Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Godís Law for Today
Truth in Action Ministries ^ | 10-12-2011 | D. James Kennedy

Posted on 10/16/2011 9:57:12 PM PDT by ReformationFan

Today we see an age of anomie—lawlessness. The laws of God are being ignored and His commandments jettisoned. Indeed, it is a lawless age in which we live—reminiscent of what Jesus said in parable about what would come when He went off to a far country. The citizens would hate Him, and they would cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:14).

The great question before the nations is: Will men and nations submit to having Jesus Christ, the Divine Creator of the world reign over them?

God’s purpose in this world is to establish a kingdom that shall be perfected only when Christ returns—but a kingdom wherein men and women yield themselves in glad and willing submission to the scepter of their King. However, in our time they are in rebellion against that rule.

In the 19th century there were three powerful voices crying out, in effect, “We will not have this man to reign over us.” One was Karl Marx, who said that men are ruled only by economic forces. A second was Sigmund Freud, who claimed that men are controlled by their sexual desires. The third was Friedrich Nietzsche. He declared that God is dead; therefore men are controlled by their own will to gain power and replace God.

These voices were all crying out in concert against the reign of Christ in this world. Before Nietzsche declared God dead, Fyodor Dostoyevsky said, “If God is dead then all things are permissible.” In the 20th century people have endeavored to try all things, and they have brought upon themselves incredible woe and grief and shame. Indeed, is there any shame, any grief, any woe, and any sorrow that has not been the result as men and women have thrown themselves against the Law of God? They have thought they could break His commandments with impunity—but it cannot be done. Engrave this on the walls of your minds, my friends: You cannot break the Law of God; you can only break yourself upon it.

The law that God gave to mankind from Sinai had three distinct kinds. First, the civil laws for the nation of Israel, which was a theocracy ruled by God. Those civil laws disappeared with the disappearance of the theocratic state of Israel in 70 A.D.

Second, the ceremonial laws, which prefigured and foreshadowed the coming of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. When He came, those ceremonial laws were done away with. The third part of the law given by God at Sinai, the moral law, is a reflection of the eternal and holy nature of God. This is eternal and immutable. This has never passed away and will never pass away. It is the Law of the Living God for His moral creatures.

The moral law is subsumed in the Ten Commandments. All other moral laws of the Bible can be placed under one or another of these various commandments that God has given. There are actually three uses of the moral law today: by its promises and its threatenings it restrains the wicked impulses of ungodly men; it convinces men and women of their sin and brings them to Christ; and it provides a guide for the redeemed in how to live their lives for God.

The great desire of every newborn Christian is that he might please his Savior and his Father. My friends, strive to do what God has commanded, and you will have enough to keep yourself busy for more than one lifetime. It is true that we are not saved by the law; nevertheless, the law remains as the way we can please God and show our gratitude to Him.

Adapted from Dr. Kennedy’s sermon, “The Moral Law of God.”


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: 10commandments; anomie; ceremoniallaw; civillaw; coralridge; coralridgepca; djameskennedy; djkennedy; dostoyevsky; fyodordostoyevsky; godslaw; godslawfortoday; kennedy; law; lawlessness; luke; luke19; luke1914; morallawofgod; pca; presbyterian; tencommandments; themorallawofgod
Great teaching from the late Dr. D. James Kennedy
1 posted on 10/16/2011 9:57:16 PM PDT by ReformationFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan
For the most part a very good article. I will however take objection to a couple that are related

Second, the ceremonial laws, which prefigured and foreshadowed the coming of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. When He came, those ceremonial laws were done away with

only done away with according to the doctrine of man, not YHVH who was very direct when he said they are permanent Holy Convocations. I can not figure why religious leaders, to this day, have no concept of what the word forever means. Either they are ignorant or they are calling YHVH a liar & Covenant breaker.

the law remains as the way we can please God and show our gratitude to Him

No, the law remains as our way to please our FATHER. It is what is used to measure of our Faith & Trust in YHVH through HIS Son Yah’shua Messiah. It is what we will be judged by on the final Day of Atonement that ushers in the new age.

2 posted on 10/16/2011 10:46:39 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan; Elsie

So out of curiosity, how many commandments are Christians bound to? Elsie says zero...”just believe in the one he has sent” although she did bring up the 4 that James said in Acts 15 when justifying not observing Sabbath. I have seen the number 0, 2, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14, 684 and 1050! What a mess. You would think after 2000 years the number would be defined.


