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[Why I Am Catholic]: Because I Love the Bible [Catholic and Open]
Patheos.comYIMCatholic ^ | August 30, 2010 | Frank Weathers

Posted on 04/16/2012 4:21:51 PM PDT by Salvation

Because I Love the Bible

Posted on by Frank Weathers
 

Here is a reason that answers the question posed by this blog daily that I’ve never written about yet. So here goes: I love the Bible. Well, duh, Frank you may be thinking, of course you do. Well, let me be more specific. I love the entire Bible and every single book therein, including all the books that Martin Luther tossed out during the Protestant Reformation.

I have some mechanical ability, which I have written about in this space once or twice. And I know a thing or two about removing parts from a motor, or adding them, for example. To make a long story short, you don’t remove parts from an engine, leave them off, and expect the motor to work. Remove a turbocharger from a diesel engine, for example, and you will have a motor than runs, but it will run like a sick dog with absolutely no torque. What’s the point of that?

Of course, the other possibility is that you can add parts to a motor in an effort to make it stronger. “Soup it up,” so to speak. Usually this results in some additional power and fun, but at the expense of the longevity of the motor. In other words, you might make more power, but you will probably wind up grenading the motor as well. Oops.

So when I was coming around to the idea of converting, see, I wanted to know what was the scoop on these “extra” books in the Bible. Like a mechanic, I was wondering if the Catholic Church had decided to throw some aftermarket parts onto the motor, if you follow me. You know, like adding a supercharger to a motor that was already strong.

So I grabbed my souvenir Catholic Bible, from my first failed attempt at RCIA class,  and I started looking at these mysterious books. As a result, I discovered some wonderful passages from books that were in the Bible that I had never heard of. Like the one from the first reading from Mass yesterday:

Sirach 3:17-18, 20, 28-29

My child, conduct your affairs with humility, and you will be loved more than a giver of gifts. Humble yourself the more, the greater you are, and you will find favor with God. What is too sublime for you, seek not, into things beyond your strength, search not. The mind of a sage appreciates proverbs, and an attentive ear is the joy of the wise. Water quenches a flaming fire, and alms atone for sins.

Um, not very scary, is it? As a matter of fact, don’t those verses make all kinds of sense? And there are 50 more chapters of this book to sink your teeth into.  Then I found these verses from the first chapter of the book entitled Wisdom,

Love justice, you who judge the earth; think of the LORD in goodness, and seek him in integrity of heart; because he is found by those who test him not, and he manifests himself to those who do not disbelieve him. For perverse counsels separate a man from God, and his power, put to the proof, rebukes the foolhardy; because into a soul that plots evil wisdom enters not, nor dwells she in a body under debt of sin. For the holy spirit of discipline flees deceit and withdraws from senseless counsels; and when injustice occurs it is rebuked.

Wow, I thought. Seek the Lord,  just like it says in Psalm 105, but with a twist for clarity.

For wisdom is a kindly spirit, yet she acquits not the blasphemer of his guilty lips; because God is the witness of his inmost self and the sure observer of his heart and the listener to his tongue. For the spirit of the LORD fills the world, is all-embracing, and knows what man says. Therefore no one who utters wicked things can go unnoticed, nor will chastising condemnation pass him by.

Of course! God knows all, sees all. GPS has got nothing on God. It says so right there in 1 Samuel 16:7.

For the devices of the wicked man shall be scrutinized, and the sound of his words shall reach the LORD, for the chastisement of his transgressions; because a jealous ear hearkens to everything, and discordant grumblings are no secret. Therefore guard against profitless grumbling, and from calumny withhold your tongues; for a stealthy utterance does not go unpunished, and a lying mouth slays the soul.

Again, there is nothing strange here. There was a lot of “grumbling” going on in Numbers(14:27), for example, remember? And the command to not lie? That’s right there in the Ten Commandments.

Court not death by your erring way of life, nor draw to yourselves destruction by the works of your hands. Because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living. For he fashioned all things that they might have being; and the creatures of the world are wholesome, and there is not a destructive drug among them nor any domain of the nether world on earth, for justice is undying.

