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Father Pavone's Last Stand
Catholic Culture ^ | 9/21/11 | Phil Lawler

Posted on 09/21/2011 9:13:42 PM PDT by marshmallow

More than three years ago, readers on this site received fair warning that Father Frank Pavone was cruising toward a showdown with officials in the Diocese of Amarillo. Read the comment by Diogenes from August 2008, and you will find the simmering conflict neatly summarized, many months before it boiled over into full public view. Diogenes concluded his analysis this way:

The question isn't whether or not the Church will support pro-life work. The question is whether priests and religious, when they engage in pro-life work, remain subject to ecclesiastical discipline.

The answer, by the way, is Yes. You can learn that the easy way or learn it the hard way.

Now Father Pavone is learning the hard way, along with many of his loyal supporters. The controversy that finally hit the headlines last week is a sad one, a damaging one for the pro-life movement, but not a new one. It was all too easy to see it coming.

For years Father Pavone has sought autonomy for his organization, Priests for Life. His quest for independence caused some tension with the Archdiocese of New York, where he originally served. At first it seemed that tension was resolved when he moved to the Amarillo diocese. But it cropped up again with Bishop John Yanta, who had welcomed him to Texas. Finally it came to a head under Bishop Yanta’s successor, Bishop Patrick Zurek.

Bishop Zurek’s decision to recall Father Pavone to Amarillo, and restrict him to ministry there, was not a bolt from the blue, then. Father Pavone has disclosed that he had been discussing the possibility with his bishop for several months. No doubt both, the bishop and the priest, had been seeking advice from canon lawyers and support from friends, trying to influence each other, hoping to resolve the mounting tension without a public ruckus.

Especially in light of those behind-the-scenes negotiations, and the consultations that must have taken place, it is unfortunate that Bishop Zurek sloppily used the word “suspend” in the public announcement of his decision. Father Pavone was not suspended; he remains a priest in good standing. He was summoned to serve the Church in the diocese where he is incardinated. There is no question that the bishop has the authority to restrict a priest’s ministry in this way. Although Father Pavone has announced a canonical appeal, it is difficult to imagine how he could prevail.

In September 9 announcement, Bishop Zurek said that he took action because of “deep concerns regarding [Pavone’s] stewardship of the finances of the Priests for Life (PFL) organization.” But his concerns went deeper, he revealed. He was also worried about Father Pavone’s “incorrigible defiance to my legitimate authority as his Bishop.” Those two concerns, it becomes clear, were very closely intertwined.

Father Pavone says that he has answered every question the bishop asked about the finances of PFL. Bishop Zurek disputes that point, charging that PFL has managed to “rebuff my every attempt at calling for financial transparency.” How can we judge those two contradictory claims? The audited financial reports of PFL, which Father Pavone has now made public, provide a few clues. Last year PFL showed a $1.4 million budget deficit, and the group’s available cash balances dropped by over a half-million dollars. The latest PFL budget figures show an enormous $879,000 loan to Gospel of Life Ministries: another effort with which Father Pavone is personally involved. If those funds are not repaid, PFL faces an immediate financial crisis. Bishop Zurek has good reason to be worried about Father Pavone’s financial stewardship.

But financial reports only record the sums that were raised and spent; they do not necessarily tell how and why they were raised and spent. Therein lies the larger problem.

When he brought PFL to Amarillo, Father Pavone had ambitious plans to build a seminary there, and found a new religious order dedicated to pro-life activism. He raised enormous sums of money from donors who were encouraged to support that religious order and help build that seminary. But the seminary was never built, and within a couple of years the religious order had been disbanded.

In a revealing Amarillo television interview, Father Pavone admitted that much of the money raised for the seminary had been spent on “other things”—the operating expenses of PFL. Since the $10 million annual budget of PFL dwarfs the budget of the Amarillo diocese, it is eminently understandable that diocesan officials—who were hoping that a new seminary would provide benefits for their own pastoral work—would ask pointed questions about those “other things.”