3 posted on 10/16/2011 11:39:09 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: patlin

CHRIST/LAW
SHOULD WE SAY CHRIST vs. the LAW or CHRIST and the LAW?

1. “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17)

2. “Therfore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20)
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea we establish the law?”

3. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin
because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.” (Romans 6:14-15)

4. “Wherefore, my brethern, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4)

5. “But now we are delivered from the law, being dead wherin we are held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:6)

6. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, comdemned sin the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:2-4)

7. “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.” (Romans 14:4)

8. “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:10)

9. “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24)


4 posted on 10/17/2011 1:13:58 AM PDT by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: LetMarch
Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Acts 15:18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.[c] 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[d]from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

1 John 2:3
[ The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1 John 3:24
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified

Romans 3:Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

I guess you did not take notice that at the beginning of Romans 7, Paul specifically stated that he was only talking to those who knew the law of adultery. It is reference to

Jeremiah 3:8
Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

One can take any line of Scripture they want; out of context by leaving out that which defines & explains the TRUTH thereby allowing the deceit to be exposed. haSatan does not care about those who believe in Messiah but dont’ believe the Torah is for them and those that believe the Torah brings justification through works regardless of belief in Messiah. haSatan is only cares about coming after & destroying those that keep the commandments AND the testimony of Yah’shua Messiah. WHY, because according to YHVH, they are dead in their sin already.

Therefore, sin that one already has the knowledge of the law that is indeed sin and has chosen to follow the doctrine of man that allows the sin to continue rather than the doctrine of Yah’shua Messiah, haSatan thinks you are already his. I wouldn't be so quick to brag about it or for that matter promote it.

It has taken me 5 years & the death of a son to suicide after he left the Christian faith for Buddhism, drugs & reincarnation. It was a terrible blow. We were very active in the church & I had taught the heresy to my children & the children of the congregation for 20 years. Our son was the shining example of knowledge of the NT according to Christianity. While all the other teenagers selected John 3:16 for their confirmation affirmation Scripture, our only son chose 1 Peter 5:5 "Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “ God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you."

Not quite the typical Scripture one would expect to hear from a 16 yr old. So pardon me for seeking the truth which YHVH finally revealed to me & only wishing to obey HIM and bring HIS TRUTH to the nations in order to start helping others to turn back to the TRUTH and away from the religious doctrine of men.

5 posted on 10/17/2011 2:51:28 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: LetMarch

correction: One can take any line of Scripture they want; out of context by leaving out that which defines & explains the TRUTH thereby allowing the deceit to be exposed. haSatan does not care about those who believe in Messiah but dont’ believe the Torah is for them and those that believe the Torah brings justification through works regardless of belief in Messiah. WHY, because according to YHVH, they are dead in their sin already. haSatan is only cares about coming after & destroying those that keep the commandments AND keep the testimony of Yah’shua Messiah.


6 posted on 10/17/2011 2:57:38 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan
The moral law is subsumed in the Ten Commandments. All other moral laws of the Bible can be placed under one or another of these various commandments that God has given. There are actually three uses of the moral law today: by its promises and its threatenings it restrains the wicked impulses of ungodly men; it convinces men and women of their sin and brings them to Christ; and it provides a guide for the redeemed in how to live their lives for God.

The great desire of every newborn Christian is that he might please his Savior and his Father. My friends, strive to do what God has commanded, and you will have enough to keep yourself busy for more than one lifetime. It is true that we are not saved by the law; nevertheless, the law remains as the way we can please God and show our gratitude to Him.

D. James Kennedy ping!

7 posted on 10/17/2011 5:04:33 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ReformationFan
God’s Law for Today

John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


8 posted on 10/17/2011 5:53:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
...how many commandments are Christians bound to?

Mark 12:28-34

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

9 posted on 10/17/2011 5:58:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

HMMmmm...

Where did THAT come from??


  1. You shall have no other gods before me.
  2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
  3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
  5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

10 posted on 10/17/2011 6:01:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: patlin
Acts 15:18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.[c] 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[d]from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Well; at least PART of it was posted.


Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]
 18 things known from long ago.[c]

 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
11 posted on 10/17/2011 6:03:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
Sums it up quite well!

It is true that we are not saved by the law;
nevertheless,
the law remains as the way we can please God and show our gratitude to Him.

