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Is Mormonism a Cult?
Truth in Action Ministries ^ | 10-14-2011 | Truth in Action Ministries

Posted on 10/15/2011 9:50:41 AM PDT by ReformationFan

A Statement from Truth in Action Ministries, Oct. 14, 2011

"While having the deepest respect for the moral and ethical standards of the Mormon people and their church, we must sadly reject their teachings as false and not Christian." –D. James Kennedy, Ph.D.

Texas pastor Robert Jeffress generated headlines last week when he told reporters that Mormonism is a cult—a belief system at odds with historic Christianity.

Since then he has been accused of bigotry, called a “poster boy for hatred,” and a “moron.”

Despite those harsh charges, Jeffress, who backs Texas governor Rick Perry for the GOP presidential nomination, has made it clear that his view of Mormonism is theologically grounded and not an expression of bigotry. He made it clear that he would be willing to vote for Romney in the general election if he wins the Republican nomination and said he thinks that Romney is a “fine family person.”

Dr. Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, does, however, stand by his statement that Mormonism is a theological cult—and we stand with him.

(Excerpt) Read more at truthinaction.org ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: christianity; coralridge; coralridgepca; cult; djameskennedy; djkennedy; evangelical; fbcdallas; jeffress; kennedy; lds; mittromney; mormon; mormonism; pca; perry; presbyterian; rickperry; robertjeffress; romney; truthinaction
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1 posted on 10/15/2011 9:50:45 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

If the Christ, the deity, only begotten Son Of God, God incarnate is not the Christ (annointed) and ONLY way for salvstion ... it is a false Christ, thus, by definition, a cult.


2 posted on 10/15/2011 9:53:09 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: ReformationFan

I dont know if theyre a cult, but their belief system indicates they are certainly NOT Christian.


3 posted on 10/15/2011 9:55:57 AM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: ReformationFan

At what point is a cult a religion? Lasting 100 years? Hitting a million followers? I think LDS may not be Christian, but they are no longer a cult.


4 posted on 10/15/2011 10:01:06 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: Soothesayer9

The reformed LDS chapter, or whatever they call themselves (breaking with many of the traditional/original JS doctrines) can also be classified as a “Cult of Mormonism”.

“Cult” is NOT “OCCULT”. There is a big difference.


5 posted on 10/15/2011 10:01:34 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: tbw2

Is Satanism or a cult?


6 posted on 10/15/2011 10:02:00 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf
Definition of CULT 1: formal religious veneration : worship 2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents 4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator 5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion As far as I an concerned, all religions are cults!
7 posted on 10/15/2011 10:03:19 AM PDT by eastforker
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To: tbw2
Oops .. unfinished thought ...

Is Satanism a "religion" or a cult ?

8 posted on 10/15/2011 10:03:38 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: ReformationFan

Yes, they fit all 3 disciplinary definitions - anthropological, sociological, theological.

And I was one once upon a time - definitely a non-Christian cult.


9 posted on 10/15/2011 10:04:40 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: ReformationFan

Yes...it is a cult. Read “Kingdom of the Cults” for a listing of Christian Cults and why they are classified that way....Christian Cults because they are off shoots from Christianity.


10 posted on 10/15/2011 10:10:41 AM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: ReformationFan

Kennedy said it well. Rallying around the extra-Biblical teachings of someone with no proof is a cult. Scripture has ancient documents and archaeology. Mormonism/RLDS has none of that. Smith has been proven false on a number of levels.


11 posted on 10/15/2011 10:19:06 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: ReformationFan

I find it hard to describe a denomination that has survived multiple leadership changes as being a cult. Maybe a sect but not a cult.


12 posted on 10/15/2011 10:21:46 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Soothesayer9
I just happened to have re-read the first Sherlock Holmes story, "A Study in Scarlet", and the story is of revenge killings for trespasses wrought by Brigham Young & Co back in SLC.