Since being recalled, Father Pavone has assured his supporters that he plans to continue his pro-life activism. He has reminded reporters that he took a vow “in the presence of a Vatican cardinal” to devote himself full-time to the pro-life cause. The presence of a cardinal would not affect the binding force of a vow, of course; Father Pavone is reminding us that he has friends in high places. By insisting on his dedication to the pro-life cause, he is (intentionally?) feeding suspicions that his bishop wants to rein him in because he has been too outspoken in his opposition to abortion—an assertion for which there is no supporting evidence. But there is something even more troubling about Father Pavone’s claim here.

When he made that special vow, in August 2006, Father Pavone was founding a religious order: the Missionaries of the Gospel of Life. Two years later that order was defunct. Looking back on the order’s history today, Father Pavone is surprisingly unconcerned about its demise. “We knew it was an experiment,” he told the Amarillo television interviewer. It is odd—and not at all healthy—that the founder of a religious order would look upon it as an experiment. In the course of that interview, Father Pavone makes it clear that in his mind, the religious order was always a means to an end; it was intended to act as an arm of PFL. (As Diogenes pointed out when the order was suppressed, that was a major concern for Church officials: that a religious order might be controlled by a secular corporation.) Yet once the order was dissolved, Father Pavone’s special vow lost its force, and he became an ordinary priest of the Amarillo diocese.

Now Father Pavone wants to leave Amarillo, to become a priest in another diocese that will allow him to continue his pro-life work without unwanted supervision. His desire for complete independence is easy to understand: Which one of us doesn’t want to be free from supervision? But in light of his track record—in particular, his insouciant approach to the details of raising, spending, and accounting for money—it is equally easy to understand why his bishop would not think it prudent to grant him that degree of independence. Canon lawyer Edward Peters has written perceptively about this case in general and about Father Pavone’s quest to be free of Amarillo in particular. To state the matter in simple terms, a diocesan priest has a responsibility first and foremost to his bishop and his diocese, and only secondarily to any apostolate with which he is associated. Bishop Zurek spoke of the need for Father Pavone to “readjust his priestly bearing” and recognize that he is a priest first, an activist second. To date there is no sign that the embattled priest is getting that message.

In his quest to be rid of the irksome restrictions that he now faces in Amarillo, Father Pavone says that he will seek incardination to another diocese. That won’t be easy. He has already switched his diocesan affiliation once, and any thoughtful bishop would look askance at a priest who wanted to switch for a second time. To aggravate matters still further, another pro-life group with which Father Pavone is affiliated (as a board member) is now planning to picket Catholic churches in the Amarillo diocese. What bishop would want to take on a priest who has become embroiled in such an openly adversary relationship with his diocesan superiors? What bishop would want a priest who has made it so abundantly clear that he considers his own personal apostolate more important than the work of the diocese—to the point that he is willing to attack the diocese in order to further the apostolate?

For years Father Pavone has run PFL as his own personal fiefdom. He has been answerable only to the PFL board of directors—on which he and his paid subordinates have formed a solid voting majority. That long run of complete autonomy is now coming to an end. This is not a case in which a bishop has set out to squelch pro-life activism. It is a case in which a bishop has realized that a priest and a Catholic apostolate are both in urgent need of supervision.

Recognizing this reality may be a difficult process for Father Pavone. Until now, PFL has been his project: his baby. But he cannot continue running PFL the way he has been running it. If the mission of PFL is to continue and thrive, it will be under some new form of leadership.

Painful though it will be, Father Pavone should realize that the time has come to offer his baby up for adoption. He of all people should realize the most likely alternative: the baby will die.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abortion; babyjoseph; fatherpavone; moralabsolutes; pavone; pfl; prolife; terrischiavo; zurek

1 posted on 09/21/2011 9:13:43 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I’m still with Father Pavone on this one.

What has the Bishop of Amarillo done for unborn babies lately?


2 posted on 09/21/2011 9:15:47 PM PDT by Palladin (Rick Perry: The one with the big cojones.)
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To: All
The question isn't whether or not the Church will support pro-life work. The question is whether priests and religious, when they engage in pro-life work, remain subject to ecclesiastical discipline. The answer, by the way, is Yes. You can learn that the easy way or learn it the hard way.

