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Presbyterian vote allows homosexual clergy, eliminates chastity standard
cna ^ | May 12, 2011

Posted on 05/12/2011 2:19:50 PM PDT by NYer

Washington D.C., May 12, 2011 / 12:39 am (CNA).- The Presbyterian Church USA has voted to remove clergy requirements of marital fidelity or single chastity, thus allowing the ordination of ministers and lay leaders who are openly homosexual or living in unmarried relationships.

“This is a lonely day for Presbyterians who believe what the Bible and the Church have consistently taught: that God’s will is that we be faithful in marriage or chaste in singleness. Now we belong to a denomination that is no longer sure it believes that teaching,” said Allan Wisdom, a director of Presbyterian Action at the ecumenical D.C.-based Institution on Religion & Democracy.

Wisdom thought that the change was a separation from the “historic Christian tradition and the vast majority of the global Church.” It means the denomination will not necessarily support its members who struggle to obey Scripture.

“It will not call them to repentance when they fall short of those standards, and it will not offer God’s forgiveness for what it no longer recognizes as sexual sins. In a society where the abuse of sexuality is devastating millions of lives, this abdication by the PCUSA is tragic.”

An amendment to the Presbyterian constitution was ratified on May 10 by a majority of the church’s 173 regional organizations known as presbyteries, the Los Angeles Times reports.

Since 1997 the church’s constitution required those seeking ordination to be living “in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness.” Now the constitution only requires church officials to examine “each candidate’s calling, gifts, preparation and suitability for the responsibilities of office.”

Regional church bodies will still be able to decide whether or not to ordain open homosexuals. However, some presbyteries have already ordained homosexual clergy and lay leaders without approval.

The change could lead some churches to leave the denomination or seek to join presbyteries more aligned with their views.

Rev. Dan Chun, pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Honolulu, told the Los Angeles Times his church has formally petitioned to move from the Pacific Presbytery, which favors homosexual ordination, to the San Diego Presbytery, which does not. The ordination of homosexuals was a major motive for the request.

He said he feared the vote would be “divisive for our denomination, which has, for the past 50-plus years, been losing membership.”

Michael Adee, a presbyter and executive director of the pro-homosexual group More Light Presbyterians, said the change was an “important moment in the Christian communion.”

“I rejoice that Presbyterians are focusing on what matters most: faith and character, not a person's marital status or sexual orientation,” he told the Los Angeles Times.

Knox Presbyterian Church in Ladera Heights, California hosted the Pacific Presbytery meeting.

Linda Fleming, 63, an elder and deacon at the church, said she had changed her mind on the issue because she thought it was “inevitable.”

“I think it's like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It's inevitable.”

Rev. Mark Brewer, pastor of Bel Air Presbyterian and an opponent of homosexual ordination, said he did not think the vote would cause any immediate crisis.

“I think this is a tectonic plate slowly separating, more than a big earthquake,” he said. He thought Presbyterians would “Stay on the same ship” but “live on different decks.”

The Presbyterian Church USA becomes the fourth mainline Protestant church in the U.S. to approve of openly homosexual clergy, after the Episcopal and Evangelical Lutheran churches and the United Church of Christ.


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: apostasy; celebratesin; chastity; culturewar; gayclergy; homosexual; homosexualagenda; ifitfeelsgooddohim; manslaw; pcusa; presbyterian; samesexmarriage; sexpositiveagenda; sin; smashmonogamy; swingers
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1 posted on 05/12/2011 2:19:52 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
“This is a lonely day for Presbyterians who believe what the Bible and the Church have consistently taught: that God’s will is that we be faithful in marriage or chaste in singleness. ....

If Sacred Tradition (what all generations of the Church have taught) is ignored, then the alternative is that heretical popular doctrines of the day, like homosexual marriage, cloning, abortion on demand, embryonic stem cell research, etc., will start to be accepted by pastors and churches who want to be called modernistic, and who don't want to offend the popular culture. These formerly evil things become part of their church doctrine by a simple majority vote of the delegates to their conventions. Vice should never become virtue by popular vote. Isaiah 5:20 says "woe to them who call evil good and good evil." When Tradition is not present in a church, this is exactly what happens, and is happening now before our very eyes.