(I particularly liked the ending with a newspaper stating that foreigners should settle their problems in their own lands, not bringing their troubles to England.)

As it was constituted at the time, it probably was a cult, at least from the view of ACD. Sort of a blend of cultism and crony religiousness to benefit those at the top.

13 posted on 10/15/2011 10:27:36 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: ReformationFan

This thread is one of the reasons I do not belong to any organized religion. I cannot believe what I am reading.


14 posted on 10/15/2011 10:31:50 AM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: fso301
Leadership changes does not affect the basic overall doctrines and beliefs of a cult. They remain a cult based on their beliefs not their leadership...although with LDS there's certainly ‘a line of people being programmed’ for leadership so they are never without one of their fully programmed “priests” to assume that leadership.

LDS pretty much meets every point of the definition of a cult....especially thru their recruitment bait and switch deception, and the strongholds they have on it's membership..which is fear based..... Not to mention their rituals, which on the deeper level would make most people run were it not for the fact by the time they are pre-programmed for these rituals they pretty much have lost their ability for critical thinking. Which is exactly what cults do.... Remove that ability over a period of time and with very effective means of doing so.

15 posted on 10/15/2011 10:36:28 AM PDT by caww
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To: Soothesayer9
I dont know if theyre a cult, but their belief system indicates they are certainly NOT Christian

This is the major problem with Christianity & all other religious denominations who do not claim to be Christian but still believe in YHVH & Messiah, they think Yah’shua came to rebuke His Father's children and start over entirely with pagans. But is that what Yah’shua really said? Is that why He really came?

Jn 10:3 This is the one the gate-keeper admits, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep, each one by name, and leads them out. 4 After taking out all that are his own, he goes on ahead of them; and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice.[CJB] (In context, Jn 10-11)

Ez 34:12 Just as a shepherd looks after his flock when he finds himself among his scattered sheep, so I will look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered when it was cloudy and dark.[CJB]
Mt 15:24 He said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Isra’el<.b>.”[CJB]

Gen 48:19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.” [NKJV]

In this last verse, multitude of nations in Hebrew is “melo ha goyim” which is the exact same Greek spelling used in Rm 11 for “fullness of the gentiles”. Dispersed Israelites living among the gentiles (HO 8:8); (Jer 23:27)-leaders teach them a different name for YHVH; (Gen 49:220 -they are a wealthy people; (Amos 9:9) -they will be sifted from among the gentiles; (Jn 7:35) -dispersed among the Greeks; (Rm 9:24-26, Rm 12:14-15)(Ho 1:10) -they already have the Law (Torah) written on their hearts-(Jer 31:33; Deut 29-30)

So when Yah’shua said that He ONLY came for the lost sheep of Israel, why was that?

Jer 3: 8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear - instead she too went and prostituted herself. 9 The ease with which Isra’el prostituted herself defiled the land, as she committed adultery with stones and with logs. 10 Yet in spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Y’hudah has not returned to me wholeheartedly; she only makes a pretense of it,” said ADONAI. 11 Then ADONAI said to me, “Backsliding Isra’el has proved herself more righteous than unfaithful Y’hudah. 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north: ‘”Return, backsliding Isra’el,” says ADONAI. “I will not frown on you, for I am merciful,” says ADONAI. “I will not bear a grudge forever.[CJB]

Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers on the day I took them by their hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt; because they, for their part, violated my covenant, even though I, for my part, was a husband to them,” says ADONAI.[CJB]

This is why Paul starts out in Rm 7 by saying that he is only speaking to those that know the Law, the Torah, that defines adultery. Paul was specifically referring the law of divorce & now that the husband was dead, they are free from the law of adultery that kept them from reentering HIS House. They are now free to be married again. This is the real prophesy of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

But does this just include only physical seed? Absolutely not! And He addressed it straight away upon leaving Egypt when Moses asked about the Egyptians who had joined the exodus.