Ping for later

3 posted on 09/21/2011 9:20:24 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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To: Palladin

As am I. I think Pavone should and will prevail in his goal to establish a prolife ministry not under the authority of a bishop.

The very fact that the ministry, as stated, is raising about 10 million dollars, is evidence that having it under one bishop in Amarillo is entirely unworkable.

I am not bothered by Fr. Pavone’s desire to move from NY to Amarillo, especially given that the new bishop of Amarillo is not the same bishop who was there when Fr. Pavone initiated the transfer.

I think that the bishop of Amarillo is playing games with Fr. Pavone and children’s lives. Calling him back to Amarillo, without specifying what he wants Pavone to do? Having him wait?

As for his vow to serve prolife work for the rest of his life ‘perishing’ along with the defunct order, is complete nonsense. That would be like arguing that a priest himself must give up his order of celibacy, should his order fold.

I’m even more convinced that the powers that be do not have the best interest of unborn children after reading this terrible argument.


4 posted on 09/21/2011 9:54:44 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: marshmallow

Curious how Father Pavone was ever able to evade the usual Church oversight on monies. His work has been wonderful from a media exposure standpoint to the travesty of abortion, the suffering of Terri Schiavo, and his activism has been instrumental in growing the numbers of laity into the pro-Life movement. However, the financial accounting and the red ink, the disappearance of the funding for a beautiful new and major seminary in Amarillo, and the so called “experiment” order that also failed would raise the brow and perhaps ire of any well meaning and concerned oversight authority, secular included, but certainly one’s Bishop and brother. His unhappy history with Bishops who are charged with applying a little due diligence is not helpful to his case or cause. God bless him for all that he has done well and may the Catholic pro-Life movement be blessed, favored and fruitful.


5 posted on 09/21/2011 10:07:10 PM PDT by RitaOK (TEXAS. It's EXHIBIT A for Rick. Perry/Rubio '12)
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To: reaganaut

Papist plot ping


6 posted on 09/21/2011 10:07:34 PM PDT by mrreaganaut (Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.)
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To: marshmallow
Painful though it will be, Father Pavone should realize that the time has come to offer his baby up for adoption. He of all people should realize the most likely alternative: the baby will die.

This deliberately perverse and nasty ending supports the impression that it is an effort of the Amarillo diocese to crush Pavone's pro-life efforts. The money contentions are carefully lacking in any specifics - they are implicatory and biased without admitting bias. Pavone's status as a diocesan priest has long been associated with an extended definition of the diocese as including those of the unborn, wherever they may be.

I don't particularly care for Pavone for my own reasons, but he fought for Terri Schiavo's life and he has blazed a trail for the protection of the innocent for a very long time. To misreport his activities and slander him as a rogue egotist is simply wrong - and a sign that those who contend against him know that they are the liars and schemers in this matter.

7 posted on 09/21/2011 10:59:26 PM PDT by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Talisker

Phil Lawler is a careful, thoughtful, precise journalist. I would not be too quick to dismiss anything he says. I certainly would not characterize his interpretation as perverse and nasty.


8 posted on 09/22/2011 12:21:31 AM PDT by jobim
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To: Palladin
During the Mass most Catholic churches readers give a list of petitions.

It's been a long time, a very long time since I heard anything about protecting the unborn.

9 posted on 09/22/2011 12:45:05 AM PDT by eCSMaster (Democrats: the Party of NO!)
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To: marshmallow

Power trumps charity


10 posted on 09/22/2011 2:08:44 AM PDT by veritas2002
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To: RitaOK

I’ve always found it ironic that these Church officials exercise their authority in such a strong manner (legitimately, I should emphasize) when financial matters are involved, and yet never exercise this same authority when Catholic moral teachings and even outright criminal activity are involved.


11 posted on 09/22/2011 3:23:59 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Talisker
The author has made a very legitimate point. This whole situation goes right to the heart of why priests and other religious are probably best left out of any leadership roles for organizations like this (and what I mean by "this" is a ministry like Priests for Life that functions as an important issue-oriented organization rather than a religious order).

Have a lay board of trustees run the group, and have Fr. Pavone serve as the organization's spiritual advisor and a good high-profile spokesman. This way, the organization would not be subject to oversight by a local bishop and could avoid having a priest like Fr. Pavone dragged into questions about its finances.

