Reid didn’t run for president earlier in his career to fulfill the supposed prophecy.

(Well, maybe he could run & save the Lds leaders from false prophecies, after all...and then we'd have an abundance of Mormons putting their Mormonism first and rallying around him, just like they did when Harry Reid spoke @ BYU in 2007!)
Reid Gets Warm Reception at BYU

From the above linked article, written by the Lds church owned Deseret News: At the end of his speech, Reid earned a standing ovation from a small percentage of the crowd and applause from the rest.

(Reid spoke to over 4,000 on campus)

Btw, Reid told BYU students: "I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."

14 posted on 11/10/2012 8:36:19 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

they obviously had the wrong guy. It must be Mark Udall. he is an enviromentalist, so has a natural interest in bigfoot.

Udall ‘16.

http://www.Udall2016.com/


15 posted on 11/10/2012 8:36:43 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (campaigned for local conservatives only)
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To: Thorliveshere
but it really would have been worse than four more years of Obama?

Should have been a question mark on that.
16 posted on 11/10/2012 8:36:59 AM PST by Thorliveshere
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To: ravenwolf
...we have had a catholic president and the world never came to an end even though many people thought it would.

(The chart in post #6 covers this...Kennedy & the popes of his era didn't make either the vows Romney made nor the overreaches the way Lds leaders have)

17 posted on 11/10/2012 8:38:49 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian

someday a great Mormon leader, who, at a time when the U.S. Constitution “hangs like a thread as fine as a silk fiber”, would be elected President.
__________________________________________

Willard and other Mormns would believe now is that time..

From June 1844, when Joey Smith “was sitting in jail facing charges of treason and inciting a riot; an angry mob broke into the jailhouse and brought him to justice by shooting him to death” and now, amendments to the Constitution would be rated by the Mormons as needing ‘saving’ or ‘restoration’

From 1844 to 1978 to 2012 there have been several changes that do not sit well with the philosopies of Joey Smith or Mormon religious doctrines..

The world view of the Mormons must have been turned upside down when the cursed black slaves were freed by Lincoln, given American citizenship and the vote and equal rights under the Constitution..

These changes to the Constitution were joined by others that must have made the Mormons nash their teeth and rage...in 1920 women, long considered as less than men by the male Mormons, received the right to vote, Tennessee being the final vote in a congress of only men..

and finally in 1978 15 years after the Civil Rights Act Mormon males were forced to accept black males as full members of the Mormon religion and make them priests and allow them to attend the temple rituals..

But while women have full rights under the Constituion, Mormon males STILL mamge to refuse them equal rights in their religion..

So maybe the time for that ‘one mighty and strong’ is not yet needed...

maybe it was not Willard...

But as George Romney was resigned to the fact it was not him and stepped aside for his son Willard Mitt Romney...

maybe its one of Willards FIVE sons...

all of them old enough to be president...

and HEY !!! failing one of those boys, Willard does have those SIX granddaughters...

and wouldnt that be something...

A Mormon woman as the highest office in the land...

over all those Mormon males..

Oh dear the Constitution just crashed to the ground...


18 posted on 11/10/2012 8:45:46 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

UFO’s, paranormal and sundry crackpottery?

You going reptilian next?


19 posted on 11/10/2012 8:51:02 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (I will fear no muslim))
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To: Thorliveshere

It was argued before the election that the winner was put there by God for a reason. If so, one could also assume Mitt was rejected by God...


20 posted on 11/10/2012 8:52:54 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: Colofornian

Nice try. You guys tried to tie Mitt to the so called “prophesy” that never was. Way to sow seeds that helped Obama win, you should be so proud.

This entire WHP thing has been debunked, and was strongly done so nearly a hundred years ago in General Conference no less.

What the WHP borrowed from was a truth that has yet to happen.

And as Ezra Taft Benson, President of the LDS Church explained so very clearly, the Constitution WON”T BE SAVED IN WASHINGTON.

The constitution hanging by a thread has yet to happen. If you don’t believe it, then you’re not opening your eyes to the Obamanation.

Here’s what an LDS President actually said a few years ago:

“I have faith that the Constitution will be saved as prophesied by Joseph Smith. BUT IT WILL NOT BE SAVED IN WASHINGTON. It will be saved by the citizens of this nation who love and cherish freedom. It will be saved by enlightened members of this Church—men and women who will subscribe to and abide by the principles of the Constitution.”

http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=87

You have it seems to be but one purpose here, to sew discord among patriots. Those who love freedom, as was attested to by the change in FR over the last few months will ignore your tripe, I can only hope.


21 posted on 11/10/2012 8:57:04 AM PST by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: Colofornian

Mormons did not fail. America failed and will suffer their stupidity. The real fall is near and will make Spain’s troubles look like nothing compared to our future.