Ex 12:49 The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you.
Nm 15:16 “The same Torah and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.”... 29 “no matter whether he is a citizen of Isra’el or a foreigner living with them. You are to have one law”

Throughout the entire Scriptures, YHVH has only made covenants with HIS people, the house if Israel & the house of Judah, who He would eventually call again just “Israel”. But should a foreigner (pagan gentile) wish to join in HIS House, they have always been required to keep & follow YHVH’s Torah.

Rm 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against YHVH(God); for it is not subject to the Torah(law) of YHVH(God), nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please YHVH(God).

Through the death & resurrection of Messiah, the Torah Law of adultery that kept the scattered sheep from entering back into the fold was no longer held against them. YHVH does not force Himself upon anyone, thus the new covenant is not for a new people, it is so that the scattered sheep who are living outside YHVH’s House because of the divorce laws, now are free to rejoin the House if they so choose. The foreigners(pagan gentiles) have always been welcome to join as long as they accept & abide by the rules of the covenant which is YHVH’s Torah.

Thus, there is a hint of truth in all denominations of all religions, but the vast majority, who claim by saying they believe in Messiah is enough & thus are not subject to Torah, are highly misled and are out of covenant(outside House but welcome to enter in anytime by accepting Moses (Torah). YHVH’s children are Israel no matter the denominational label man has attached to them. They are a lovely Green Olive Tree, full of good fruit. (Jer 11:16)

Jeremiah 31:31 [ A New Covenant ] “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—[NKJV]

I don't see pagan gentile anywhere in this New Covenant of Messiah. Further more, I have yet to have one clergy or parish member of any denomination under the umbrella of Christianity show me where this “new covenant” for “pagan gentiles only” is written. The entire Scriptures is about bring YHVH’s House back into order. In unity. Under One Torah. One can not claim to be of any of YHVH's Covenants if they have never accepted & followed Torah in the 1st place.

One Nation! Under YHVH! With Liberty & Justice for All!

Kinda blows a hole through Christian doctrine that teaches the NT ushered in a new set of covenant laws, banishing Jews to that of the old. The old was never old, it has always been current and if anyone is in covenant for the most part, it is the Jews. At least they still keep Torah for the most part; though they generally practice it via the Talmud(their additions to the Torah) which Yah’shua rebuked when He walked in the flesh. This is why YHVH did not divorce the house of Judah, even though they had added to Torah, they were at least preserving the basic integrity of it. Well, that and the covenant YHVH made with David that HE would never divorce the house of Judah.

Does any religion have it right? Absolutely not, not even Judaism, but it is our Jewish brethren(house of Judah)that all denominations of Christianity, Mormonism, Catholicism, et, etc need to take a lesson from lest we find ourselves at that wide gate that leads to destruction.

It's time to start reading & studying His Book - starting in the front rather than in the middle - lest we entirely miss the lesson/message HE is teaching/sending us.

16 posted on 10/15/2011 10:37:09 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ReformationFan
'Cult'.... from the World English dictionary..... "a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents'.

I've always thought of a cult as having a mind control component to it as exercised by their leaders. Also, it usually means that the real power is vested in one person.... not always but usually as was the case with say Jim Jones. This is different than true Christianity which vests its power in Jesus Christ. Regardless of whether Mormonism fits a particular definition of cult is probably not worth exploring..... it is already a false religion and that is all that matters as far as what one needs to know.

17 posted on 10/15/2011 10:38:54 AM PDT by hecticskeptic
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To: ReformationFan
As far as the Lame Stream Media is concerned. As of right now Mormonism isn't a cult. It is very mainstream.

After Romney gets the nomination Mormonism will be torn apart and ridiculed as the biggest cult in the history of the world. Every little questionable practice will be examined ad nauseam. It will make Free Republic Mormon discussions look tame. This is an obvious setup for the republicans.

I wish more people could see it.

