From Rome to Christ

Banner of Truth Trust ^ | Gearoid Marley

[johngrace]

Well your first part is interesting. But to be Fair I know believers in Christ who act upon being a christian, who claim the same. The image I have is to over exaggerate to make a point. I do not believe most of these christians believe like your implying but some “look’ like it yes. Only God Knows what is in the heart.

[JLLH]

I think we both know the implications were there. It does distress me that the Gospel has been so maligned on this thread. Protestants would NEVER and DO NOT advocate in any way “whole sale sinning” as implied on some of the posts here. When one is indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit (which comes with repentance and salvation) one is a “new creature”. As the Scriptures say “The Old things are passed away”. As another poster stated here if the fruit isn’t in evidence, there’s no true salvation, but the fruit is the EVIDENCE of the faith — not salvific in itself. That is basic to most Protestant testimonies of the Gospel. (I won’t say all because the term “Protestant” to most Catholics implies anyone who isn’t Catholic — which isn’t so, historically, but that’s a subject for another day - and that covers too much ground for such generalization.)

[Cronos]

oh we do, that's why we believe the literal word in John 6 where Christ inaugurates the Eucharist.

Our Lutheran, Orthodox and Anglican traditional friends believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist as do we.

Some of those under that wide umbrella term Protestant (which I don't think is a correct term -- see next post) believe in the presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist -- do you?

If not, then why not spend time reading God's written word?

[Cronos]

Also, God’s Word as referenced in John 1 is Jesus Christ — the Bible is the written word, not completely God’s Word which is Jesus.

[Cronos]

The reason I don't use the term Protestant and thereby state that there cannot be a term anti-P is because each has its own separate religion.

Many Baptists for instance will insist that they are not Protestant

Then again there is a wide range of contradicting beliefs -- Lutherans believe in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Baptism, while Baptists and Presbyterians will say there is no Real Presence in the Eucharist.

Then again there is the Church of Christ which has its own beliefs that some others say are Pelagian.

Then you have Benny Hinn with his 9 gods

Then the Arminian v/s Calvinist fundamental distinction etc.

It is more apt to consider each group on its own merits -- Presbyterians, Lutherans, Evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Methodists, Anglicans, Adventists, Christian Scientists, Unitarians etc.

[Cronos]

Note that some have pointed out that sinning to increase the grace is also valid. It depends on which groups one clubs under that umbrella term — which is why I prefer not to use the umbrella term

[Campion]

"Banner of Truth" ... funny name, that. See, that's the "Banner of Truth" in the UK, which is Calvinist, but there's also a "Banner of Truth" in the US (www.banneroftruthonline.com), which is Church of Christ.

One "Banner of Truth" preaches Calvinist predestination; the other preaches baptismal regeneration and an Arminian soteriology. At least one of them has to be a "Banner of False Teaching and Bad Exegesis," but which one?

Which fact neatly epitomizes the problem with Protestantism: everyone gets to decide for themselves what the truth is, based on Their Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture ... meaning that there can be no real, objective, truth. It's the problem that Marcus Grodi ran into as a Presbyterian pastor when he realized he had no real grounds for believing that he was right in what he preached and the Lutheran pastor down the street was wrong. It's what led him into the Catholic Church.

[Campion]

The Bible instructs us to confess our sins to God, not to human priests.

Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. -- James 5:16, NKJV

And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” -- John 20:22-23, NKJV

Wow, he really was Biblically illiterate at Maynooth ... and nothing has changed since!

[Iscool]

Calvinism selectively cherrypicks verses to fit its theory while ignoring those that object to it.
What objectively on the basis of scripure alone makes the Calvinists right and the Arminians or Lutherans wrong?

Your religion is just as guilty and even more so...

[Iscool]

We Catholics do have the Holy Spirit. In fact the Holy Spirit guided us as we canonized the scriptures and is still guiding us (and Protestants). Somehow I find it hard to believe that nobody found Jesus until after the Reformation. Praise Jesus that I found him in the Lutheran Church and haven’t lost him despite being received into the Catholic Church.

Catholic theology tells us and them (Catholics) that the Holy Spirit indwells the clergy only...

We are often mocked on this forum when speak of Christians being in Christ and Christ in us...

Bible tells us that we individually have confirmation from the Holy Spirit that we are the children of God; and being children, we are heirs...Not that we will be heirs...But right now, we are heirs...

That statement brings hoots and hollers from the Catholics on these threads...

And I would assume the same Catholics are laughing at you behind your back when you make those statements as well...

So tell me, being indwelt with God (Holy Spirit), how do you justify trying to get into the presence of Jesus (God) when you eat the wafer when you are already in his presence 27/7???

My Inlaws are Lutherans...I have no reason to believe they are not Christians...My Father in law picks a prayer to say before meals at family get togethers...There seem to be realy decent people...

They have always been very active in the church... You could not however get either one into a conversation about God...They don't have the foggiest idea what's in that bible...They don't have a clue what God says, about anything...But they do have a lot of respect for the Catholic religion...

[starlifter]

yawn

[Iscool]

This is sterile. If he really did this He would show why his knees hurt in descriptive words. No true human being especially an opposite of this so-called stereo type complaint would forget this part of pain.

Why would he be in pain??? If I was to do something as foolish as that, I'd wear knee pads...

[Iscool]

There are a lot of protestant “theologians” who do not have the intellectual capabilities to ever become a Catholic priest.

We can't all be brainiacs like you guys and Peter...Peter must have studied the Five Foot Shelf of Classics in between casts with his Shakespeare rod and reel...

You are light years away from the qualifications Jesus put on folks that he picked for church leaders...

[Iscool]

Where did you get that bible you worship? Not from any protestants.

My bible has no connection whatsoever with the African Catholic bible...

[narses]

dangus wrote:

I will state categorically that this person is a bald-faced liar. There is no way on Earth that a seminarian wouldn’t learn about absolution, since he is required to communicate it.

As to the plainly ridiculous claim that he didn’t get any scripture studies: A quick check on the Maynooth curriculum confirms that students learn in their first year alone:

Revelation and Faith (”Revelation” is how Catholics will sometime refer to entire corpus of scripture.)
Introduction to Biblical Greek
Introduction to Biblical Hebrew
Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin
Scripture Studies 1: Eden to Exile
Scripture Studies 2: New Testament

Plus, they are required to perform the Holy Offices, which are scripture readings every three hours. Not to mention, of course, the fact that their theology courses are biblical as well.

Why do Calvinists feel they must slander Catholicism?

[narses]

[Iscool]

Stop being spiritually lazy and thinking that intellectual religion will save you.
As St. Paul also says in Romans 2:13,”for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.”

How is it that an intellectual like yourself neglected to read the next chapter in the book...

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Does those verses make any sense to you or are you completely blinded to what is simply says??? Or do you refuse to acknowledge them because they completely destroy your theology???

[Iscool]

“I believe in Jesus and am not under the law, so I can do what ever I want and still get saved.”

Are you under the law???

[afraidfortherepublic]

The Catholics consolidated and preserved the scriptures that comprise the Bible. What part of that don’t Protestants understand? Just because the the Ps removed a couple of books doesn’t mean they wrote it. ;^)

[surroundedbyblue]

“My bible has no connection whatsoever with the African Catholic bible... “

This is one of the most pathetic posts I’ve read. So sad...