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As Baptists Prepare to Meet, Calvinism Debate Shifts to Heresy Accusation
Christianity Today ^ | 6-18-2012 | Weston Gentry

Posted on 06/21/2012 8:24:00 AM PDT by fishtank

As Baptists Prepare to Meet, Calvinism Debate Shifts to Heresy Accusation Hundreds, including seminary presidents, have signed a statement on salvation criticized by both Reformed and Arminian theologians. Weston Gentry [ posted 6/18/2012 ] A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, and tensions are expected to escalate Tuesday as church leaders descend on New Orleans.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: baptist; calvinism; heresy; sbc
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.. heard this on Janet Mefferd yesterday ...

http://janetmefferd.com/

1 posted on 06/21/2012 8:24:10 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank
related story...

Outgoing SBC Head Calls on Southern Baptists to Repent of Theological Idolatry

2 posted on 06/21/2012 8:28:25 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank

Non-Calvinist baptists are like hamburger eating vegetarians.

No matter how much they try to claim they are both at the same time, the assertion is so ludicrous as to not be worth any time contemplating it.


3 posted on 06/21/2012 8:30:57 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: fishtank

The Bible is very clear on the plan of salvation. God offers us this gift, we can take it or not. If God forces it on us, then it is not a gift. Calvinism, begone!

(Flame suit donned)


4 posted on 06/21/2012 8:31:51 AM PDT by Buddygirl (Just about all Democrats are (blank). You fill in the blank!)
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To: Buddygirl

It is therefore entirely possible that Christ died for no one, since it is possible that everyone could exercise free will to say, “no.”


5 posted on 06/21/2012 8:34:39 AM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: fishtank

Oooh, A Calvinism debate. Dibs on the popcorn concession!


6 posted on 06/21/2012 8:37:05 AM PDT by polkajello (Romney: The Lesser of Two Weasels)
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To: fishtank
The orignal Baptists weren't Calvinists.

The original Anabaptist movement was best exemplified by the martyr Jan Hus and did not consider themselves either reformers of the Catholic church nor followers of the 4th century Nicene Creeds, though they did not explicitly reject them either.

They considered themselves to be originalists and drove both Calvinist and Catholic leadership crazy. Some of them, of course, later united with the Calvinist faction for protection.

Others refused and went their own way. Roger Williams was perhaps the best example.

7 posted on 06/21/2012 8:40:11 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Buddygirl
You're right. See my post #7.

It is therefore entirely possible that Christ died for no one, since it is possible that everyone could exercise free will to say, “no.”

Your debate opponent is right also, but the chances of this actually happening is considerably less than my chances of buying the ticket which hits the Powerball jackpot with $2.

8 posted on 06/21/2012 8:45:29 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Buddygirl

Question for those at the convention :
Is God sovereign or not?
If He says “jump”, do we say “how high” or do we say “no”?

(Another Example:
He hardened Pharaoh’s heart for a reason)


9 posted on 06/21/2012 8:46:07 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: esquirette

I avoid these debates.
I’m predestined to believe in free will.

John Calvin 3:16

For God so loved the elect that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever he chose should not perish but have everlasting life whether they want it or not.

Will Wallace

Well, maybe I don’t avoid these arguments after all. I now await the Calvinists to argue with me to choose not to believe in free will- with straight faces no less.


10 posted on 06/21/2012 8:46:50 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: polkajello

11 posted on 06/21/2012 8:47:15 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Buddygirl
Yeah, because when I “accepted” the gift of salvation, God was surprised. sarc/

I wouldnt characterize myself as a 5 point type, however, how much “choice” do I have with something that God has foreknowledge of?

12 posted on 06/21/2012 8:48:06 AM PDT by TheGunny
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To: Buddygirl

“If God forces it on us, then it is not a gift. Calvinism, begone!”

I am not flaming you, buddygirl, but that is a misrepresentation of Calvinist theology. If you are going to argue against it, define it honestly.

“Calvinism” says that God’s grace is irresistible. “For who has resisted His will?” (Romans 9:19). To characterize that as “forcing” is not accurate.


13 posted on 06/21/2012 8:50:05 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: will of the people

I once asked Dr. Roger Nicole if some were predestined to be Arminians. He replied, “Oh, no. God is not the author of sin.”


14 posted on 06/21/2012 8:50:21 AM PDT by polkajello (Romney: The Lesser of Two Weasels)
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To: F15Eagle; .45 Long Colt; Buddygirl; Former Fetus; Bockscar; Graybeard58; JLLH; Outlaw Woman; ...

Disclaimer: (This is not a Baptist ping)
But you can be reading this while I am deciding to ping the Baptist list or just wait and see if it happens anyway.


15 posted on 06/21/2012 8:52:02 AM PDT by WKB (There are too many coincidences in this world...... for this world to be a coincidence.)
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To: will of the people

Calvinism doesn’t teach that you don’t have a free will.

It teaches that men are totally depraved, and that left to their free will, they will choose evil every time. Unless God in His Mercy restrains you from evil. He gives you the gift of salvation. In your sin, you’d never take it. In His mercy, you do.

You’re either dead in your sins, or alive in Christ. There’s no such thing as half alive.

Anyway, as long as things don’t get contentious, don’t avoid the debates. We’re all suppose to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. God wrote about it in His Word so we can think about it and talk about it. Come, let us reason together according to the Scriptures.


16 posted on 06/21/2012 8:54:41 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: fishtank
The terms of the discussion are so muddled that no one involved in the debate seems able to identify their own views vis-a-vis the following distinct positions:

(1) Pelagianism
(2) Semipelagianism
(3) Orthodox soteriology
(4) Calvinism.
(5) Hypercalvinism/Jansenism.

17 posted on 06/21/2012 8:55:08 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: will of the people

Well, when “Will” is in your name, what can be expected?

Seriously, it expanded my horizons and comfort level tremendously when I accepted that God is sovereign in all things - especially in the area of salvation, thus making it impossible for me to back out, mess it up, or ruin other things He might be waiting for me to do. I wish that peace, assurance, and hope for others, that they might be brave, and fear God alone.


18 posted on 06/21/2012 8:58:57 AM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: polkajello

This calvinist just checked and I am not supposed to be part of this particular discussion.


19 posted on 06/21/2012 9:01:46 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: TheGunny

The only reason we think foreknowledge and choice are incompatible is because we think w’in the context of time. God is above time. He created time. For him to know the end from the beginning is part of what being above time entails.

As finite creatures w finite minds it is impossible for us to imagine the workings of the infinite mind of a Supreme Being who created everything we see and experience, including time. For that reason, it’s very easy to imagine that foreknowledge precludes choice. But knowing in advance how a person will decide does not force that decision. It only involves knowledge of the choice, a knowledge entirely possible for God precisely because He is not constrained by time as we know it.


20 posted on 06/21/2012 9:02:33 AM PDT by Fantasywriter
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