I remember clearly thinking to myself after reading this particular passage, “where has this book been all my life?” No wonder I feel immortal, because, gulp (!) I was created to be immortal.  And then I realized there are 18 more chapters in this book too?

And so it goes, as I explored, and continue to marvel at, the wonders of Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, and 1 & 2 Maccabees. The passage in the New Testament that sealed the deal for me was when these verses in Hebrews chapter 11:32-35,

What more shall I say? I have not time to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, did what was righteous, obtained the promises; they closed the mouths of lions, put out raging fires, escaped the devouring sword; out of weakness they were made powerful, became strong in battle, and turned back foreign invaders. Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection.

Could only seem to be understood by referring to 2 Maccabees chapter 7:1, 13-14. Take a look,

It also happened that seven brothers with their mother were arrested and tortured with whips and scourges by the king, to force them to eat pork in violation of God’s law.

After he had died, they tortured and maltreated the fourth brother in the same way. When he was near death, he said, “It is my choice to die at the hands of men with the God-given hope of being restored to life by him; but for you, there will be no resurrection to life.”

And then I learned that all of these books had been in the Bible since the beginning of Christianity. They had been in the Old Testament, but got tossed when Luther decided to toss them. At this point, I had to concede three things. 1) I’m not a biblical scholar; 2) The Catholic Church, the institution that assembled the Bible, is the Authority, and further, it has the Authority to decide what books belong in the Bible and what books don’t; 3) These allegedly disputed books were in the Septuagint, which happened to be the authoritative Old Testament Canon in place while Our Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth.

At Mass today, for example, the gospel reading is from Luke and begins like this,

Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day. He stood up to read and was handed a scroll of the prophet Isaiah.(Luke 4:16-17)

What the passage doesn’t say, of course, is that He could possibly, on a different day of the week, or on a different day of the liturgical calendar, have been handed a scroll from Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, or 1 & 2 Maccabees. These books were in the scrolls too, when God walked upon the earth. I don’t know for sure, but like I said, I’m not a biblical scholar. Which is why I rely, again, on the authority of the Church.

So the mechanic in me was left with only one question to consider. As a Christian, did I want to go along with a stripped version of the motor, the one missing a few parts, with all of the pitfalls associated with that, or go along with the original version of the motor; the one that has all of the original parts, all in the proper place.

It really was not a difficult choice to make for me. Especially after I learned that Luther didn’t like the book of James or Revelation either. Lucky us, he left those in because leaving those “parts” out would have been like forgetting the oil sump pump and the oil pan.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; septuagint
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I've saved this for a long time. Seems like a good time to post it for education's sake.
1 posted on 04/16/2012 4:22:00 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Frank tells it how it is Ping!


2 posted on 04/16/2012 4:33:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because I Love [All of] the Bible [Catholic and Open]

There, fixed it for you.

3 posted on 04/16/2012 4:40:35 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

Thanks, good fix.


4 posted on 04/16/2012 4:44:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because I Love the Bible [Catholic and Open]
Behold! The Holy Week Treasure Map | Why I Am Catholic
[Why I Am Catholic}: A [Chesterton] Poem and a Prayer for Michaelmas
[Why I Am Catholic]:Welcome to the Ever Persecuted Church! [Catholic Caucus]

[Why I Am Catholic]: Because Vincent de Paul Was Once A Muslim's Slave
[Why I Am Catholic]:Welcome to the Ever Persecuted Church! [Catholic Caucus]
[Why I Am Catholic]: Lent And Holy Week (A Primer) [Catholic Caucus]
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because God Became Man (Despite His Flawed Human Ancestors)
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary
Why I Am Catholic: For Purgatory, Thank Heavens (Ecumenical)
(Why Am I Catholic?) For Peace While Suffering (A Few Words for Wednesday)
[Why I am Catholic]: Because I Love the Bible
(why am I Catholic?) Because I Awoke from a Long, Bad Dream
Why I Am Catholic: For All the Saints: Bernard of Clairvaux

5 posted on 04/16/2012 4:47:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

bkmk


6 posted on 04/16/2012 5:21:51 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Sergio

Marker


7 posted on 04/16/2012 5:37:33 PM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: Salvation

Call me a crank, but I get annoyed by how much of Catholic apologetics are aimed at Protestants. Maybe I have this attitude because I’ve spent most of my life in non-Protestant areas, but I think Catholic apologetics should focus more on converting agnostics, atheists, indifferent people, and the like, since they seem to be more common these days than sincere Protestants (and Catholics.) Don’t get me wrong, apologetics aimed at Protestants are valuable, but it seems like Protestants are, to paraphrase Rush, living in the heads of Catholic apologists rent free.