22 posted on 11/10/2012 9:01:26 AM PST by Logical me
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To: Colofornian
The white horse false prophecy =
23 posted on 11/10/2012 9:03:17 AM PST by BlueDragon (going to change my name to "Nobody" then run for elective office)
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To: Colofornian

Romney underestimated the depth of evil that he was up against. In none of his projections of the battleground states, did he assume Obama and his drones would sink to such levels of voter fraud. Having just escaped Kalifornia earlier this year, voter fraud is how the corrupt government of the state of California, took over the state. It is out of control in Kalifornia. The only way Romney could have overcome the fraud, was to embrace the Chick-Fil-A electorate.


24 posted on 11/10/2012 9:04:39 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: Hardraade
UFO’s, paranormal and sundry crackpottery? You going reptilian next?

(Hey, this Naef character is a descendent from the Lds Pioneer Neff clan...who married into the Lds Porter Rockwell family...Rockwell being the body guard for both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young...Rockwell was pretty nutty as a paid Mormon assassin...so, of course, you'd expect some of that kind of nutty Mormon influence to rub off on people with extended family ties like that growing up in the Salt Lake City area -- people like Naef who was attending Mormon seminary classes...All that this Naef character was doing in this article was recounting what Mormons were teaching him in Utah...)

But let me guess: Here Mitt Romney firmly believed that he was "born" as a spirit on a planet near the star Kolob, and sent to this world to inhabit a body...and my accurate guess would be that you said nothing about that during Romney's run for Presidency.

How hypocritical of you: Naef's an occultic nobody, a spin-off from Mormonism's tall tales to other tall tales, and he gets your assessment here...but Romney's a famous would-be leader of the Free World...and you probably managed to overlook his supposed Kolobian "spirit birth," eh?

Why, if you said nothing about Romney's supposed "past," how convenient of you to suppress that.

So, how long have you had this problem of selective truth-telling? [Or perhaps, I'm off-base and you can show us all your FR references to Romney's Kolobian "past"]

25 posted on 11/10/2012 9:13:50 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Zakeet

Ping to #25


26 posted on 11/10/2012 9:15:42 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: Colofornian
As an act of self preservation or to protect the Mormon Church, it is doctrinally permissive to lie about your beliefs or intentions.

Sounds an awful lot like the Muslim doctrine of taqiyya. It's OK to lie to infidels to protect the Muslim faith.

27 posted on 11/10/2012 9:18:00 AM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: ravenwolf

America will survive. It’s just that it will now be known as the U.S.S.A.


28 posted on 11/10/2012 9:18:00 AM PST by ConjunctionJunction
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To: Tau Food; Colofornian
I was really very ignorant of the LDS history, philosophy and traditions.

Me, also!

I had nothing more than a vague picture of Joseph Smith, Bringem Young and all the women they exploited.

I plead more ignorant than you, I just thought of Donnie & Marie! That was my extend of Mormonism.

So, I joined you in thanking Colofornian for all the work and putting up with all the hate when enlightening us. As well as the other exMormons who were trashed while posting info on it.

29 posted on 11/10/2012 9:21:07 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Colofornian

I always wondered if this topic would come up. So much for the Mormon church riding in at the last minute to save the day huh?


30 posted on 11/10/2012 9:22:16 AM PST by ducttape45
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To: Thorliveshere

Maybe God already intervened with Hurricane Sandy.

As upset that I was about 0zero being re-elected, I felt a calm because I think God had intervened, so what happens now is in God’s hands and I am fine with that.


31 posted on 11/10/2012 9:22:16 AM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: justa-hairyape

I believe obama stole this election, no doubt about it.

“The thief comes only to STEAL and KILL and DESTROY; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” John 10:10

God did hear our prayers. However, He didn’t do it how I wanted and thought HE would. I liked my way of kicking the destroyer to the curb. But...

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. Is 55:8

God’s way are always bigger and His will is more perfect than ours.


32 posted on 11/10/2012 9:32:23 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Tennessee Nana

http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/statehood_and_the_progressive_era/womenssuffrageinutah.html


33 posted on 11/10/2012 9:35:04 AM PST by BlueMoose
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To: Ripliancum; Jim Robinson; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
You have it seems to be but one purpose here, to sew discord among patriots

Speaking of sowing "discord among patriots", there are 52,000 mormon missionaries (soon to be many more) going about the country "sowing discord" by claiming to Christians that their Christian faith is bogus and that the only way to salvation is through arcane rituals in a mormon temple.

Those who love freedom, was attested to by the change in FR over the last few monthsl ignore your tripe, I can only hope.

As far as the "change in FR", I haven't seen Jim Robinson refute this post he made on 8/21/2012:

At least two moderators resigned this afternoon after I flatly refused to rein in a so-called anti-Mormon "bigot" on FR. Well, if being in opposition to false prophets and false prophecy makes a Christian believer a bigot, then I guess I'm a bigot. I've posted before that I flat do not believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. Nor do I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The Christian bible warns us to be weary of false prophets and that I am. Romney being the presumptive Republican nominee does not change that fact.