12 posted on 09/22/2011 3:35:01 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: eCSMaster

Me, too. We may hear these petitions in October, during Pro-Life Month, but not year round.

Unborn babies are out of sight, out of mind...in many of our churches.


13 posted on 09/22/2011 11:43:15 AM PDT by Palladin (Rick Perry: The one with the big cojones.)
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To: Alberta's Child

” I’ve always found it ironic that these Church officials exercise their authority in such a strong manner (legitimately, I should emphasize) when financial matters are involved, and yet never exercise this same authority when Catholic moral teachings and even outright criminal activity are involved. “ <<<<

Well you certainly have a point there! Chances are that both these men are fallible and imperfect as are we, but in their vocation they are in the spot light now. One has visible fruits that are visibly afforded to him by that spot light on his good deeds and therefore known to all. The other suffers for all the faithful in ways we can not see and in this peculiar case we will never know, where he is disadvantaged by the absence of a spot light on his good works and deeds, but thrust out into the bright media lights set up against him because his works are hidden and we can’t see.


14 posted on 09/22/2011 12:23:22 PM PDT by RitaOK (TEXAS. It's EXHIBIT A for Rick. Perry/Rubio '12)
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To: marshmallow; wagglebee

Wagglebee - list or not? And I’d be interested to hear your viewopoint.


15 posted on 09/22/2011 1:25:44 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah
Please ping it.

We had some very interesting posts on these two threads:

‘What bothers me the most’ - Fr. Pavone pens update from Amarillo

Fr. Pavone: don’t vote for politicians who support cracking the skulls of babies

16 posted on 09/22/2011 1:38:05 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: little jeremiah
To state the matter in simple terms, a diocesan priest has a responsibility first and foremost to his bishop and his diocese, and only secondarily to any apostolate with which he is associated. Bishop Zurek spoke of the need for Father Pavone to “readjust his priestly bearing” and recognize that he is a priest first, an activist second. To date there is no sign that the embattled priest is getting that message.

*********************************************

What is the purpose of priesthood? I fear that this is becoming a battle of wills.

17 posted on 09/22/2011 1:50:32 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Alberta's Child

No, it shows why such ministries don’t work well with oversight by one diocese.

If it were under the direct authority of the pope, that would change things, for the benefit of both Pavone and the Church.


18 posted on 09/22/2011 2:10:45 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: marshmallow; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

More on the saga of Fr. Pavone; I can't comment because I have no understanding of how the Catholic Church does things. Fr. Pavone is doing wonderful work for the unborn and the helpless and I hope that somehow or other he is able to continue his work.

19 posted on 09/22/2011 3:10:52 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: trisham

I just hope that Fr. Pavone can somehow continue his work.


20 posted on 09/22/2011 3:12:50 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah; Mrs. Don-o
Imho, he's doing very important work and by that I don't mean that it makes him important. I am afraid that at times the hierarchy of the Church may be overly concerned with organization, position and discipline. We are all human.

Pinging a knowledgeable Catholic.

21 posted on 09/22/2011 3:16:50 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: little jeremiah
I just hope that Fr. Pavone can somehow continue his work.

******************************

I feel the same. I wonder if jealousy may be a factor here. I just don't know. I think of him with Baby Joseph and Terry Schiavo, and I know that he has made a huge difference. This is of great concern to me, and I think to many, many others.

22 posted on 09/22/2011 3:21:47 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: All

That should have been Terri Schiavo. My apologies.


23 posted on 09/22/2011 3:25:04 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: little jeremiah; trisham
I'm just out-the-door to teach my RCIA class, but I wanted to jump in with just this: there is nobody in this country I respect more, as a Catholic, than Phil Lawler; so I trust his take on the situation.

I am, of course, a huge admirer of Fr.Pavone. he has done tremendous work. He does seem to be chafing under the vows of obedience he owes to his bishop --- and he is handling it "by the book," by canonical appeal, while accepting directin and assignment from his bishop. So he's putting forth a good effort to do the right thing.