2 posted on 05/12/2011 2:21:51 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

I’m not surprised. the Presbyterian Church and the ELCA have been in fellowship for some time. Only, what with the upheaval within the ELCA since their 2009 vote, one would think the PCA would get a clue...


3 posted on 05/12/2011 2:22:19 PM PDT by bcsco
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To: NYer

What else would one expect from churches that allow women of questionable sexual orientation in the pulpit?


4 posted on 05/12/2011 2:24:23 PM PDT by WestwardHo (Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: NYer

Yep, the PCUSA jumping on the apostacy train with the ELCA and Episcopalians.


5 posted on 05/12/2011 2:27:06 PM PDT by bjorn14 (Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20)
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To: bcsco
Churches with declining membership will not be able to continue supporting their retirement programs with married ministers with dependents.

Ask Fidelity ~ they sell a vast number of retirement programs to nonprofits and churches.

The Presbyterian Church USA has decided they'd rather start competing for what they view as a large number of homosexual ministers just waiting in the wings.

They'll get some, Fur Shur, butin the end there just aren't that many gays who are that involved in church stuff.

This approach is not designed to draw in new members which means that at some date certain the PCUSA will have to start selling real estate to keep the retirement plans funded.

6 posted on 05/12/2011 2:27:53 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: NYer

How can supposedly Christian denominations do this?


7 posted on 05/12/2011 2:35:50 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper
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To: NYer

THIS is PCUSA.....NOT PCof America.


8 posted on 05/12/2011 2:37:05 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Unlike the West, the Islamic world is serious.)
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To: muawiyah
Churches with declining membership will not be able to continue supporting their retirement programs with married ministers with dependents.

The ELCA has already gone through that on a small scale, undercutting the retired employee pensions of their publishing house, Augsburg. Yet, they persist in chastising ministers and churches who oppose the program.

9 posted on 05/12/2011 2:39:24 PM PDT by bcsco
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To: NYer

Church Announcements:

Men’s Fellowship Group to meet next Saturday night at the Platinum Club.

Presbyterian Ladies Circle to leave on weekend retreat to NYC on Friday to see the Chippendale’s.

Sign up for our mission trip to Ocean View Nudist Colony in Ft. Lauderdale in July.

[unbelievable - anything standing in the way now of any of the above??]


10 posted on 05/12/2011 2:41:06 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: goodnesswins
Wikipedia (hah, hah) lists 11 distinct Presbyterian denominations within these United States.

Of these, the PC-USA is by far the largest with over 2 million (claimed) members in 10,657 congregations. PC of America (since you mention it) claims 346,408 members in 1740 congregations.

This decision affects almost an order of magnitude more people than anything the PCA chooses to do.

This is a HUGE crime of leading people astray.

11 posted on 05/12/2011 2:48:56 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

Are they going to build some adjoining bathhouses by the chapels? Really sick that it’s come to this. Not that my own church won’t undoubtedly following suit shortly. Of course, at that moment, I’ll no longer regard it as ‘my church,’ as I’ll be breaking with it for good.


12 posted on 05/12/2011 2:51:03 PM PDT by greene66
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To: greene66
Not that my own church won’t undoubtedly following suit shortly.

Dare we ask what church that is?

13 posted on 05/12/2011 2:52:04 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

Rev.18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues..........


14 posted on 05/12/2011 2:55:34 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (The stench of dependency is a sickening smell. Strive to become an asset, not a liability.)
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To: bcsco

What do you mean about the PCA?


15 posted on 05/12/2011 2:56:02 PM PDT by twigs
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To: WinOne4TheGipper
How can supposedly Christian denominations do this?

Because they have separated the Church instituted by Christ. See my post #2.

16 posted on 05/12/2011 2:58:34 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

That is why I am so glad to be a Catholic.


17 posted on 05/12/2011 3:00:56 PM PDT by guardian_of_liberty (We must bind the Government with the Chains of the Constitution...)
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To: NYer

“I think it’s like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It’s inevitable.”