But, If Romney gets the nomination it will be the first time we have a guy running that thinks he is going to be a God versus one that already thinks he is one.

18 posted on 10/15/2011 10:43:38 AM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Parley Baer
You have trouble believing there is false religion in the world?

With all the lies in the world, why would you think lying could not take place in the area of religion?

19 posted on 10/15/2011 10:43:48 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: Parley Baer

Why would you be surprised? There will always be counterfeits masqurading as the real deal, and it’s always been so.

Not just in matters of faith but pretty much anything that is good....always an opposite presentation given with just enough truth to entice the ‘uninformed’.

Additionally Christianity isn’t about being religious...it’s about a relationship with God...and that is thru His son Jesus Christ who makes that possible. All other “religions” serve dead or imagined prophets or idols but Christianity serves a risen Savior. He is alive and sits at the hand of God the Almighty.

Many false religions and occults will always use and abuse, borrow and steal, Christian verbage, language etc. becuase it works to reel people in. Without that deception people generally wouldn’t give these groups the time of day.


20 posted on 10/15/2011 10:45:22 AM PDT by caww
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To: ReformationFan

Christianity started as a Jewish cult.


21 posted on 10/15/2011 10:48:50 AM PDT by reg45 (I'm not angry that Lincoln freed the slaves. I'm angry that Franklin Roosevelt bought them back.)
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To: eastforker

Marxism is a cult.


22 posted on 10/15/2011 10:51:20 AM PDT by reg45 (I'm not angry that Lincoln freed the slaves. I'm angry that Franklin Roosevelt bought them back.)
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To: cruise_missile
As far as the Lame Stream Media is concerned. As of right now Mormonism isn't a cult. It is very mainstream.

Well we do know that mainstream media is for those who have to drink from a bottle still.... as many take the easy way out of determining what is true or not. Basically followers of whatever they are fed.

People don't want to know the truth in our day....it's too uncomfortable in a nation who is primed and ready to take in anything it's fed, often without even questioning. The "whatever" attitude is alive and growing thru every aspect of our nation. There is little spine in our people to stand up....it's just easier to let things go and not be concerned one way or another.

23 posted on 10/15/2011 10:52:15 AM PDT by caww
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To: patlin

yes, it is time to start reading and studying His book.
may i suggest you start with Matthew 21:33-43.
Jesus didn’t start over entirely with pagans, if they were still pagans they would be as lost as the unbelieving Jews Jesus was addressing. no, the Kingdom was taken from national Israel and it was given to a nation of believers, comprising Jews and Gentiles alike.


24 posted on 10/15/2011 11:01:37 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: patlin
It's time to start reading & studying His Book - starting in the front rather than in the middle - lest we entirely miss the lesson/message HE is teaching/sending us.

Well....I have read the entire bible...and it's clear to me God's not finished with Israel....further that we as Christians do believe in the Messiah... Jesus...of which the old testament clearly states said would come...and by doing so opened the way for any who call upon the name of the Lord to be saved from that which is to come.

25 posted on 10/15/2011 11:05:23 AM PDT by caww
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
What part of Exodus 12:48-50 that states that pagans, from the beginning, have always been welcomed into the House of YHVH do you not understand?

You need to get rid of the words “Jew” & Gentile” and start thinking like YHVH, “ONE PEOPLE, ONE LAW, ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY & JUSTICE FOR ALL!”

26 posted on 10/15/2011 11:08:25 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ReformationFan

See South Park for what Mormons Really Believe.

Yeah it’s a cult.


27 posted on 10/15/2011 11:14:04 AM PDT by 83Vet4Life
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To: hecticskeptic

Mormons believe this about Christ ....

“..That Lucifer, the son of the morning, is our elder brother and the brother of Jesus Christ.”