It may be that Fr. Pavone needs to be released fromhis vows so he can function as an independent operator, which is possibly what he thinks he's called to be.

I will pray for all involved. I dont think there's any malice, scandal or skulduggery involved in this. It's just good men trying to live within their vows and God's will.

Obedience is always the hard one. Much harder than poverty and chastity!

24 posted on 09/22/2011 3:27:55 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My two cents' worth.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; little jeremiah

Thank you, Mrs. Don-o. Excellent analysis, and I could not agree more about the difficulty of obedience. I hope that this unfortunate situation will result in something good. I believe that it can.


25 posted on 09/22/2011 3:33:41 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: BenKenobi
Good points. But is it a good idea to set the precedent for a priest run a multi million dollar non profit with out any supervision? Father Pavone has not been accused of doing anything other than being border line insubordinate (which he is). That along will get him into a lot of trouble with the way the Catholic church is set up.

I respect Pavone, and am thankful for his work. But I can see the bishop's point. Especially with the recent examples of celebrity priests falling out in a big way.

26 posted on 09/22/2011 4:14:57 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; trisham

Thanks to both of you. I look forward to a happy resolution.


27 posted on 09/22/2011 4:32:01 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: redgolum

I don’t believe he should be left without supervision. The question is what is the best way to oversee the nonprofit?

PFL as stated raises about 10 million a year, responsible to a diocese that has about 1 million dollars. PFL has grown beyond the point where it can be adequately constrained by a diocese.

You could put them directly under Garcia in the Archdiocese of San Antonio. That would probably work better then the current situation in Amarillo.


28 posted on 09/22/2011 5:37:56 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: BenKenobi
For one thing, this isn't primarily a question about the oversight of a ministry . . . it's about the oversight of an individual priest. His attempt to start a "ministry" (i.e., a new religious order) was a failure by his own admission, and it would have been unsuccessful regardless of who was overseeing it.
30 posted on 09/22/2011 7:20:07 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: RitaOK

Why don’t more Bishops apply more “due diligence”to the travesty of church members being allowed to be politically active against life and thereby guilty of murder and almost always without any consequence. Now that would amount to something. Talk about mixed up priorities.


31 posted on 09/22/2011 9:08:30 PM PDT by Bellflower (When the word "holy" is used it must be used with respect and reverence for The LORD.)
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To: Alberta's Child

So you’re saying that Priests for life is a failure? Hardly.

Yes, he failed before, but has succeeded with priests for life. No, my suggestion is to turn priests for life into another religious order. with oversight from the Pope, not from the diocese of Amarillo. Failing that, one of the archbishops in the US.

And, yes, it’s primarily about oversight of Fr. Pavone’s ministry. Had he been just a priest with Amarillo none of this would have come about.


32 posted on 09/22/2011 9:15:35 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: BenKenobi
I was referring to this particular item in the article:

When he brought PFL to Amarillo, Father Pavone had ambitious plans to build a seminary there, and found a new religious order dedicated to pro-life activism. He raised enormous sums of money from donors who were encouraged to support that religious order and help build that seminary. But the seminary was never built, and within a couple of years the religious order had been disbanded.

The Pope does not "oversee" religious orders directly. There are provisions in the Catholic Church for the establishment of what is called a personal prelature, but there are quite rare (I believe Opus Dei is the only one in existence). A personal prelature is a structure where all of its members in the world (lay people and religious alike) come under the authority of a single bishop rather than their local bishops.

I agree that this is all about oversight of Fr. Pavone. When you have a priest out there raising $10 million in annual revenue through donations like this, there needs to be some kind of serious oversight, no?

33 posted on 09/23/2011 3:55:53 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child

I don’t see why this can’t be done for PFL as for Opus Dei.

Seems to me the most appropriate outcome.

Should all the money go to Amarillo? That’s not really right either, is it?


34 posted on 09/23/2011 5:37:52 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: Alberta's Child

Are you speaking of Bishop Zurek? Have you reason to doubt his diligence or his competence?


35 posted on 09/23/2011 5:41:55 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (My two cents' worth.)
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To: BenKenobi
I've seen no indication that the people involved in the governance of PFL even want to establish such an arrangement. Opus Dei has 90,000+ members worldwide, and its founder was canonized in 2002. It's a far different organization than PFL.

