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Joseph Smith and Kabbalah: The Occult Connection
Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, reprinted in Gnosis ^ | Fall 1994 | Lance S. Owens

Posted on 09/09/2012 8:00:06 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon

This work was originally published in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 27, No. 3, Fall 1994, pp. 117-194. The paper received considerable notice, and in 1995 the Mormon History Association recognized Joseph Smith and Kabbalah: The Occult Connection with its annual award for the best article in Mormon studies. [snip]

The one thing about which we might all agree concerning Joseph Smith is that he was not the usual sort of person. He did not approach life itself--or his religious commitment--in a usual way. Yet the character of our historical investigation of Joseph Smith and his times has been primarily traditional, unimaginative, and lacking in any effort to find or create an epistemological methodology revolutionary enough to deal with the paradox of our movement. The irony of our position is that many of our methods and interpretations have become so traditional that they can only reinforce the fears of yesterday rather than nurture the seeds of tomorrow's dreams.1

More than two decades have passed since those words were penned, years marked by a veritable explosion in Mormon studies, and yet Edward's challenge "to find or create an epistemological methodology revolutionary enough to deal with the paradox" of Joseph Smith remains a summons largely unanswered. Revolutions are painful processes, in measure both destructive and creative. The imaginative revisioning of Joseph Smith's "unusual approach" to life and religion, demands a careful--though perhaps still difficult and destructive--hewing away of an hundred years of encrusting vilifications and thick layerings of iconographic pigments, masks ultimately false to his lively cast. Smith eschewed orthodoxy, and so eventually must his historians. To that end, there is considerable value in turning full attention to the revolutionary view of Joseph Smith provided by Harold Bloom in his critique of The American Religion.

(Excerpt) Read more at gnosis.org ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Other Christian; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: christian; christianity; gnosis; gnosticism; isreal; josephsmithjr; lds; magic; magick; masonry; mormon; mormonism; occult; religion; romney; wicca; witchcraft
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1 posted on 09/09/2012 8:00:10 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

we got a lot worse than Mormans to worry about.


2 posted on 09/09/2012 8:07:50 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: dalebert

Yep! Like a “religion” that will lie to us and cut off our heads if we don’t submit.


3 posted on 09/09/2012 8:14:44 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Bocephus hits a home run! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_vjPqAVzI)
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To: dalebert
we got a lot worse than Mormans to worry about.

Yeah. Like the Saxons.

4 posted on 09/09/2012 8:16:56 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

I’ll take a Mormon president over a Marxist one.


5 posted on 09/09/2012 8:17:56 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: dalebert; RushIsMyTeddyBear

Nice try fellas.
This is the religion forum and someone posted about mormonism.
Try and keep up, ok?


6 posted on 09/09/2012 8:18:54 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Fiji Hill

You win, first post on this religion forum thread to bring in politics.
Such an honor.


7 posted on 09/09/2012 8:20:12 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Fiji Hill; All
This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the Free Republic browse option list. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

8 posted on 09/09/2012 8:25:42 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Interesting


9 posted on 09/09/2012 8:27:03 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Ill take the mormon over the homosexual marxist muslim.


10 posted on 09/09/2012 8:27:23 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: DesertRhino
Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Also, if you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the Free Republic browse option list. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

12 posted on 09/09/2012 8:32:54 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: DesertRhino

This thread is in the religion forum not the news/activism forum, which means this is a religious discussion, you are appearing to jump to conclusionsotherwise.
mormonism has been discussed in the religion forum since before 2003, however because of the current political situation, some people are just now noticing.


13 posted on 09/09/2012 8:35:21 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Who cares? We have this freedom of religion thing...


14 posted on 09/09/2012 8:39:40 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: bigbob

I am curious, who said we don’t.
This is a really interesting study into some early mormonism foundational issues.


15 posted on 09/09/2012 8:42:54 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear
"Yep! Like a “religion” that will lie to us and cut off our heads if we don’t submit."

Mormons have done that. Read up on Mormon blood atonement.

16 posted on 09/09/2012 8:52:38 PM PDT by fulltlt
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To: svcw

Don’t make it personal, k? Anyway, they do indeed have some astounding theological differences don’t they? I could never believe their beliefs. Thats for sure! However, they sure are clean, respectful and polite.

One of their bizzare beliefs (in my opinion) is that Christ popped down in America personally, to talk with the indians. But when i really think about it, how is that any different than Catholics believing Mary popped down outside of Mexico city in 1531 and talked to Juan Diego? (another indian) Interesting that we find one to be fantastic, and the other plausible.


