Posted on 10/23/2011 4:30:28 PM PDT by freejohn
I hope that it's okay to post this in the Religion forum!?
I have been thinking about this for quite some time now and have come to my own conclusion and that is .. GOD HAS TO EXIST and not only does he exist .. He is the main argument Against the now popular 'Multi-verse' scenario!
Scientists from many different areas are pondering an infinite number of universes to explain our existence.
They talk about 'string theories' and 'infinite universes' where anything and everything can and does exist!
An example may be that in one universe, I am alive but in another I never was.
In one universe, I am a doctor while in others I may be a lawyer or an Indian Chief while in THIS one .. I'm just another 'smuck'! *)
IF the multi-verse theory were correct then GOD would HAVE to exist simply because 'Scientists' say ALL things MUST take place in 'Infinite Universes'!
Now .. Wouldn't it make sense that if GOD were to exist in even one of these universes then NONE of the rest of those universes could or would exist!?
GOD is a GOD of ORDER and Not a GOD of DISORDER so-o-o .. HOW could such a chaotic universe or in this case Chaotic Universes exist!?
I believe that Science has backed itself into a hole on this one!
(or maybe just created another paradox?)
What do you think?
If you were able to get beyond the multi-use of the word 'exist' in my ramblings .. I would Really like you Scientific and Religious thinkers input on this! 8)
#1 The believers who accept Christ and go into the Kingdom will be able to do all they desire. With faith all things are possible. We will become like Him.
#2 The only limitations that God has are those He has self-imposed on Himself. If He were to do them then He would not be God (for example to sin or be imperfect).
No, I don't believe that the Earth or the Universe were created in a literal 24 hour day.
As a matter of fact, the Bible is it's own source of this NOT being the case.
I don't have my bible in front of me but .. Somewhere in the Genesis account it talks about "IN THE DAY" that all these things were created.
This scripture follows the days of creation story that is first laid out.
There are also scriptures that talk about "A day is a Thousand Years as a Thousand Years is a day"!
(I probably mauled that one but .. you get the idea?)
Space:1999?
Thanks for that!
Jesus, OBVIOUSLY, was right. Some people will choke on a gnat (John 3:16) and turn right around and swallow an elephant (the drivel in this article).
I cannot speak for or against multiple “other” universes. But I have chapter and verse for the future of THIS ONE....
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
He fully intends to enjoy in the future what he was cheated out of when Adam pulled a John McCain on Him. He is going to spend eternity with the family He created and loves, right here on a new Earth......at least for some length of “time” in the infinite future. For those of us who believe Him and accept His Word....we have all the “time” in the universe!
If you base your reasoning on a false assumption (there is a multiverse), then you can arrive at anything. So, no, this is not proof.
Romans 1:20 if you want proof of God. Start reading there, and take what 1:20 says, and look for truth.
The universe is existent in it’s tri-unity. The whole universe if built as 3 in one.
Very Good!! I didn’t expect anyone to get the reference. I’m impressed.
I too have struggled with the timeframe of Genesis and concluded with the literal reading of it. To create a universe in six days is something only an extraordinaire God would be capable of. Because God is the Author of time He could just as easily fast forward events to include lights from the stars to illuminate our skies as we can set the timer on a microwave. This is not deception but common sense and gives those who wish to argue against the plain Word of God something to ponder.
The Talmud tells us that the soul of Adam was created at five and a half days after the beginning of the six days. That is a half day before the termination of the sixth day. At that moment the cosmic calendar ceases and an earth based calendar starts. . How would we see those days stretched by a million million? Five and a half days times a million million, gives us five and a half million million days. Dividing that by 365 days in a year, that comes out to be 15 billion years. NASA gives a value of about 14 billion years. Considering the many approximations, and that the Bible works with only six periods of time, the agreement to within a few percent is extraordinary. The universe is billons of years old from one perspective and a mere six days old from another. And both are correct!The five and a half days of Genesis are not of equal duration. Each time the universe doubles in size, the perception of time halves as we project that time back toward the beginning of the universe.
As I posted in my other thread .. The Bible itself points out that DAY does not necessarily mean 24 hours.
If someone has a Bible handy, they may want to look up the second part of the Genesis account where it says .. "In The DAY" that all of this was created.
This is written After the six days of creation account is given.
I'm just guessing that this is to point out that GOD has no clock sitting upon his desk!? 8)
My impression is that you appreciate logic. So, in the interest of logic: order under God is defined by God. So it doesn’t make sense to think of God’s order as something that can be defined by anyone but God.
“There are bubbles of steam rising up. There could be no bubbles, or one, or many. Each may call itself a Universe”
A bubble of steam can only be an analogy for a universe, but not an actual universe.
I feel that I must warn you that you're walking into 'CULT' territory here! 8)
All kidding aside .. GOD DID create the heavens for the ANGELS and THE EARTH for MAN to live on Forever!
That is Clearly laid out in Scripture and one other thing .. Whatever GOD sets out to do .. MUST be done for he is GOD!
I haven't seen anywhere where GOD changed his mind on Where Man is to spend eternity!?
“The broadest definition of the universe can be found in De divisione naturae by the medieval philosopher and theologian Johannes Scotus Eriugena, who defined it as simply everything: everything that is created and everything that is not created.” (Wikipedia (for what it's worth)).
Consider that there turned out to be more to the Universe than there was thought to be. What was considered to be the Universe turns out to be one of the Multi-verses within the Universe.
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If the “Uni” in Universe derives from the Latin for One, the word “Universes” is kind of contradictory.
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“IF the multi-verse theory were correct then GOD would HAVE to exist simply because ‘Scientists’ say ALL things MUST take place in ‘Infinite Universes’!”
What I've read that they've said is (more or less) that in order for God to be God everything that could happen has to happen. (I may not have quoted that accurately.)
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“Wouldn't it make sense that if GOD were to exist in even one of these universes then NONE of the rest of those universes could or would exist!?”
No. First, given what I wrote above, those universes aren't really universes, but multi-verses within the universe. I don't see why he can't exist in all the multi-verses within the universe. (I know that's not the way “they” talk about it, but sometimes you have to kind of translate in your own head what people say in order to make sense of them.)
Second, what you wrote can be read to imply that God is dependent on a universe to exist. I don't see that. He exists independently but within the Universe (including its Multi-verses) He created.
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“HOW could such a chaotic universe or in this case Chaotic Universes exist!?”
Granted, you and I are unable to make sense of it, but doesn't mean it's Chaotic. The problem more likely rests with our lack of ability.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/download/id/66526/name/CIRCULAR_REASONING_ ~ this is a shot of the fundamental heat patterns at the limit of resolution at the very edge of the Universe. It’s pretty obviously one of a number of scientific flask brackets ~ so...................
In doing this I was more constructive for God than studying this theory.
We are in the flesh, we are sinners, and we need a savior.
Believe in Jesus Christ, that he is who he claims to be, repent and be baptized in the Holy Spirit, AND LIVE.
I will wait for answers to the mysteries of creation when I see him in heaven face to face.
Time is concurrent with motion. To reverse time would require a reversal of all motion, with each object in the universe going backwards through the same trajectory. Each object, on all levels. And the same thing with forward leaps in time.
And yes, I agree that God is not restrained by time. So what I meant was time travel is impossible in a context of scientists conducting experiments using their own merits.
One point that should be kept in mind, when we talk about the creation account is that Moses wrote what God showed him.
It’s not likely that God provided Moses with charts and graphs to explain what was shown. So Moses would interpret what he saw, as he understood it.
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