(Apostle B. McConkie Mormon doctrine p.163-164)

“...Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character (satan) that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven,”

(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pp. 50-51).

in addition....” Jesus got married at Cana and had many wives Martha, Mary and others he also had many children”

(J & D vol.1 345-346 vol.2 79-82 vol.4:259-260 the seer p.172)

This is NOT the Jesus of the Scriptures or even remotely so.

(Source: Let Us Reason)


28 posted on 10/15/2011 11:15:33 AM PDT by caww
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To: ReformationFan

It remains a heresy, as does all of Protestantism. Heresies can last hundreds of years.


29 posted on 10/15/2011 11:20:35 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: F15Eagle
Scripture has ancient documents and archaeology. Mormonism/RLDS has none of that.

Not too long ago I was reading how hard it is for them to defend they have no historical proof of the various tribes etc. they lay claim to....no artifacts...no nothing...just as you say..... Generally any former civilization has many items easily identifiable to substantiate they were present and alive.

30 posted on 10/15/2011 11:23:05 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Why would the LSM want a Mormon?

Mormonism has so many “warts” the so called middle electorate of this country will be repulsed when the Lame Stream Media declares war on Romney.

He will be so EASY to take out politically.

Romney will not only have to deal with his flip flopping he will also have to deal with Mormonism:
1. Blacks not having the priesthood until 1978.
2. Women cannot hold the same priesthood as a twelve year old boy can.
3. Polygamy has never been revealed to be a bad thing. Only that the U.S. government does not allow Mormons to practice polygamy. My own Bishop Mormon brother-in-law verified that for me.
4. Why are there so many secrets in the Temple? And do you Willard Romney participate in those ceremonies that are secret?
5. Are you wearing that underwear now?
6. Governor Romney do you believe you are going to have multiple wives in heaven (just like the Muslims) to populate other worlds?

All of the these topics are off limits now. But I can guarantee you that they will be called fair and reasonable once Governor Willard “Mitt” Romney the nomination.


31 posted on 10/15/2011 11:26:38 AM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
FYI..a gentile of any kind means out of covenant, without the Torah of YHVH.

Rm 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against YHVH(God); for it is not subject to the Torah(law) of YHVH(God), nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please YHVH(God).

It is not enough to just say “I believe Yah’shua is the Messiah” for even the devil believes that. It is when one leaves the carnal religious doctrine and accepts wholly without question the protection of YHVH’s Torah. That is when they become a full & complete member New Covenant. Yah’shua & Torah are never to be separated!

Yah’shua needed to come because YHVH divorced the house of Isra’el. YHVH never divorced the house of Judah. And any pagan from other religions are welcome to enter HIS House as long as they say “I DO” to Torah as they did at the base of Mt Sanai and turn away from pagan worship i.e. christmas & easter that YHVH told us of & spoke against in the writings of the Prophets. To be in Covenant is to fully embrace YHVH’s Sabbath, Festivals which are Holy Convocations & all HIS instructions for our daily lives that are written in the in the Torah.

YHVH has never been pleased with disobedient children but HE knows none can be perfect while in the flesh, but we are to make our best effort in pleasing HIM according to HIS Torah.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2793224/posts?page=16#16

32 posted on 10/15/2011 11:29:05 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: fso301

This is a good representation of how a cult operates we see many of this within the Mormon belief system and how they indoctrinate their members.

http://www.letusreason.org/culteac.htm


33 posted on 10/15/2011 11:29:52 AM PDT by caww
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To: patlin

so the house of Judah doesn’t need the salavation we find in Christ?


34 posted on 10/15/2011 11:34:27 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: caww

Until you realizze that Yah’shua did NOT come to form a new church called Christianity, you will continue in blindness.