17 posted on 09/09/2012 9:42:38 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

Not sure saying apparently...is making it personal.
I know nothing about Mary and the new world, never heard that before, regardless there is a huge difference between Mary and Jesus.
The lds are clean and respectful because they must work for their salvation, there is no Grace.
And they are working for godhood of their own planets.


18 posted on 09/09/2012 10:07:36 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: fulltlt
Mormons have done that.

Indians used to cut the scalps off Christians. We ain't mad at them anymore.

19 posted on 09/09/2012 10:10:16 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: svcw

I don’t know why everyone is so ‘down’ on Mormons anyway.

As a general rule, based on their behavior, whatever heaven is, I bet they get in first.

I mean, isn’t the important thing HOW they act, and not really WHY ?


20 posted on 09/09/2012 10:16:25 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Isn’t the Kabbalah part of Jewish Mysticism ? (as well)


21 posted on 09/09/2012 10:17:52 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

And since the dude in the WH is an avowed communist I am sure you will be posting about that soon too....no?


22 posted on 09/09/2012 10:19:48 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: svcw

And the anti-religionist in the WH is not a legit concern???


23 posted on 09/09/2012 10:20:38 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: svcw

And can we not in the religion forum point out that the WH is occupied by a God hating communist???


24 posted on 09/09/2012 10:21:49 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: svcw
first post on this religion forum thread to bring in politics.

Since you brought it up... (not trying to divert the thread, but your comment posed an interesting question regarding politics)...

How many Mormons are Democrats ?

25 posted on 09/09/2012 10:21:59 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Religion Moderator
This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

I always log in to "freerepublic.com." This thread came up, and I responded. There was nothing in the message indicating that it was in the Religion Forum or that Methodists are excluded from responding to this thread. If you don't like my response, well, tough tamales!

26 posted on 09/09/2012 10:23:39 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: UCANSEE2

Oh, my goodness.......nice dose not get you to heaven.
There is one way and one way only, and it is not being nice.


27 posted on 09/09/2012 10:25:28 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Nifster

Sure ping when you post a thread about it.


28 posted on 09/09/2012 10:26:14 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: UCANSEE2

Lots. That’s the simple.
There is nothing in mormonism that would preclude them from being liberals, which is why the mormon politicians are all liberal.


29 posted on 09/09/2012 10:27:59 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

I have a (can u believe it?) related question.

Where did Joseph Smith come up with the name Mormon ?


30 posted on 09/09/2012 10:29:30 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: svcw

I didn’t say nice, I said based on their behavior.

Though there is nothing wrong with nice.


31 posted on 09/09/2012 10:33:02 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Someone in their fantasy named Moroni.


32 posted on 09/09/2012 10:36:11 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
There is nothing in mormonism that would preclude them from being liberals, which is why the mormon politicians are all liberal.

Well.... now I've heard it all. And (didn't we do this before) you use such absolutes.

33 posted on 09/09/2012 10:36:16 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

I didn’t say there was anything wrong with nice, I said nice doesn’t get you into heaven.


34 posted on 09/09/2012 10:37:36 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
nice dose not get you to heaven.

Good thing that grammar and spelling aren't prerequisites for heaven or you'd be screwed.

: )

35 posted on 09/09/2012 10:38:25 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Really? Are you absolutely sure about that?
Oh, yea and what in my statement is an absolute as apposed to the truth?


36 posted on 09/09/2012 10:39:52 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: UCANSEE2

Thank is just so cut


37 posted on 09/09/2012 10:40:56 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
Someone in their fantasy named Moroni.

Moroni... an angel, correct?

Do you believe in angels?

38 posted on 09/09/2012 10:44:19 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Not in lds angels.


39 posted on 09/09/2012 10:51:15 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
Oh, yea and what in my statement is an absolute as apposed to the truth?

In order for me to put any belief into your statement, I would require that you had done a thorough study of Mormonism and Christianity (at a minimum) and various other religions and mythologies.

You have a powerful computer in front of you, with spellchecker and 10,000 online dictionaries, and yet you cannot spell 'opposed'.

Please explain to me why I or anyone else should give you any credibility. (and it's not the only grammar or spelling error you have made on this thread.)

You are my friend, but don't pretend to be 'above' others in your 'knowledge of the universe' or 'knowledge of the theological world' when you show an inability to master the English Language.

40 posted on 09/09/2012 10:52:59 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Nifster; All

Since this thread is turning political...

No, the current occupant of the White House is not a concern on FR, mainly because most Freepers have enough sense not to vote for him. In contrast, the GOP-e has spent millions trying to convince conservatives that Romney, despite a past record that differs very little from the current WH occupant, is in fact a conservative.

Similarly, most Freepers have enough sense to recognize that as a radical supporter of prenatal infanticide, Obama does not practice Christianity in any meaningful way. Many Republicans, however, are bending over background to try and convince themselves that Romney is Christian.