12 posted on 10/17/2011 6:05:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: patlin
the law remains as the way we can please God and show our gratitude to Him

Actually, the way to Please God is by Faith. "And without faith it is impossible to please God". Simple obedience to the law without faith does not please God. For "whatever is not from faith is sin" Romans 14:23

13 posted on 10/17/2011 6:09:21 AM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
...how many commandments are Christians bound to? Mark 12:28-34

Sheesh Elsie! Now, it is 2? Oh and you forgot the first part, Hear oh Israel...is the Jewish Shema...Deut 6:4...said by Jews 2 times a day.

So again Elsie...give me a number please...2? 10? 12? 11? 1050? How many comandments for Christians?

14 posted on 10/17/2011 7:51:10 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

I took from the NKJV, mind sharing what version you took yours from so I can loook it up for myself?


15 posted on 10/17/2011 8:46:00 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Never mind, I see you took from the letter to the ecclesia who were already hearing Moses every Sabbath so there was no need to tell them to keep something there was no question about. Talk about a reach to excuse transgression as not to convict ones own heart.
16 posted on 10/17/2011 8:49:37 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
A child can say they have all the faith in the world in their parents, but if the parents say, do not touch that hot stove & the child touches it anyway & burns themselves, where was the Faith, the trust of the child in the parents knowing what is best for them? It is the same with YHVH. Is HE not our FATHER? Or does a child know more than the FATHER who created him?
17 posted on 10/17/2011 8:57:13 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: patlin
Faith from your parent is not the same thing as Faith in or from God.

The first thing to know about faith in God is that it is given by God. Romans 12:3 "each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned". From this we know that it is God that gives the faith (not man) and that He has sovereignly given a portion to each He has given it.

With this Faith, we can exercise it, acting upon our relationship with Him (though the Love He has implanted) in the doing of His will. But instead of cringing at the law, we now love it since we love Him who made it and out of that love obey Him and "Love one another" as the Lord Jesus Christ gave commandment.

The law still convicts us and is most useful in the examination of ourselves (particularly before communion) which leads us to repentance. But the law is not the start of the Christian life, but it is faith.

Again, I remind you "whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" Romans 14:23 "For the Righteous shall live by Faith" Romans 1:17 Also forget not the Curse "For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Galatians 3:10. For those who rely on the Works of the Law (rather than Faith) do err.

18 posted on 10/17/2011 10:16:51 AM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
Faith without obedience is no faith at all.

Through Yah’shua’s blood we will never be condemned to death for sin. The cost of the sin was removed, but His blood did not remove the rules of YHVH’s house. Shama = hear & obey has always been the faith of YHVH’s children.

Thus the hypocrisy of religious doctrine that says part of the Torah still exists while other parts that will make one uncomfortable because they will have to give up pagan religious practices they so love only proves their love of the flesh is greater than that of YHVH. How did that work out for the 3000 at the base of Mt Sinai who were worshiping a golden calf in the name of YHVH. He didn't see it as being so innocent.

Repent means turning BACK TO YHVH’s Torah, not saying I'm sorry for sinning for words are nothing without action.

Romans 14:23 "For the Righteous shall live by Faith"

In Romans 1:17 Paul is quoting directly from the Tanakh, Habakkuk 2:4 which contains the exact same word for faith that is in Deut 32:4 & Ps 119:86. It speaks to the curse for those who think salvation comes by works without the testimony the Yah'shua is the Messiah. But it is very interesting you chose it because Faith without works is also no faith at all. And the same goes for the verse you posted from Galatians. But what is the context of Galatians?

Romans 14:23 without the edits(purposeful omissions in order to change the meaning of the text) by man, in this case, you: 23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin

4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

When read in context as this is one entire letter, not a bunch of sub-chapters, Paul is calling the Galatians out for falling for oral rabbinical law that was added to Torah as a requirement that had to be done before on received salvation. Before they came to Messiah, they were under slavery & bondage of the same kind of laws of men under pagan worship. Now the Galatians were turning away from the liberty of Torah that Yah'shua preached and were turning back to old practices of following the law of man rather than trusting in the Torah of YHVH lest they believe as the rabbinical told them that salvation can not be achieved unless works is 1st completed. Which is the exact opposite of the covenant of the Promise. Abraham received grace because he trusted completely and walked the faith. Faith is not carnal, faith is picking up your cross & doing knowing the YHVH is smarter than we are, thus HIS Torah is the path that leads to the narrow gate.

19 posted on 10/17/2011 11:23:29 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
well that got all messed up when I moved a couple of lines.

