Posted on 09/09/2012 3:08:47 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
A recent sermon by Pastor David Jeremiah has been weighing heavily upon my mind.
He recounted the true-life story of contemporaries William Franklin Graham and Charles Templeton, up and coming young evangelists who began their ministries during the 1940s.
Most thought Templeton, rather than Graham, would achieve greater things in the name of the Lord.
But, in fact, the former fell away from his Christian faith – actually declaring himself atheist – while the great Billy Graham remained a good and faithful servant of the Most High.
Pastor Jeremiah shared the story of Graham and Templeton to remind his congregation (as well as those of us watching on TV or listening on radio) that, as Christ followers, “we are expected to run with endurance the race that has been set before us.”
Yet, in his next breath, the pastor said that, while Templeton did not finish the race he started, he still has a place in God’s kingdom.
Because, said Pastor Jeremiah, it mattered not that Templeton renounced the Christian faith he espoused as a young evangelist, nor that he went to his grave an atheist, since he one time gave his life to the Lord, he’s secure for all eternity.
That is the doctrine preached in many, if not most Christian churches, with which I have the most difficulty:
Once saved, always saved.
No matter how it is preached, or by whom it is preached – including Pastor Jeremiah, whom I greatly admire – I am unable to accept it.
For why would the Apostle Paul encourage us to run with endurance the race set before us if simply answering an altar call one Sunday gives us a lifetime Get Out Of Hell Free card?
And speaking of the Apostle Paul, suppose his life story was reversed. Suppose he spent the first part of his adult life preaching Christ’s salvation, but the second part persecuting Christians.
Would he be today in Paradise?
I think not.
“For it is impossible,” the Scripture warns, “for those who were once enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”
The takeaway from that Scripture is that it is not enough to give our lives to Christ for a season, then fall away from our faith. We do not have a free pass to sin as it pleases us. We are expected to abide in Christ, as He abides in us; to live our lives according to his Word.
So those of us who believe ourselves saved should not be deceived. The Scripture warns, “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Those who abide in such sins will spend eternity separated from their Creator. Even if they were one-time Christ followers, like Charles Templeton.
God Gave us the 10 Commandments the Beatitudes the Bible and His Church to protect us from ourself. Violating these Commandments have consequences.
my simple understanding is that there is no sin grave enough to cause one to lose there salvation on account of that sin, but you still need to repent and make amends for every sin.
Tricky one, Judas being saved or not.
Not only did Jesus predict that betrayal (without naming the turncoat), He also predicted being denied by Peter.
Judas didn’t protest Jesus’ prediction but he wasn’t deterred by Jesus effectively saying “I know you’re going to do this”.
Jesus knew Judas would be the betrayer and protected his identity to ensure Judas didn’t get set upon by the other disciples.
I struggle to make sense of the argument that Judas wasn’t saved, to be honest. He knew it was going to happen AND he knew Jesus knew. But he still went ahead with it.
Why? For a few bits of silver?!
Who in their right mind would betray the son of God and send himself to the lake of fire having already been told by Jesus “I know what you’re going to do” and later being stricken down by his own conscience?
I mean, COME ON!
Judas’ betrayal has “not only was this all part of the plan, he was in on it from the start” written all over it.
As we know Jesus’ resolve waivered but he played his part, is it not possible Judas reluctantly played his part but couldn’t handle the guilt?
Compelling arguments exist on either side”
Salvation posted the arguments against OSAS
Kindly post the compelling arguments FOR
Lurking’
It’s not biblical at all and does just what the author says.
Hebrews chapter 6 puts the nail in the coffin of once saved, always saved:
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Using the verse quoted (Hebrews 6:4-6), Catholic doctrine would, it seems to me, be able to readmit someone, like say, Nicole Kidman back into fellowship. Which they did. Not that I know a lot about Catholic doctrine. If someone cares to explain it to me. I will listen.
But what do we make of these two verses, if not "once saved; always saved"?
John 6
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
“So let me make sure I understand this. If someone totally rejects and repudiates their Christianity, they are just showing that they were never actually saved in the first place?”