8 posted on 04/16/2012 6:23:02 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon

Talk to Frank Weathers. I think he mnay have been a convert, but don’t know for sure.

I’m only the messenger.


9 posted on 04/16/2012 6:35:32 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I’m not criticizing you or even Frank Weathers really.

Just a general comment.


10 posted on 04/16/2012 6:40:11 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon
Don’t get me wrong, apologetics aimed at Protestants are valuable, but it seems like Protestants are, to paraphrase Rush, living in the heads of Catholic apologists rent free.

That happens when your "opponent" is right. They get way under your skin.

11 posted on 04/16/2012 8:31:44 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Salvation

Thank you and bless you Salvation.


12 posted on 04/16/2012 8:57:13 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: GOP Poet

Hey, if you’ve got an “in” with the Lord, my foot needs to get healed. LOL!


13 posted on 04/16/2012 9:09:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I thought Christians were supposed to love God and Jesus, not some book that’s been re-translated a couple of dozen times by whoever happened to be in charge of the scribes at the time.


14 posted on 04/16/2012 9:13:18 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Salvation

Prayers up for you and your foot my dear :).


15 posted on 04/16/2012 9:14:09 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: Salvation

The Biblical emphasis which is the heritage of the Protestant churches is visible even in the Architecture of its buildings. In the Catholic church the altar is central. There the sacrifice of Christ is believed to be renewed in the mass. In the Protestant churches the pulpit is the center of attention. It is essentially a stand to hold the Bible in a position where it is easy for the preacher to read because the reading and explanation of the Word of God is central. The Bible contains everything that is necessary to bring the Christian to perfection. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. The Bible contains all that is needed to bring us to faith in Christ, and to help us grow in that faith. (John 20:30-31; 2 Timothy 3:16-17).


16 posted on 04/16/2012 9:22:37 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Colorado Cowgirl

Sorry, but you need more than the Bible. Are you saying you can go out and commit adultery, kill your children, cheat on your income taxes, speed on the highway, have an abortion.....and all you need is the bible?

That idea doesn’t work for me, for those are mostly sinful — speeding could be OK on the way to the hospital — but how would one live with these sins on their soul, knowing they has disobeyed God and the Word — Jesus Christ.

Is the Holy Spirit really active in their life?

Hmmm.


17 posted on 04/16/2012 9:31:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

James 1:19-27 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.


18 posted on 04/16/2012 9:51:16 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Colorado Cowgirl

James also tells us that faith without works is empty — nothing.


19 posted on 04/16/2012 9:55:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colorado Cowgirl

Faith Alone or Faith plus Works?

Jam 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

Jam 2:26 - faith without works is dead

Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love

1 Cor 13:2 - faith without love is nothing

Jn 14:15 - if you love me, keep my commandments

Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments

1Tim 5:8 he who doesn't provide for family worse than unbeliever.


20 posted on 04/16/2012 9:59:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I agree: Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works. James 2:26


21 posted on 04/16/2012 10:36:30 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Salvation; metmom; RnMomof7; CynicalBear; svcw; caww; daniel1212
What the passage doesn’t say, of course, is that He could possibly, on a different day of the week, or on a different day of the liturgical calendar, have been handed a scroll from Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, or 1 & 2 Maccabees. These books were in the scrolls too, when God walked upon the earth. I don’t know for sure, but like I said, I’m not a biblical scholar. Which is why I rely, again, on the authority of the Church.

I think it should be pretty obvious that the author is NOT a "Biblical scholar". If he was, he would know that the "Apocryphal" books would NEVER have been included in the temple collections of the Torah, the Psalms and Proverbs and the Prophets - major and minor - the Jewish canon. The Jewish religious leaders in Jesus' day would NOT have made reading any of these extra books part of the Sabbath observance. So, no, Jesus would not have read from them on another day.