I hate this “reasoning”. Being black or female is not a sin.


18 posted on 05/12/2011 3:06:28 PM PDT by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: WinOne4TheGipper

Read Jesus’s warning to the churches in the Book of Revelation.


19 posted on 05/12/2011 3:10:35 PM PDT by Catsrus
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To: NYer

My advice to Presbyterians, vote with your feet and your pocketbook.

This isn’t a religion that studies the Bible.


20 posted on 05/12/2011 3:17:18 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: ArrogantBustard
I count nine. See chart from Presbyterian Historical Society of Philadelphia:

If you count all that have ever existed, it's more like thirty. And that's just in the USA.

21 posted on 05/12/2011 3:20:39 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
My dear Ministrix, please follow my link to Wiki(hah hah)pedia.

Count 'em.

11. Eleven. 9+2.

Even a tax lawyer wouldn't be able to follow that flow chart ...

22 posted on 05/12/2011 3:25:34 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: bcsco

As i have stated from day one. The Real Gay Agenda is to destroy the Church from within . They are getting very close to calling this a Victory.


23 posted on 05/12/2011 3:31:31 PM PDT by dbrew2u
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To: NYer

Unfortunately for anyone trying to be a Christian in PCUSA, the denomination’s method of defending traditional morality (table or return for further study proposals contrary to it, rather than killing them outright and denouncing their advocates as heretics) was doomed to failure by virtue of the “gambler’s ruin” phenomenon. They actually had a surprisingly good run — the “buggery’s not so bad, let’s ordain poofters” proposition had been being brought up and tabled or returned for study for a couple of decades.


24 posted on 05/12/2011 3:37:01 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: NYer

“I think it’s like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It’s inevitable.......LOL!!!!!


25 posted on 05/12/2011 3:40:42 PM PDT by johniegrad
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To: NYer
If Sacred Tradition ... is ignored, then the alternative is that heretical popular doctrines of the day ... will start to be accepted by pastors and churches.

I would agree with you, with the only caveat being that the only sacred traditions are those commanded in scripture.

When Tradition sound doctrine accompanied by holy living is not present in a church, this is exactly what happens, (fixed)

The Catholic church has no shortage of traditions. Would you say there is also no problem of homosexuals in the pulpit?

26 posted on 05/12/2011 3:44:57 PM PDT by Gil4 (Sometimes it's not low self-esteem - it's just accurate self-assessment.)
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To: WinOne4TheGipper

Those churches have abandoned the teachings of Christ and the apostle Paul and have adopted the book of liberalism where what is forbidden is subject to popular opinion.


27 posted on 05/12/2011 3:46:29 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Great googly moogly! I think I popped a blood vessel trying to read that chart. Who came up with that crazy thing?


28 posted on 05/12/2011 3:48:43 PM PDT by cothrige
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To: ArrogantBustard

Nah, I’ll decline, as I’m generally not interested nor inclined to get into denominational type discussions. All I’ll say is that it suffers from the same type of degenerate leadership, and is a domino waiting to fall. I certainly hope it doesn’t happen, but I’m mentally prepared for it, as I’ll immediately sever my lifelong, forty-year ties with the church then and there.


29 posted on 05/12/2011 3:49:01 PM PDT by greene66
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To: NYer

Once you severe branch from the tree, you never know what will grow.


30 posted on 05/12/2011 3:50:29 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: cothrige
Isn't it adorable?

It was perpetrated by the Presbyterian History Society of Philadelphia PA.

Clearly they don't have enough to do.

31 posted on 05/12/2011 3:54:26 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: ArrogantBustard
I gotcha . . . two new ones formed last week. (Well, not quite but pretty close. One of the new ones started up a couple years ago right down the road from us.)

Funny that Wiki (ahem) pedia has the same chart I found. I got it direct from the Presbys, though. It's an interesting website if you like church history. I wrote an article for the Alabama Historical Review on the history of Baptist congregations in SE Alabama, it actually was kinda fun sorting out all the various dissolving and recombining associations and groups. If you're obsessive/compulsive, maybe. :-D

32 posted on 05/12/2011 4:02:01 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: RatRipper

<< unbelievable - anything standing in the way now of any of the above?? >>

Nothing.