Nobody's suggesting the money should go to the diocese, either. Fr. Pavone's bishop is suggesting that full transparency in the financial arrangements of PFL is necessary in order to protect the Church against potential scandals.

36 posted on 09/23/2011 7:09:42 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: BenKenobi

P.S. If PFL’s attempt to start a seminary wasn’t successful, then how can anyone possibly suggest that establishing them as a personal prelature would be viable? I mean, they can’t even demonstrate that they have the ability to train their next generation of priests!


37 posted on 09/23/2011 7:12:33 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

No, I’m just pointing out the irony of how fast this whole story has unfolded in light of how long many priests were allowed to sexually abuse young men without any action at all on the part of their superiors.


38 posted on 09/23/2011 7:22:11 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child

Hrm? Opus Dei was founded in 1928. It wasn’t a prelature until 1982.

It also has 90k members but only 2k priests.

“I mean, they can’t even demonstrate that they have the ability to train their next generation of priests!”

Is that really it’s purpose?


39 posted on 09/24/2011 12:38:08 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: Alberta's Child

Yeah, the bishop of Amarillo seems pretty clear on where he wants the money to go.

As for them wanting such an arrangement, didn’t Pavone just apply to move to a different bishop?

Anyways, Los Angeles, which is the largest US archdiocese was earning about 30 million a year back in 2003. Would be about 50 million today. Anyway you slice it PFL is going to be larger than most Catholic dioceses in America, and is going to be a big part of whatever diocese it is a part of.


40 posted on 09/24/2011 12:57:40 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: BenKenobi
For most of the time that Opus Dei was in existence, there probably wasn't any perceived need to be organized as a personal prelature. I'm sure it was the nonsense of the post-Vatican II period that pushed them in that direction.

Is that really it’s purpose?

Well, yeah -- for a religious order that is organized as a personal prelature under an ecclesial head in Rome? That's EXACTLY what they're supposed to be doing. If an organization called "Priests for Life" can't even demonstrate how it will train their next generation of priests, then why would anyone in the Vatican bother going through the trouble of organizing a new prelature only to have it disappear once the current generation of priests dies or retires?

As an FYI . . . I don't know if any of this had anything to do with it, but I understand PFL actually did try to set up some sort of independent order that would directly report to Rome, and it was rejected by the Vatican.

41 posted on 09/24/2011 6:32:22 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child

Didn’t you just say they didn’t want that set up?

Your slips showing.


42 posted on 09/24/2011 10:52:14 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! “10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government")
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To: marshmallow
For years Father Pavone has run PFL as his own personal fiefdom...If the mission of PFL is to continue and thrive, it will be under some new form of leadership...Painful though it will be, Father Pavone should realize that the time has come to offer his baby up for adoption. He of all people should realize the most likely alternative: the baby will die.

If there is any good that has come out of this shameful episode, it has been in "outing" those in the Church who have been against meaningful pro-life work all along. We can now see clearly how long jealous bishops and their minions have been building up their resentments against anyone who has actually done the good work they failed to do. The almost satanic delight they publicly take in seeing Fr. Pavone mugged in this shameful diocesan money grab is frightening to behold. Prayers for the grace of perseverance for Fr. Pavone and prayers of mercy on the wretched souls who are persecuting him and his work.

43 posted on 09/24/2011 7:02:01 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: marshmallow
This made me sick -- not the nitty gritty of canonical "law" but the Church's recalcitrant attitude to fully back the fights against the murder of the unborn as if it is a subject that belongs on some back burner.

It seems that the fight against homosexual unions is another weak point for the "leaders" of the Church!

This attitude stuns me and makes my prayer for the enlightenment to those who lead, not as much as I feel those who ACT are already standing in His light and are bright in the Eyes of Him.
44 posted on 09/25/2011 6:12:32 AM PDT by AKA Elena (St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle!)
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To: AKA Elena

He needs to obey his bishop and let God control the outcome.


45 posted on 09/30/2011 7:08:11 PM PDT by wiley
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