You post about this topic many times, Salvation, so you may have saved this one "for a long time" but it certainly isn't the first time you have posted Protestant-baiting and provoking threads. Seems like for "education's sake" we may need to have more than one viewpoint. I agree with the poster up thread who remarked that you should be more concerned with reaching the lost for Christ than sparring with non-Catholics. Roman Catholic threads dominate the Religion Forum every day so I guess you think that's what you're doing. I still wonder why most of these Catholic/Protestant "battles" start from threads of articles posted over and over again. We'll not shy away from a good argument when our faith is slammed. You should know that by now. I pinged a few others who feel the same.

22 posted on 04/16/2012 10:40:30 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation

Some have thought, that Paul and James were not in agreement on the subject of faith. Those who thus conclude mistake both these inspired men of God. Paul shows that works without faith will not justify, and hence lays the emphasis on faith; James shows that faith without works will not justify. Paul, indeed, shows that faith alone is worthless (1Cor 13:2), and in Heb 11:1-40, he emphasizes works as the demonstration of faith. The two writers are in agreement, and all seeming disagreement is due to the fact that they are seeking to correct different errors, and hence look at the matter from different points of view.


23 posted on 04/16/2012 10:49:11 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Salvation; Colorado Cowgirl
Sorry, but you need more than the Bible. Are you saying you can go out and commit adultery, kill your children, cheat on your income taxes, speed on the highway, have an abortion.....and all you need is the bible?

Okay, she DID say the Bible was given to us as our guide from God, so how do you turn that into accusing her of saying you can go out "and commit adultery, kill your children, cheat on your income taxes, speed on the highway, have an abortion.....and all you need is the bible"? If we didn't HAVE the Holy Scriptures, we wouldn't even KNOW we were sinners:

Galatians 3:19-29
Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian (schoolmaster) until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 3:19-26
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Any person who has received Jesus Christ, believed on Him to save them, is born again by the grace of God and the Holy Spirit indwells them as teacher and guide. HE opens the Scriptures to our hearts and that makes the Bible our guide because it is Divinely-inspired and infallible. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Luke 21:33)

24 posted on 04/16/2012 11:00:27 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation; Colorado Cowgirl
>>James also tells us that faith without works is empty — nothing.<<

I thought this article was about using and loving the Bible Salvation. If it is, why do you not use the whole thing?

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

25 posted on 04/17/2012 4:44:33 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation

Interesting. That’s why I’m not a Catholic - because I love the bible.


26 posted on 04/17/2012 4:49:35 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: boatbums; Salvation; metmom; RnMomof7; CynicalBear; svcw; caww; daniel1212

I had sort of decided to allow this thread to die a natural death. Everyone knows the RCC does not have scripture as its central authority.


27 posted on 04/17/2012 4:51:42 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; Monkey Face; RIghtwardHo; pieces of time; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


28 posted on 04/17/2012 4:59:49 AM PDT by narses
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To: CynicalBear

Yet it is the Catholic Church who gave to the world the Bible as we know of it.


29 posted on 04/17/2012 5:02:14 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: CynicalBear

-—the RCC does not have scripture as its central authority.——

SOLE authority. That’s Luther’s tradition. It’s not even in the Bible.

What did Jesus say?

“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.”

Not churches, THE church. Singular.


30 posted on 04/17/2012 5:02:48 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: CynicalBear; smvoice
I had sort of decided to allow this thread to die a natural death. Everyone knows the RCC does not have scripture as its central authority.

Fish not biting today? Where is your orbiter smvoice?

31 posted on 04/17/2012 5:05:33 AM PDT by Hacksaw (If I had a son, he'd look like George Zimmerman.)
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To: Biggirl

-—Yet it is the Catholic Church who gave to the world the Bible as we know of it.-—

If the Church is an unreliable teaching authority, then the Bible itself would have to be unreliable. Protestantism saws off the branch it’s standing on.

If the Church once taught without error, but now does, then the gates of hell would have prevailed against Christ’s Church. His Church would be void.


32 posted on 04/17/2012 5:16:18 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

That is one of the factors why I just do not understand why some Protestants self-interpit the Holy Bible.