Christianity is a label derived of men, not Yah’shua or YHVH. Therin lies the problem, everyone & their labels that continue to pit brethren against brethren with no regard to YHVH & His teaching what so ever becaus ethey are so consumed by their own carnal minds to see the light


35 posted on 10/15/2011 11:36:25 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: All

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons


36 posted on 10/15/2011 11:38:52 AM PDT by troy McClure
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To: cruise_missile

“As far as the Lame Stream Media is concerned. As of right now Mormonism isn’t a cult. It is very mainstream.
After Romney gets the nomination Mormonism will be torn apart and ridiculed as the biggest cult in the history of the world. Every little questionable practice will be examined ad nauseam. It will make Free Republic Mormon discussions look tame. This is an obvious setup for the republicans.

I wish more people could see it.”

Agreed. That’s exactly why the Dems and the lame stream media are doing all this “Romney is the GOP candidate with the best chance to beat Obama” spin. If Romney wins the nomination, they will then spin “anyone is votes for a Mormon against Obama is racist” 24/7 until the election.

“But, If Romney gets the nomination it will be the first time we have a guy running that thinks he is going to be a God versus one that already thinks he is one. “

Truth.


37 posted on 10/15/2011 11:40:14 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: fso301

Multiple leadership changes is irrelevant.

A cult is a religion that presents itself as Christian, yet introduces people to a different Jesus than the one who was born in Jerusalem a couple thousand years.

If the teachings of the Bible are corrected, those who fall for this deception are being robbed of a salvation experience with God. If they are not introduced to the genuine Jesus they are lost.

The cults use the same language as Christianity, but with different meanings. They shroud the deception well, and one has to press hard to find out what they are really saying.

Christians differ on many theological points, but those differences should not cause us to separate from one another. But there are fundamentals facts that are absolutely essential to being a true believer. We cannot tolerate false teachings on those fundamentals.

Those fundamentals center on the deity of Jesus, on His birth, His sacrificial death, His resurrection and on the salvation He provided to men.

When Christians find someone deceiving people with a false gospel we treat it with the same seriousness as someone giving children in the neighborhood candy laced with drugs or razor blades. We know the truth of God, of salvation through Jesus, of hell, and of the sin nature of man. If someone misses God’s grace because they embraced a deadly counterfeit it is an unspeakable tragedy. I’ve known people who wasted much of their lives in cults, and were scarred for years even after they found the truth.

If Christianity is just a “be nice” country club, then we can hang out with cultists. They just have a different focus of their club and are simply competition for members.

But if Christianity is a life and death battle with powers and principalities and rulers in high places then the cultist is an agent of enemy forces luring unsuspecting people to their destruction. His teachings must be openly opposed to make the differences between his gospel and God’s gospel evident to all.


38 posted on 10/15/2011 11:49:30 AM PDT by gitmo (Hatred of those who think differently is the left's unifying principle.-Ralph Peters NY Post)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Until you understand the difference between "nations which is equivalent to gentiles" small "g" and "Gentiles" capital "G", you can not be brought out of the darkness. Yah'shua did not speak of jotts & tittles in Mat 5:17-20 just to hear Himself speak.
39 posted on 10/15/2011 11:52:46 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ReformationFan

I don’t care about the LDS’ dogma. I care about how it is increasingly browbeating its members into open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens. This MUST be stopped by its membership.


40 posted on 10/15/2011 12:09:18 PM PDT by montag813
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To: gitmo

Yep


41 posted on 10/15/2011 12:15:43 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
so the house of Judah doesn’t need the salavation we find in Christ?

Forgiveness of sin comes through Messiah & salvation for those who believe in Him & keep His commandments. All will be judged, but only those that have both, Messiah & the Torah, will enter into the Kingdom

Romans 2:[God’s Righteous Judgment] 1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law(Torah) will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
[NKJV]

Now when Paul closes by saying according to his gospel, we already know that Paul's works are epistles not Gospels, so what did he mean by gospel? The only gospel Paul had to teach & study from was the Torah & the Prophets, the Law of YHVH & the prophesy of the coming Messiah. So by one saying that they have Messiah but yet are exempt from the Torah, they are basically condemning themselves to eternal damnation.