Through Yah’shua’s blood we will never be condemned to death for sin. The cost of the sin was removed, but His blood did not remove the rules of YHVH’s house. Shama = hear & obey has always been the faith of YHVH’s children.
Thus the hypocrisy of religious doctrine that says part of the Torah still exists while other parts that will make one uncomfortable because they will have to give up pagan religious practices they so love only proves their love of the flesh is greater than that of YHVH. How did that work out for the 3000 at the base of Mt Sinai who were worshiping a golden calf in the name of YHVH. He didn't see it as being so innocent.

Romans 14:23 “For the Righteous shall live by Faith” : Romans 14:23 without the edits(purposeful omissions in order to change the meaning of the text) by man, in this case you: 23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin

In Romans 1:17 Paul is quoting directly from the Tanakh, Habakkuk 2:4 which contains the exact same word for faith that is in Deut 32:4 & Ps 119:86. It speaks to the curse for those who think salvation comes by works without the testimony the Yah’shua is the Messiah. But it is very interesting you chose it because Faith without works is also no faith at all. And the same goes for the verse you posted from Galatians. But what is the context of Galatians?

4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

When read in context as this is one entire letter, not a bunch of sub-chapters. Paul is calling the Galatians out for falling for oral rabbinical law that was added to Torah. Their law that said circumcision was a requirement that had to be done before one received salvation. Before the Galatians came to Messiah, they were under slavery & bondage of the same kind of laws of men of pagan religions. Now the Galatians were turning away from the liberty of Torah that Yah’shua preached and were turning back to old practices of following the law of man rather than trusting in the Torah of YHVH. Abraham received grace because he trusted completely and walked the faith. Faith is not carnal, faith is picking up your cross & doing; knowing that YHVH is smarter than we are thus HIS Torah is the path that leads to the narrow gate.

Repent means turning BACK TO YHVH’s Torah, not saying I'm sorry for sinning for words are nothing without action.

20 posted on 10/17/2011 11:47:41 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: sr4402; patlin
10 For as many as are of the works of [o]the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “(N)CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”

Paul is wrong. He is misquoting scripture. He says that those who are of the works of the law are cursed. G-d forbid! Read Psalm 119. 176 verses...the longest in the bible. The subject? The beauty of the law. How David delights in the law. It is not a curse...it is a BLESSING!

Paul is misquoting Deut 27, the curses of Mt Ebal. If you dont do certain things of the law...you will be cursed. BUT if you DO the law, what will happen?

1 “(A)Now it shall be, if you diligently [a]obey the LORD your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the LORD your God (B)will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and (C)overtake you if you [b]obey the LORD your God:

This one of many of Pauls false teachings. David calls the law a wonderous thing...Paul calls it a curse. I'll go with David.

21 posted on 10/17/2011 1:42:30 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
Paul never condemns the law, on the contray, he cherished Torah. He was speaking of the final Yom Kippur after the trumpets have all been sounded, period.

I understand you are Jewish, therefore please do not take my posts regarding Yah’shua our Messiah out of context. I completely understand that YHVH is in control & HE will reveal Yah’shua as HIS Son who is the Messiah to the house of Judah in HIS time, not ours. For now the house of Judah has the Torah, others have the Messiah & then there are those of us who have both. In the end we will all come together as one as prophesied and those who believe Messiah but not Torah are going to have a very rude awakening.

I would like to apologize to you for my forefathers who have continually persecuted the house of Judah for nearly 2000 years. I also would like to thank you & your brethren from the bottom of my heart for preserving the integrity of YHVH’s Word for us.

22 posted on 10/17/2011 2:29:26 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: patlin

Thanks for the reply, you are very kind. Shalom Shalom


23 posted on 10/17/2011 3:38:52 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
Paul calls it a curse. I'll go with David.

Paul says depending on the law in order to get to heaven is a curse. One just will not make it by depending upon the law because humans fail way to much in comparison to the demands of a Holy God.

But just for arguments sake, what is covering your sins then if one believes Christianity and Paul is wrong?

24 posted on 10/17/2011 3:59:11 PM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
Paul says depending on the law in order to get to heaven is a curse.

Paul is wrong. That is basically saying that G-d is tricking us or a liar (G-d forbid) G-d says in Deut 30, regarding the law. (paraphrasing)...This law is not to difficult for you....it is not out of reach... is it up in heaven that it must be brought down? Is it across the sea that we must go and get it? NO! It is near to you!...in your mouth and in your heart that you may do it! Was G-d just saying that? Knowing that it was really a curse? He let his chosen people suffer under the illusion that the law was sufficent, when it really wasnt for 1,500 years from Moses to Jesus? G-d forbid!