Fortunately, we have a lot of conservative Republicans running down ticket locally.


41 posted on 09/09/2012 10:53:23 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: UCANSEE2

I’m guessing Mormo, who in Greek mythology as certain occult traditions was the consort of Hecate (goddess of witches) as well as the god of ghouls.


42 posted on 09/09/2012 10:57:01 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: svcw
Thank is just so cut


43 posted on 09/09/2012 10:57:33 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: svcw
Not in lds angels.

Well... Moroni wasn't an LDS angel. LDS hadn't been invented. Michael and Gabriel aren't Christian angels (in the 'sense' that you are using) either.

44 posted on 09/09/2012 11:01:38 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: svcw
Are you absolutely sure about that?

The only things I am absolutely sure about are the things that cannot be proven (at least until I'm dead).

45 posted on 09/09/2012 11:09:15 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I’m guessing Mormo, who in Greek mythology as certain occult traditions was the consort of Hecate (goddess of witches) as well as the god of ghouls.

In the sense that most all religions are a mixture of various other religions and mythologies, I guess it is possible, but it sure seems a stretch in the wrong direction.

By your prefix (I'm guessing) I would say you have no documentary evidence to support that.

46 posted on 09/09/2012 11:19:28 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

It’s late and I’m about to nod off. Before I do I wanted to say Thank You for posting this article.

I like to learn more about various religions. I apologize for any threadjacking, if it appears that way to you. I think the recent peak from the DNC and RNC has politics burning through our brains and hard to avoid mentioning, especially since Mr. Romney is Mormon.

I have to say, though, If I only knew one thing about the candidates (THEIR RELIGION), I’d probably pick a Mormon as being the BEST in overall LEADERSHIP and MORALITY.

I think those two traits are very important for the role of President.

For those who criticize Mormons, I refer them to the Bible (Matthew 7:3) “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

FEW understand that verse and it’s true meaning, based on a lifetime of personal observation.


47 posted on 09/09/2012 11:34:17 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Joseph Smith came by his practice of the occult through his family, since his mother and father were deeply involved. The following is quoted in: The Salt Lake City Messenger, April 1999, #95, by Jerald and Sandra Tanner. “The evidence seems to show that Joseph Smith did make sacrifices to the demons. In an affidavit published in 1834, William Stafford, one of the neighbors of the Smith family, reported the following: ‘Joseph Smith, Sen., came to me one night, and told me that Joseph Smith Jr. had been looking in his glass, and had seen, not many rods from his house, two or three kegs of gold and silver… Joseph, Sen. first made a circle, twelve or fourteen feet in diameter. This circle, said he, contains the treasure. He then stuck in the ground a row of witch hazel sticks, around the said circle, for the purpose of keeping off the evil spirits. Within this circle he made another, of about eight or ten feet in diameter. He walked around three times on the periphery of this last circle, muttering to himself something which I could not understand. He next stuck a steel rod in the centre of the circles, and then enjoined profound silence upon us, lest we should arouse the evil spirit who had the charge of these treasures. After we had dug a trench about five feet in depth around the rod, the old man… went to the house to inquire of young Joseph the cause of our disappointment. He soon returned and said, that Joseph had remained all this time in the house, looking in his stone and watching the motions of the evil spirit –that h saw the spirit come up to the ring and as soon as it beheld the cone which we had formed around the rod, it caused the money to sink… another time, they devised a scheme, by which they might satiate their hunger, with the mutton of one of my sheep. They had seen in my flock a sheep, a large, fat, black weather. Old Joseph and one of the boys came to me one day, and said that Joseph Jr. had discovered some very remarkable and valuable treasures, which could be procured only in one way. That way, was as follows: –That a black sheep should be taken to the ground where the treasures were concealed –that after cutting its throat, it should be led around in a circle while bleeding. This being done, the wrath of the evil spirit would be appeased: the treasures could then be obtained, and my share of them was to be four fold. To gratify my curiosity, I let them have a large fat sheep. They afterwards informed me, that the sheep was killed pursuant to commandment; but as there was some mistake in the process, it did not have the desired effect. This, I believe, is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business.’ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834, pages 238-239; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, pp.59-6


48 posted on 09/09/2012 11:38:23 PM PDT by Tuanedge
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To: svcw
I said nice doesn’t get you into heaven.

Maybe it doesn't get you in, but being nice might get you IN FIRST.

THAT REFERENCE IS in the CHRISTIAN BIBLE, if you would like me to provide the quote.

49 posted on 09/09/2012 11:39:07 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Fiji Hill

You messed up, so you spit in the face of the moderator?


50 posted on 09/09/2012 11:49:55 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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