Messiah was the Torah in the flesh & the two were never separated. Thus the hypocrisy of all this sibling rivalry between religions of any kind.

YHVH is calling HIS people out. Either stay comfortable in your religion of the flesh which yields no fruit, or seek true Liberty through HIS Son, Yah'shua Messiah which yields fruit so bountiful it can not be counted. It's time to call the man made religious doctrines what they are, hypocritical & full of heresy so the "True Peace" can begin to take hold.

42 posted on 10/15/2011 1:00:36 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

He also did not say false teachers would arise in the end times and fool many just to hear Himself speak either.


43 posted on 10/15/2011 1:24:17 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: patlin

you really don’t know the NT at all do you?
how can you say all Paul had to teach was the Torah and the Prophets?
don’t you know Jesus taught Paul directly? read 1 Corinthians 11:23 and educate yourself.

once ones leaves Christianity, you are liable to fall for anything and it appears from your confusing and contraditory posts, you do.


44 posted on 10/15/2011 1:30:40 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: patlin
Until you realizze that Yah’shua did NOT come to form a new church called Christianity, you will continue in blindness.

“And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

What part of 'build my church' don't you understand?

45 posted on 10/15/2011 2:03:08 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive; patlin

What part of ‘build my church’ don’t you understand?

if you read her posts, she understands none of it.


46 posted on 10/15/2011 2:07:00 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Yah’shua WAS the TORAH, Yah’shua taught Paul ALL that He WAS, what part of that do you not understand?

What Christian doctrine proffers is that any one can enter a country & say, I believe & love this country and thus that makes me a citizen. Any society, whether it be on earth or in heaven needs laws in order to keep harmony & unity, but I guess you believe in the doctrine that any one can go where ever they please & claim membership for themselves without regard to the Law that says there is only ONE for ALL.

How's that working out for the US economy & the ten's of million illegal aliens we tax payers are supporting. So, I guess I could say back to you that what you are proffering is that YHVH & John lied to us when he wrote that Yah'shua was the TORAH made flesh. As all Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is the Inspired Word of YHVH.

47 posted on 10/15/2011 3:18:02 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

Jesus IS the Word of God, not WAS.

Where in the “Torah” would Paul have found what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 11:23?

you are so caught up the Law, you miss the point Jesus fulfilled the law, something no other man or woman was capable of doing.
believers are “in Christ”, so the law can no longer condemn them because the law can not condemn Christ.


48 posted on 10/15/2011 3:23:08 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: FatherofFive
What part of 'build my church' don't you understand?

I understand it just fine

However, you read “church” because that is what the English transliterated it to be from Roman Latin & what your religious dcotrine tells you it is, but the orginal Greek calls it ecclesia, assembly, the “gathering of people together in one place for a specific purpose” either religious or political.

The ROCK is the ROCK that brought forth the living water in Exodus 17 which prophesied of the living water that came from Yah'shua when the Roman soldier pierced Him in the side.

The TORAH is the ROCK and that ROCK called TORAH is Yah’shua Messiah. The two are one in the same, NEVER to be separated. One shoouldn't take things so literal as Yah'shua said (Mt 13)

“Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I shouldheal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

49 posted on 10/15/2011 3:45:08 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
I am not caught up in the LAW, I am caught up in learning who my Messiah is, why He came & what He came for.

Until one comprehends the why & what, they have not the knowledge in their hearts of who, only their carnal premise of who He is.

The Scriptures say that both are blind in part, the house of Judah because they did not recognize the Messiah when He came, but that was also prophesied that it would happen well ahead of time. Then there is the out of Covenant house of Isra;el, who knowing of the prophesy of Messiah, but not understanding why He was to come. Thus the reason for all the divorce talk, the falling away, the grace that brings them back in.

But that's ok, I have brought forward the Word of YHVH and now it is up to HIM as to whom HE choose to see & hear it.

50 posted on 10/15/2011 3:57:47 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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