33 posted on 04/17/2012 5:20:03 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl
>> Yet it is the Catholic Church who gave to the world the Bible as we know of it.<<

And God allowed Satan to be used to show the faithfulness of Job. He also used the heathens to punish the Israelites. The Romans crucified Jesus which brought our salvation. Just because God uses some group or people doesn’t make them right with God.

34 posted on 04/17/2012 5:34:07 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Lurker

Love of God compels us to love all that reflects God: the Saints whom He inspired, and the books He inspired them to write.

I agree that the less translationg, the better. The modern Protestant translations are particularly awful.


35 posted on 04/17/2012 5:38:57 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Colorado Cowgirl
the pulpit is the center of attention

Naturally, where Christ is not present at the altar the preacher gets all the attention to himself.

36 posted on 04/17/2012 5:40:38 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; CynicalBear; svcw; caww; daniel1212
the "Apocryphal" books would NEVER have been included in the temple collections of the Torah, the Psalms and Proverbs and the Prophets - major and minor - the Jewish canon

Nor are we Jews.

our faith is slammed

It deserves to.

37 posted on 04/17/2012 5:43:26 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
>>“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.”<<

You forgot to include more of that passage.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The “church” in that instance was the local group of believers, not a central overall ruling organization.

>>Not churches, THE church. Singular.<<

You mean like the “church” at Corinth? Or like the “church” at Ephesus. Or maybe the “church” in Smyrna? How about the “church” in Sardis or the “church” of the of the Laodiceans?

Interesting how they were not included in some overarching ruling hierarchy like the RCC isn’t it?

38 posted on 04/17/2012 5:46:48 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Hacksaw; smvoice

Looks like you took the bait however.


39 posted on 04/17/2012 5:48:35 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

40 posted on 04/17/2012 6:02:58 AM PDT by narses
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To: CynicalBear

-—You mean like the “church” at Corinth? Or like the “church” at Ephesus. Or maybe the “church” in Smyrna? How about the “church” in Sardis or the “church” of the of the Laodiceans?——

Jesus would not COMMAND us to take our disputes to THE Church, unless It was His Church (SINGULAR), a visible Church, and unless it taught authoritatively.

Otherwise, His COMMAND would be impossible to follow. His command would be void.

Therefore, any individual church, to be fully in communion with Christ’s Church, would have to be obedient in its teachings to those teachings proclaimed by the apostles, or their successors, the bishops, when meeting in Council, or the Pope, when invoking his infallible teaching authority.


41 posted on 04/17/2012 6:05:08 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; CynicalBear

Yep you are arguing the odd views of a poster (CynicalBear) who claims that Catholics are idolaters, that those who celebrate Easter and Christmas are pagans and who claims that even the idea of church on Sunday is a man made tradition and apparently not either Christian or Biblical.


42 posted on 04/17/2012 6:12:26 AM PDT by narses
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To: Salvation

Thank God no one gets robbed, tortured and murdered anymore for reading it in anything other than Latin! ‘Twasn’t always so.


43 posted on 04/17/2012 6:14:23 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: CynicalBear

But in the end, God works out all things for the good.


44 posted on 04/17/2012 6:22:46 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: narses

Yet even those who are Bible-only Christians forget that there are good Bible teachers who are Catholic, such as Scott Hahn and Stephen Ray.

http://www.catholic-convert.com/


45 posted on 04/17/2012 6:33:21 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl
>> But in the end, God works out all things for the good.<<

Those whose actions are used by God for His good don’t necessarily enjoy that good.

46 posted on 04/17/2012 6:49:10 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Marker


47 posted on 04/17/2012 7:32:02 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: CynicalBear

In the short term it takes place it does not seem good, but it is worked out to be good in the long term.


48 posted on 04/17/2012 7:34:26 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Jack of all Trades

‘Twas never so. If you read even a flawed translation, it was bad in the sense of the 12th century when there was the flawed Albigensian translation which portrayed the flesh as evil, the world as evil and death the best way out.


49 posted on 04/17/2012 7:36:00 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: narses; St_Thomas_Aquinas

Folks like that lose more and more of their faith in Christ and being more and more pagan each time with their rejection of the faith from, through and in Christ.


50 posted on 04/17/2012 7:36:47 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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