That’s the doctrine, yes.
“Can anyone know for sure that they will never repudiate their Christianity (or more properly, Christ?)”
The Bible seems to be replete with reassurances on this. For example, “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (John 14:1-3).
Also the examples of Job, and Peter, Satan is allowed to do so much, and no more. Throughout Biblical history, God keeps his people.
“At the least the teaching that a person can reject his salvation still allows for present assurance based on present faith”
That may be so; but it should be of concern to us to think Biblically, and accept what the Bible says, not be pragmatic about it.
Even Hitler could have repented at the last and gone to heaven. My money doesn’t go that way, however
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: (notice the punctuation)
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but MAY have life everlasting.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, MAY not perish, but MAY have life everlasting.
Where did it say that those who, when bitten by a snake, looked to the serpent Moses lifted up in the desert to be healed they were also assured of never being bitten again and therefore again in need of looking to the serpent Moses raised? It says that when bitten they had to look at the serpent Moses had raised up. Not a thing is said about their then being assured of never being bitten again.
MAY have is NOT the same as WILL have. Sorry, but John 3:16 in no way says anything about "once saved always saved" unless you prefer to twist it to suit your personal preconceptions.
I think it means nothing more than that God foreknows who will be saved at the time of their death. They are the ones the Father has given to the Son. The one who believes (present tense, continually) has everlasting life by the grace of God through faith.
That scripture is talking about repenting back to Judaism...which is what the whole passage is about.
The writer was saying that it's impossible for a true believer to go back (repent) to Judaism which is what those people were tempted to do in the face of christian persecution. The book was written to Jewish believers (thus the title of "Hebrews"). It's all about the futility of the old Jewish practices.
St John chapter 17 verse 12- (jesus speaking)—while i was with them in the world I kept them in thy name: Those that thou gavest me i have kept, and none of them is lost, “ but the son of perdition” that the scripture might be fulfilled—
Take a look at verse 9 also—
“So those who “fall away” although they “were once enlightened and ... partakers of the Holy Spirit” were not truly saved? “
In order to be consistent, the answer would have to be “yes.”
Apparently, we can be enlightened, taste the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, taste the good word of God and the powers of the age to come. . . and fall away.
What do these things mean - being enlightened, tasting the heavenly gift, etc.? I don’t pretend to completely know, but I think perhaps of Esau. He was a son of the covenant, circumcised (sign of inclusion in the covenant people), son of patriarch Isaac, knew all about God, heard His word, knew about the heavenly promises - yet rejected his birthright (his salvation; his place in the kingdom).
Or Judas, who knew the gospel, professed faith, walked with Jesus, actually kissed Him - yet betrayed Christ.
I assume that is the sort of experience the verse you reference is talking about.
If we want to stretch it to Templeton (I don’t know much about him), say, he was raised in the church, baptized, knew the gospel, read his Bible, got ordained - but was lost.
Reincarnation??
Tell me, if your soul, or whatever, comes back and remembers NOTHING of your previous life, aren’t YOU as good as dead?
And if what you have to look forward to is the dissolution of self into the infinite all, what is the point? Belief in death being nonexistence makes more sense, and seems preferable to me.
Yes, of course, at least in the New Testament where Christians live.
The Christian's covenant with God has one article, accept Jesus as your personal savior, and live in grace, not laws.
2 Corinthians 5:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
A born again Christian has salvation forever
You can know the Jesus is the Son of God and not be saved, you can even believe He died and rose again, but true repetance is turning from sin and embracing Christ and living for Him.
You can know the Jesus is the Son of God and not be saved, you can even believe He died and rose again, but true repetance is turning from sin and embracing Christ and living for Him.
Paul said this almost 2000yrs ago.
2 Thessalonians 2:
1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
WE are warned about falling away. Especially into the last days many will be deceived and fall away...
Also in Matt 12 43-46 discusses what happens when a demon leaves ...and then returns to an empty house and the man is no better, but worse off.
So yes, ‘saved’ doesn’t mean forever.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.