If indeed, JR has refuted this statement, please provide the source stating so. He has stated his support for Romney, but I have not seen any indication that he has changed his stance on mormonism, and to my knowledge NONE of the so-called "anti-mormon" FReepers have been banned for their rebuttal on FR of mormon proselytizing.

Your comment labeling "Those who love freedom" as Romney supporters only, is about as convincing as the claim that Joseph Smith "restored" the true Gospel to the world which is total "tripe".

This election has just proven that Joseph Smith again made a false prophecy.

34 posted on 11/10/2012 9:43:21 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (We told you Mitt wouldn't win.)
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To: Ripliancum
Way to sow seeds that helped Obama win, you should be so proud.

How many excuse will we hear about on how Obama won? Except the real one, he stole it! Did you really think the destroyer would go away that easily? He was from the beginning of time. You should apologize to Colofornian but...

35 posted on 11/10/2012 9:44:53 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
God did hear our prayers. However, He didn’t do it how I wanted and thought HE would. I liked my way of kicking the destroyer to the curb. But...

AMEN!

Now we need to pray for a revival in this country. Nothing like a little adversity to get people's attention and turn them to God.

36 posted on 11/10/2012 9:52:41 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Ripliancum

Debunked by whom?
Certainly not by my mormon family, who go all the at back to Smith and Young.
This alleged debunking is a new mantra by LDS.


37 posted on 11/10/2012 9:53:03 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

Too soon, Colofornian. People are still mad.


38 posted on 11/10/2012 9:58:38 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Ripliancum
Those who love freedom...

Rip, I appreciate your comments...glad you feel free to chip in here.

But if I could look you in the eye, and ask you, if religious legalism is "freeing," what might your response be?

Lds leaders impose law after law after law upon Mormons -- who must obey in order to be deemed "worthy"...
(1) You HAVE TO be obedient to all the commandments & ordinances of the Mormon god
(2) You HAVE TO tithe -- what Lds reference as the "Law of consecration"
(3) You HAVE TO obey the "Word of Wisdom" -- not drink coffee, etc.
(4) You HAVE TO follow the law of eternal marriage...get married -- sorry, no never-married single people allowed
(5) You HAVE TO have as many children as possible
(6) You HAVE TO perform temple work for the dead
(7) You HAVE TO perform endowments essential for this highest degree of salvation
(8) You HAVE TO be a member of the right church (Lds)
(9) You HAVE TO receive & perform the rites and ordinances established by that church
(10) You HAVE TO follow the 'prophet'
(11) You HAVE TO observe the law of the fast
(12) You HAVE TO -- as if it wasn't a "want to" -- "pray often"
(13) Instead of treating repentance as a God-given gift, you HAVE TO treat it as a "law" -- and if you commit the same sin over again, it nullifies any previous "repentance" you did regarding that sin, treating it as if you never repented
(14)You HAVE TO have Joseph Smith's consent to enter into your highest afterlife

And then, of course, there's the obvious Biblical laws (10 commandments) -- which the apostle Paul warned didn't lead to receiving the Spirit:

1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is EVERYONE who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law.” (Gal. 3:1-6, 10)

Bottom line: The LDS are the "rules oriented" ones: The purity and perfection we seek is unattainable without this subjection of unworthy, ungodlike urges and the corresponding encouragement of their opposites. We certainly cannot expect the rules to be easier for us than for the Son of God... (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 28)

Just look @ all the "rule extensions" Lds have imposed upon their followers in order to make it to the highest degree of afterlife...That is 19th-20th-21st century legalism!

In contrast, God's truth is "the concept of free and full forgiveness through Christ" rather than the "earned forgiveness taught in Mormonism."

39 posted on 11/10/2012 9:59:01 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: blueunicorn6
Too soon, Colofornian. People are still mad.

Well, thanks for the feedback.

Truth was truth pre-election; truth was truth election day; truth is still truth post-election.

But I know you speak on behalf of others, so thanks, again, for your input.

40 posted on 11/10/2012 10:01:31 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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To: ravenwolf
Religion will be religion, it means nothing except power and of course politics is also religion, we have had a catholic president and the world never came to an end even though many people thought it would.

And yet, this is a coming world leader who is totally evil, who will be welcomed by virtually all the people of the world. He will present himself as a friend of Israel, and the Israelis and the Jews will look to him as Messiah. He will present the world and Israel with a peace treaty that he himself will enforce. People will embrace this man even though he is only here to present evil to the world.

And his religion is more than religion. His belief system will destroy the world as it is, and he will attempt to become God.

Of course, I speak of the Antichrist. People laugh at Christians because we are vigilant and continue to search the Scriptures to see if this or that world leader could be this evil creature. He will not have much opposition if people simply dismiss the belief systems of potential or present political leaders. This post on the White Horse Prophecy, though apparently NOT written by a Christian, is intended to open peoples' eyes to evil that stands before them, yet they choose to ignore that evil.

Many sensed that something was not quite right about Obama when he first began to emerge. We have seen that he is apparently able to mislead virtually an entire society that apparently no longer has a truth filter. We can then see how the Antichrist will slip through the filters and land his deception on almost the entire world.

I don't believe that Obama is the Antichrist. Unfortunately, he is very much LIKE the Antichrist. And we would do well to scrutinize his every move. Because with Obama's help, or someone who is very much like him, the Antichrist could slip into power somewhere in the world, and the people of the world would not even realize it.

The reason I am concerned is that the Bible notes that there is one who will help place the Antichrist into power. In Scripture, he is the first beast of Revelation, the False Prophet who paves the way for the Antichrist into the hearts and minds of the world.

The Bible notes in the Old Testment book of Daniel that the Antichrist must fulfill certain ethnic, nationalistic and spiritually-evil prophecies. The First Beast of Revelation apparently does not. I'm not saying that Obama is either of these two, certainly not the Second Beast who is the Antichrist. But let me express it this way: I would not be surprised if he turned out to be the second.

On the other hand, could a Mormon be the First Beast? As I said, the First Beast empowers himself off of an evil system. The book of Revelation says it this way: If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
41 posted on 11/10/2012 10:01:50 AM PST by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine .)
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To: Colofornian
In 1844 Joseph Smith..... prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.”

The American Civil War.

42 posted on 11/10/2012 10:02:08 AM PST by Lazamataz
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To: Colofornian
Out of this early chapter of U.S. history developed what has became known in the Mormon Church as the “White Horse Prophecy”—a controversial prediction that someday a great Mormon leader, who, at a time when the U.S. Constitution “hangs like a thread as fine as a silk fiber”, would be elected President.

They got half this prophecy right. The Constitution is on a thread.

43 posted on 11/10/2012 10:03:31 AM PST by Lazamataz
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To: polkajello

Mitt wasn’t the right Mormon—that’s all.


44 posted on 11/10/2012 10:04:44 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: presently no screen name
So, I joined you in thanking Colofornian for all the work and putting up with all the hate when enlightening us. As well as the other exMormons who were trashed while posting info on it.

I always find it amazing how some people will listen and others just put on their blinders and just cry "bigot" when people are bringing up the truth.

Colofornian and others are tireless in their efforts to bring up the truth. I have long given up on people but I also thank the Inmans for their strength and perseverance in exposing what Mormonism really is.

45 posted on 11/10/2012 10:15:19 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian

His daughter, Mary Ann Neff, married the notorious Mormon gunslinger and Utah folkhero Orrin Porter Rockwell.
_________________________________________________

Hey this author has better Mormon royalty creds than Willard...


46 posted on 11/10/2012 10:19:21 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

You are welcome. I grew up around Mormons, so I know what you’re writing about.


47 posted on 11/10/2012 10:21:06 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Colofornian

Albert Einstein supposedly once said that LDS Church apostle James E. Talmage was the smartest man he had ever met.
________________________________________

Well Talmage does have that one big thing going for him...

Hes not responsible for ORCA


48 posted on 11/10/2012 10:22:46 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

and Einstein himnself didnt touch it with a 40 foot pole...


49 posted on 11/10/2012 10:24:17 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Lazamataz; All
From my citation: In 1844 Joseph Smith..... prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.”

Your response: The American Civil War.

Except that in 1833 -- Jan. 4 to be precise -- vol. 1 of the Lds official "History of the Church" records this prophecy of Smith's as to how bad this "coming" disaster would be upon the United States:

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation: pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked from this generation from off the face of the land...therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say. (History of the Church, Vol. 1, p. 315, Jan. 4, 1833)

Ya wanna tell us about which earthquake that was for that "generation" -- not many years from 1833 -- which swept the wicked away?

What severe "pestilence" and "hail" came upon the U.S.? What year? When? What damage resulted that was worth a prophecy commanded by the Mormon god to make?

Deuteronomy 18 says that when a prophecy doesn't come to pass, we know the speaker was a false prophet.

It only takes one conviction for robbery to be labeled a robber; one conviction for murder to be deemed a murderer; Joseph Smith had a series of false prophecies, from the United Order being "everlasting" -- to David W. Patten serving a mission that didn't take place because he died the following spring...to others...

50 posted on 11/10/2012 10:25:44 AM PST by Colofornian (Some say "we're not voting 4 'pastor-in-chief'" --as if "gods-in-embryo" were divine only on Sundays)
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