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Difficult Days Ahead for the Church?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | November 7, 2012 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/07/2012 12:21:18 PM PST by NYer

My remarks will be brief, since this is not a political blog, and I am not a political prognosticator. The American people and process have spoken. But a few remarks based on the election results, things I think of as undeniable facts for the Church, though you are free to offer any rebuttals.

1. The strained relationship between the Catholic Church in the Democratic party will continue and the strain will likely grow. The reasons for this are that the Democratic Party is increasingly aligning itself with positions that are in direct conflict with Catholic teaching. More of this in the following points.

2. Largely unrestricted abortion will continue unabated, as will funding for organizations such as Planned Parenthood, the chief provider of abortion in this country. Possible Supreme Court nominations will also feature pro-choice jurists. Likewise many Circuit and other Federal District Court judges will continue to be appointed who favor largely unrestricted abortion.

3. The homosexual agenda will continue to grow and receive increasing legal recognition and protection. This includes not only gay “marriage” but also, other issues in the Gay agenda such as adoption, and the general insistence that the Gay lifestyle be promoted in schools and other public settings. This will require Church opposition and generally embroil us in many public disputes. This may have continued even with a Romney win, but there will be fewer political hurdles for such agendas and the pace will be quicker.

4. The HHS mandate moves forward, untouched. Our religious liberty is in greater jeopardy. We’ll have to meet the administration in court. And while the legal basis for our grievance seems strong, recent experience in the courts has demonstrated that nothing is certain. Civil disobedience may be in our future.

5. Extreme debt seems likely to pile up. Well this may not be a specific issue the Catholic Church has spoken to, it remains a fact that we spend money we do not have, and this has moral implications. Little change in a very divided Congress, means there will be likely little progress in arresting a runaway debt. This will become an increasing moral problem that the Church will likely have to address at some level. This too draws us into the morass of debates about spending priorities etc. and may divide us as a Church between fiscal conservatives and those who emphasize the Social Doctrine.

Thus, the next years ahead, will likely draw the Church into increasing conflict with the political scene in general, and the Democratic Party specifically.

And while it is not the instinct to the Church to be drawn into one side of the political debate, moral issues are increasingly demanding from us an unambiguous stance, one which draws us into increasing conflict with the Democratic Party on issues which we consider non-negotiable. At the same time, issues that we may share with the Democratic Party, are less doctrinal or certain for us. We face difficult days ahead, and difficult decisions about strategy and how to engage a party in power that is increasingly at odds with our most central tenants.

The Central question for us is, How will the Church be able to articulate her positions, increasingly at odds with the platform of the Democratic party and be able to resist the (unfair) charge that we are merely the Republican Party at prayer. There are difficult days ahead for the Church.

Let us pray for great courage and prudence.


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; obama
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To: NYer

bumpus ad summum


21 posted on 11/07/2012 3:08:32 PM PST by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Bravo!/s Let’s further attack our own...and even accuse them of what many of them did NOT do.


22 posted on 11/07/2012 3:17:24 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: dragonblustar

He blessed them with a victory.

______________________

Uh...NO, I don’t think so. I think he allowed this nation to have what many of them want....perhaps for their ultimate good....when they truly discover where it all leads.


23 posted on 11/07/2012 3:20:36 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: delchiante; ansel12; mosesdapoet
Liberals are liberal first, then jews, catholics, protestants, second, third or whatever... People who look to govt first are not followers of any belief system other than man and his govt... There in lies the churches problems... nobody thanks God when they get a check from uncle Sam.... they may thank God for uncle Sam....

Excellent observation. Back in January of this year ..

Pope Benedict XVI warned visiting U.S. bishops that "radical secularism" threatens the core values of American culture, and he called on the church in America, including politicians and other laypeople, to render "public moral witness" on crucial social issues.
Pope warns of threat to freedom of religion, conscience in US

As I noted in my post #16, many people have replaced God with government. Perhaps because of our unique isolation as a large country, Americans are not paying attention to how the same philosophy is playing itself out in Europe. In multiple speeches, Gov. Mitt Romney addressed the potential plight of America if it continues down the path of borrow and spend. We will turn into Greece. Sadly, far too many Americans lack foresight and live strictly in the present moment. When the well runs dry, like the Greeks, there will be panic and public demonstrations.

24 posted on 11/07/2012 3:22:18 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer

Let’s be realistic about contemporary society. Yesterday’s election confirmed something many of us find hard to accept: Government has replaced God in the eyes of the needy. Sports, birthday parties, sleepovers, et al. have replaced Sunday Mass for many families with children.

____________________________

BINGO!!!

We can blame our situation on many things...but the MAIN reason we are in this mess is because of all of our choices.

“Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.” ... Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Until we come to the place of GREAT repentance on the part of the majority of this nation, we will see an increasingly worse scenario. The CHANGE that is really needed is SPIRITUAL. History teaches this. The Sacred Scriptures teach this. Why do we have to learn this the hard way?


25 posted on 11/07/2012 3:24:37 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: NYer

The Catholic Church (and not just the Catholic Church) in crisis and at a crossroad.


26 posted on 11/07/2012 3:40:10 PM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: pbear8
She is under Interdict from her Bishop.

Is asking someone to refrain from presenting themselves the same as barring them under 915?

27 posted on 11/07/2012 3:41:56 PM PST by COBOL2Java (The GOP-e said "Beat a Marxist with a Liberal!" What a colossal blunder.)
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To: SumProVita
“Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.” ... Alexander Solzhenitsyn

While driving errands this morning, I happened to catch a short segment on Glenn Beck's radio program. The female caller identified herself as as "someone who had immigrated from Soviet Russia 12 years ago" to embrace the American dream. She said that when Obama was elected in 2008, she became concerned. She went on to cite Obama's statements and compare them to those she heard growing up in a socialist, marxist society. Now that Obama has been re-elected, she was frightened. Unfortunately, I did not have time to listen to his explanation.

America has abandoned God; we no longer "trust in God". Rush Limbaugh likened Obama to Santa Claus. As he pointed out:

Conservatism, in my humble opinion, did not lose last night. It's just very difficult to beat Santa Claus. It is practically impossible to beat Santa Claus. People are not going to vote against Santa Claus, especially if the alternative is being your own Santa Claus.

At one time, the Catholic Church played that role, providing provisions and support for the poor and destitute. The Catholic Church, not surprisingly, appealed to government, to provide these same services for their beleaguered citizens. Over the course of time, government responded. Now, the Catholic Church is in competition with government, for these souls. Worse yet, the Catholic Church still believes they must deliver to the poor and beleaguered and expect the government to fund their outreach.

Under Obama, the government has responded. If the Catholic Church wishes to receive funding from the government for services they are already providing, then the church must be willing to give in to government demands which include the distribution of contraceptives and abortion services. It's a conundrum. In one regard, the church has accomplished its mission of making government responsible for these individuals; on the other hand, the church has outlived its mission to the poor (in this country). Your thoughts?

28 posted on 11/07/2012 4:00:13 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer; delchiante; mosesdapoet

***Liberals are liberal first, then jews, catholics, protestants, second, third or whatever... People who look to govt first are not followers of any belief system other than man and his govt... There in lies the churches problems... nobody thanks God when they get a check from uncle Sam.... they may thank God for uncle Sam....***
“”Excellent observation.””

Nonsense, if that were true then we could count on protestants voting democrat like the other groups, but they never do.


29 posted on 11/07/2012 4:04:05 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney not only reelected Obama, he lost the Senate,ruined the "down ticket", West, Mia Love, Brown.)
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To: NYer

File under ‘D’ for ‘Day Late & Dollar Short’


30 posted on 11/07/2012 4:10:29 PM PST by Pushead (The highways of history are strewn with the wreckage of the nations that forgot God.)
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To: NYer

Forget about being called Republican for talking about social issues. The Democrats have long used this to intimidate bishops. Nor should bishops criticize the Republicans to demonstrate their even-handedness. It was absurd for the bishops to come out against Ryan’s plan, which was only a proposal, whereas the mandate was an actual blow aimed by Sebelius at the Church.


31 posted on 11/07/2012 4:15:22 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: NYer

I don’t think the Church has outlived (or ever will) her mission to the poor. However, that mission MUST take place within the context of the transmission of the GOOD NEWS. We must also remember that the “poor” are not only those who lack for material good....but those who lack spiritual goods as well. ;-)

I honestly think that the Church can no longer partner with what is becoming a very anti-Christian government. These thoughts are not recent. This is something I have considered for quite a number of years.

Our period of confusion as how to best serve the poor via a partnership with government began to fully run amuck in the ‘60’s. It took place because Catholics (lay and clergy) did not have a fully informed understanding of the authentic social teaching of the Church..


32 posted on 11/07/2012 4:21:19 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: ansel12

I know the PCusa would disagree with you ...again a liberal is a liberal first..


33 posted on 11/07/2012 4:27:48 PM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante

I guess what I was pointing out is why are protestants mostly conservative voters, and Catholics and Jews, and other religions mostly liberal voters?

Why do we know in advance that protestants are going to support the republican, why aren’t they “liberals first”?


34 posted on 11/07/2012 4:38:40 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney not only reelected Obama, he lost the Senate,ruined the "down ticket", West, Mia Love, Brown.)
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To: NYer

And those with Jesus Christ in their heart will know one second in glory outweighs a lifetime of suffering, regardless of their plight here on earth.

And for too many this life is all about them, all about here and all about now..

If your life is about Jesus, about heaven and about spending eternity with Him in heaven, no man or election can bring you down for long.. You will be needed to minister to those when the well is dry.


35 posted on 11/07/2012 4:44:33 PM PST by delchiante
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To: SumProVita
Attack our own? I and many others have been begging, pleading, imploring the Catholic Church to make a stand and act within their own written governance (I know that it not the correct name, it escapes me) for literally decades.

The Catholic Church has processes to discipline parishioners and has used it on many occasions. hey danced the dance with politicians. Good grief, they made the King of England leave over divorce in a time when he held sway over life and death of his subjects with impunity.

And now that the damage is done, and millions have died in their mother's womb, we are not supposed to say anything about their participation?

And as for the many that did not stand by idly - name one Catholic politician who was held to account for abortion support by the Catholic Church. Name one.

36 posted on 11/07/2012 7:10:44 PM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: NYer
In recent years, most of the Church Hierarchy (Bishops/Priests) in the USA have been almost completely silent about what they are now calling the issues involving "intrinsic evils", and their promotion by current "Catholic" politicians.

What I heard from our local Bishop and Priests just prior to this election has been mostly vague, nebulous platitudes and advice, such as telling us to pray before voting, etc.

In the future, they are going to have to step up to the plate and speak much more clearly about these issues and really identify the people promoting those "intrinsic evils", so that no one can possibly miss the plain messages they are delivering.

I believe we (the Church) and our Country/Freedoms/Rights are in for some VERY difficult times in the near future, and over the next four years. It may very well involve persecution, and even martyrdom at some point.

However, looking back into history, God chose to enter in human form during very difficult times, both in regards to the rotten and evil government in power then, and in the general sinful and moral debasement of the times. I believe He often uses those kinds of difficult times to create some much greater good.

The years that followed for his early Church were extremely difficult too, as the fire they passed through often ended in severe persecution and martyrdom.

However, God used the "fire" of that anti-God Roman government and their actions (the Crucifixion) to provide us with our greatest good, and he used that same kind of fire to purify His early Church. The Church came through that fire stronger and more focused, and it grew tremendously from the blood shed by those early martyrs. Many phony-baloney heretical pretenders were also shaken out of the Church in those early days, and the clear truths of the Christian Gospel were preserved and presented to the world.

(Think also of the Israelites even before that, back in the Old Testament times, and their struggles and wanderings in the desert before entering the "Promised Land", and their troubles in various captivities under bad, rotten governments, before Our Saviour was born among them, according to God's Holy Will and Plan.)

While I don't relish the thought of the Church in the USA going through any kind of similar troubling times today, I believe God does use those kinds of times to purify and strengthen His Church and His People. It may be time in the USA to purify and clarify His Church and Message here, and even shake out some of the wishy-washy USA Bishops and Priests who are not providing any kind of clarity or Pastoral guidance on these most important and extremely vital issues and teachings of God and His Church, especially about those "intrinsic evils", and the people who promote them.

On the other hand, I believe God also really does want us to pray for our enemies (both foreign and domestic), and I know for myself, I have a very hard time these days trying to kneel down and pray for those enemies, so perhaps this is another way for me to personally learn to better try to conform to His Holy Will. (Can God convert some of those hardcore and seemingly unreachable sleazy politicians and mainstream media nutballs? "Is anything too hard for God?" - Jeremiah 32:27)

37 posted on 11/07/2012 7:52:30 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Fear not, for I am with you, be not dismayed, for I am your God," - Isaiah 41:10)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Could you expand re: You put these people in power?

Who are you talking about and how could you know that?


38 posted on 11/07/2012 11:46:36 PM PST by AliVeritas (God's will be done. Pray, Pray, Pray, Penance, Penance, Penance.)
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To: SumProVita

1 Samuel 8.


39 posted on 11/08/2012 12:51:13 AM PST by AliVeritas (God's will be done. Pray, Pray, Pray, Penance, Penance, Penance.)
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To: NYer
You're right but the problem is much deeper. According to exit polls, Obama won Catholic voters 50 percent to 47 percent! That's an alarming number but when you dig deeper into the stats, you discover that Catholics who attend Mass weekly seem to have favored Romney.

you also have to remember that 30 years ago, it would have been 80 percent of Catholics voted Democrat, so there is a big change...

40 posted on 11/08/2012 3:19:05 AM PST by LadyDoc
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