The "old testament" people did not get to heaven by doing the law only anyway. Forgiveness (many examples in the OT) is through prayer, repentance, fasting and charity. That coupled with doing ones best to do-keep the mitzvot (commandments)is what gives us a relationship with G-d and forgiveness.

According to Pauls view (or perhaps the church) David would not have gone to heaven. There is not a single case in all of scripture where someone sins and is then going off to do a blood sacrifice for forgiveness! Why? A)Because it is the LEAST effective means of forgiveness (prayer, repentance and obedience is superior) and B) Sacrificial sins were primarily for UNintentional sins. Only about 6 intentional sins could be atoned for by sacrifice (and even then blood is not required, Lev 5:11,12) The rest of intentional sin has ALWAYS been atoned by G-ds grace through prayer, repentance, fasting and charity.

And that is the answer to your question...

25 posted on 10/17/2011 4:44:47 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: patlin
Never mind, I see you took from the letter to the ecclesia who were already hearing Moses every Sabbath so there was no need to tell them to keep something there was no question about.

They WERE?

26 posted on 10/17/2011 8:34:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: patlin
They WERE?

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

27 posted on 10/17/2011 8:35:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
Thank you for your well written answer.

Am taking it that your are writing from a Jewish perspective and wanted to know, from that perspective, how sins were atoned for. And you have answered that question.

You replied that it is by "prayer, repentance, fasting and charity". In other words by your own actions.

Now you have not refuted the statement that "G-d will not allow any sin to go into heaven". Therefore, you must be hoping that your "prayer, repentance, fasting and charity" at the moment of death will give you the absolutely clean slate and permit entrance to heaven.

It is the same as the lady who said if you have 'any un-confessed sin in your heart you will not go into heaven'. For in making that statement, she is saying that she too hopes that her 'confession' of any sins on her death bed will allow her entrance to heaven.

Both puts the burden on you that you will know every last sin on yourselves and be able to get rid of them in that very last instance. For if you fail to do so - well, as you know, eternal destiny depends upon it.

However our faith says that G-d is correct in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." we contend that blood is required for every sin down to the last jot and tittle of failure to keep the law - the Absolute law of G-d. We believe that David and all the OT saints were justified through their faith in that symbol of that blood sacrifice.

Which our belief says was accomplish on the cross. And I am sure you have already heard.

But the difference is who it is dependent on. In the case you described and the lady, it is upon yourself and you must do it absolutely perfectly and without error and at the time you are dying.

As for me, I am not perfect and I make lots of mistakes. And I make errors particularly when I am under stress or ill. Not only this, but I have a unconscious tendency to overlook some errors and concentrate instead upon those I consider more urgent. And over a lifetime, despite my digging and trying to root all of them out, and knowing the exactness of the law - I am sure there are enough hiding under the rug - to keep me from heaven if I depend upon myself.

The good news is that G-d provided the first sacrifice "And YHWH made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them. which pointed to the ultimate sacrifice of which you know I am referring.

For we believe it is the same faith in what G-d would do, and did, that counts.

Please give careful thought of what I've written as I have of yours. Please think if is possible through your own works at your dying moments to get into heaven? Or is it better to rely on what He has done?

28 posted on 10/18/2011 2:05:23 AM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
Thank you for your well written answer.

Sure and thanks for the kind reply.

You replied that it is by "prayer, repentance, fasting and charity". In other words by your own actions.

Well, it is a two way street. G-d has made it clear in scripture, that we are responsible for our own sins and no one can do it for us. We can not "offload" our sins.

Deuteronomy 24:16: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. To be written out of God's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. God's response was "No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:"

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Eternal; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Eternal, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Eternal said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee:

So, there you have it. No one can atone for our sins on our behalf. He who sins...must deal with his own sin (G-d is a conservative! Personal responsibility!)

It is incumbent upon us to ask G-d for forgiveness, repent, turn away from sin and or fast, give to charity. And G-d through His mercy (chessed) promises to forgive us. THAT is the two way street of "keeping the law". It doesnt mean you are a perfect human being if you "keep" the law. It means you are doing your best to do your part...And by G-ds grace...he forgives us. How do we know? What is my proof?