Once you get rid of chastity, all bets are off.


33 posted on 05/12/2011 4:02:29 PM PDT by heye2monn
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To: AnAmericanMother
Isn't it adorable?

Absolutely. LOL! It's simply fantastic.

34 posted on 05/12/2011 4:11:35 PM PDT by cothrige
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To: wagglebee

Churches that celebrate sin, PING


35 posted on 05/12/2011 4:27:56 PM PDT by a fool in paradise ("If Eric Holder had his way, O-B-L would still be alive today." Thank you President Bush for Gitmo.)
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To: cothrige
They 'splains it all for you here.

"Hmmmm . . . "

36 posted on 05/12/2011 4:30:07 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: 21twelve

Their reasoning on behalf of “teh gays” doesn’t explain why they would also support letting single male ministers bang a different woman every week with no hint of scandal.


37 posted on 05/12/2011 4:37:35 PM PDT by a fool in paradise ("If Eric Holder had his way, O-B-L would still be alive today." Thank you President Bush for Gitmo.)
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To: goodnesswins

I understand that. Neither is this the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). Both PCA and OPC broke off when the Gramscian Marxists infiltrated PCUSA. While PCA and OPC are separate denominations, they still fellowship and have stayed with scripture.


38 posted on 05/12/2011 4:41:18 PM PDT by Fred Hayek (All Hail the No Talent Pop Star pResident.)
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To: NYer

I have a different belief than most on this because I was raised Presbyterian. Presbyterians don’t like to be told who they can’t hire as a pastor. They resist central office type rules regarding their church.

But the liberals have been running the church for years and I’m surprised the PCUSA hasn’t started installing bishops.


39 posted on 05/12/2011 4:45:30 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: RatRipper

This is a joke, right?


40 posted on 05/12/2011 4:52:23 PM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: fwdude; RatRipper

Post #10 is meant as a joke. However, I do recall a thread about a real men’s Bible study that took place at the local Hooter’s restaurant every week.


41 posted on 05/12/2011 4:59:25 PM PDT by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: NYer

How sad.


42 posted on 05/12/2011 5:01:11 PM PDT by PatriotGirl827 (Lord Jesus, direct my mind, possess my heart, transform my life)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Forbidden is such a nasty, judgmental word./lib


43 posted on 05/12/2011 5:05:58 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper
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To: NYer

Heck if they would only allow them to marry — no bad things would happen. Forget the chastity and celibacy — oops wrong church........<sarcasm off/


44 posted on 05/12/2011 6:26:06 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Fred Hayek

YES...what YOU said.


45 posted on 05/12/2011 6:37:31 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Unlike the West, the Islamic world is serious.)
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To: a fool in paradise
The point is "single" ~ that affects the costs of the ministerial retirement program.

Gays and "singles" ~ all makes dolalrs and sense, eh! (Like that pun?)

they'd be better off selling some of their buildings to the Holy Rollers.

46 posted on 05/12/2011 7:21:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: fwdude; 21twelve

It is a joke. Just used a Rush Limbaugh tactic and carried the issue out to a logical extension.

If what was previously considered sexual immorality is accepted by the church as the normal standard, why not men’s fellowship at the Platinum Club? Why can’t the ladies go see the Chippendales? Why not a mission trip to a nudist colony? None of them are any worse that what they have judged to be, contrary to clear Biblical teaching, perfectly acceptable.


47 posted on 05/12/2011 8:38:57 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Just another reminder why Presbyterians are also known as “The Split Ps”


48 posted on 05/12/2011 9:16:18 PM PDT by feralcat
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To: NYer

Prayers for our Christian brethern suffering


49 posted on 05/13/2011 12:17:09 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: muawiyah
"The presbyterians have decided they'd rather start competing for gays' -- that's funny!

and butin the end is wickedly funny too :)

50 posted on 05/13/2011 12:18:45 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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