Abraham: Not perfect. Yet G-d says: Genesis 26:I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

Abraham kept the law. Even before the law was given! Was he perfect? no.

Noah was righteous, David had a heart for G-d, Hezekiah was righteous and Caleb too. And there are others obviously.

So, the system works! G-d did not lay out a preplanned failure for His people! That would be the work of a mean or even evil god, to have omniscience and set up a law that is impossible to do...when telling us we CAN do it in Dt 30!

G-ds also tells us the law is forever!(Psalm 111 and many others) Not to be changed: Dt 4:2 2 (C)You shall not add to the word which (D)I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Dt 12:32 “[a](C)Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; (D)you shall not add to nor take away from it.

The law including the sacrifical system is returning during the messianic era. Ezekiel 44. Even the Gentiles must be cicumsized to enter the temple grounds...The priesthood is restored...and they will teach the law...the clean and unclean.

G-d also forbids human sacrifice. Jesus was a human therefore ineligeble for sacrfice.

Both puts the burden on you that you will know every last sin on yourselves and be able to get rid of them in that very last instance....

As I have noted earlier, the sin bearing IS ours because G-d has said so. As long as we are walking with G-d, in this two way street, we are doing what is required. Proof?

Micah 6: 7 Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams, In ten thousand rivers of oil? (NO! my emphasis) Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? (No human sacrifice!) 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God

However our faith says that G-d is correct in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." we contend that blood is required ...

Respectfully, this is a misquotation of scripture from the book of Hebrews..I think chapter 9. You have to look carefully what Lev 17 is saying. It says dont eat blood! It is not a food source! Dont let anyone in your midst...even gentiles eat blood! James repeats this command in Acts 15. Bloods only use is to be sprinkled on the altar and the remaining portion dumped on the ground and then covered. Now heres the critical part:.....It does NOT say....that blood is the ONLY means of atonement. Again..Lev 5:11 Flour is a sin offering! And these scriptures...

..if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. [2 Chronicles 7:14]

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. [Psalm 51:16-17]

Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. [Psalm 40:6]

Take words with you and return to the Eternal. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the bulls of our lips. (Hosea 14:2 Prayer!)

He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. [Proverbs 28:13]

He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy; he is restored by God to his righteous state. [Job 33:26]

The story of the book of Jonah. Jonah tried to escape from doing God's will, and preaching to the People of Ninevah. After the problem with the great fish, he goes to the people of Ninevah, says five words to them (in the original Hebrew) and what do they do? They fast ("let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water" Jonah 3:7) just as the Jews do on Yom Kippur. The people of Ninevah also prayed ("Let them cry mightily to God." Jonah 3:8) just as the Jews do on Yom Kippur. And, finally, the people of Ninevah stopped doing Evil, started doing Good ("Let everyone turn from his evil ways and from the violence which is in his hands." Jonah 3:8) as we are, hopefully, inspired to do on Yom Kippur. What was God's response? God forgave them of their sins because of their actions ("When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God repented of the Evil which He had said He would do unto them, and He did not do it." Jonah 3:10) Please note that the text does NOT read that God saw their sacrifices, the People of Ninevah were never commanded to sacrifice.

G-d gave us these means of Grace. They are forever and not to be changed. These are not words but His. Jews are obligated to the Torah. Non-Jews are obligated to keep the laws of Noah (Genesis 9)given to all manking prior to the law of Moses. The sheva mitzvot or the 7 commandments. (Which is probably what James was getting at in Acts 15)

shalom shalom FRiend!

29 posted on 10/18/2011 12:43:10 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960

A bump for your wonderfully eloquent post...thanks again from a seeker who found the right path with help from your postings!


30 posted on 10/18/2011 12:47:21 PM PDT by magritte
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: blasater1960
Thank you for your reply.

There is only one more thing before I go.

My wife is an ER nurse at the 6th busiest ER in the nation. She sees folks dying a lot.

Those who are trusting in themselves are usually freaking out with all kinds of worries, sometimes cursing G-d, sometimes cursing others and themselves.

But she says those who have placed their faith upon G-d who has atoned for their sins are at peace ready to move on.

It is just an observation. Peace to you as well.

31 posted on 10/18/2011 12:52:58 PM PDT by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: magritte

Baruch HaShem! Thank you Magritte..I didnt know that!...it is time to let people know...things arent what they seem! Or have been taught...It is HaShem!!! Melech ha’olam!


32 posted on 10/18/2011 2:41:54 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson