Posted on 03/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by count-your-change
Where was Christ for the three days following his death? It seems a simple enough question and it is. The answer is simple too. One might turn to Matthew 27:59, 60, where it says a rich man, Joseph, took Jesus' body and had it put in Joseph's prepared tomb and then a large stone was rolled in place to close up the cave like tomb.
So why would there be a question? Well, before Jesus died he had been asked to be remembered by a criminal hanging nearby. Said this man:
"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." By the request he shows he does expect, he has faith, that despite the present situation, that Jesus would indeed, 'come into his kingdom'.
But it is Jesus' answer that some find hard to understand or explain:
"He replied, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". Notice that I left out the comma which does not appear in the Greek. It is the placement of that comma that brings the question of whether Jesus was saying either "today you will be with me" or "today I am saying to you", two very different things. Most translators place the comma before "today" in line their beliefs about Christ's condition during those three days, not according to any necessity occasioned by the Greek grammar. Is such placement, and the meaning it imparts, justified according to what the rest of the Scriptures say? No, not at all. How so?
Jesus said he, "the son of man" was to "be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)". (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ 'rose from the dead'.
Earlier Peter had interpreted Psalm 16:10 as fitting the Christ, saying Christ had gone into Hades, or hell as some translations have it, as had David, to await God's resurrection of them. (Acts 2:29-36) David though, would have to wait until that much broader resurrection Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15, the "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous".
But what of the criminal and the promise made to him? Did he die and go to heaven, hell, where?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
Only then, when Christ was "in his kingdom", could this criminal expect to be in "paradise". Mean while he was dead, unconscious, (Eccl. 9:4-6), what Christ compared to sleep.(John 11:11)
“Where was Christ During the Three Days After His Death?”
Surfing in Waikiki.
“Surfing in Waikiki.”
Walking on water some more, you mean?
He was dead. He was “in the heart of the earth” a Jewish idiom meaning “to be at one with” or buried. He was dead. But, He had the power to take up His life again. Only God has that power.
Since in the original manuscripts there are no punctuation marks, I have the right to decide where the comma goes just as much as anyone else. The King James translators didn’t translate this - they interpreted this - and my interpretation is just as good as theirs(actually better than theirs). I agree with you, the comma goes before today. A Hebrew in a very serious and solemn situation talking to another Hebrew (both about to die is a very serious situation) would emphasize the seriousness by saying, “I tell you this today.” Like we would say, “I’m telling you this right here and now, i.e. today.
Stop me before I find another one!
Vacationing on the Riviera.
Do you have a magazine that you'd like to leave with me, before you move on?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
I would put him right where Christ promised he would be... in Paradise. Jesus is the King of His Kingdom and the Judge of all mankind. We enter by His Sacrifice and at His invitation. There is a Japanese proverb that tells us "Beginning is easy... continuing is hard." Christ told us how to live... the thief showed us how to die.
Where was Christ after His Death and before His Resurrection? I would put Him in the underworld, announcing the Messianic age to those who had fallen asleep. You have cited a couple of verses. I offer the fact that Christ said He would offer the sign of Jonah. Where was Jonah for three days? In a fish? What does Jonah say?
Jonah 2:1Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the stomach of the fish, 2 and he said,
"I called out of my distress to the LORD,Though his body was in the belly of the fish, Jonah had gone to the depth of Sheol. He was dead. When Christ references the sign of Jonah, it is a reference to rising to life after three days of death.
And He answered me
I cried for help from the depth of Sheol;
You heard my voice.
Ask Him when (if?) you get there!
bttt
Jesus can do whatever he wants. He is not bound to do what the bible says he must do. Any takers?
His body was in the grave.
His soul was in Hades, specifically at one time in Paradise, also known as Abraham’s Bosom.
His human spirit was with God the Father.
He laid down His life, His soul, to God the Holy Spirit in Hades, who then combined His Resurrection body with His human soul and human spirit at the grave, some 3 days later.
Good catch!
The real question is, “Where do you believe he was four days after his death?”. That is the one that matters.
Dismas was saved by a baptism of desire which is recognized by all main line Christian faiths. Dismas knew he was a sinner. He knew he deserved what he was suffering, but he also knew righteousness when in its presence and asked for at least the little bit of mercy he thought he could.
That's where the Lord went, why he went and who went with him. Any questions?
He was grabbing the Keys of Hell away from a certain fallen angel.
Anybody surprised that al-Husseini didn’t make them cover the statue?
He was in Sheol. Hell. The belly of the best.
“Truly I tell you today, you...” makes no sense. The thief thought Jesus was just a recording? Further, the saying “Truly I tell you,” is a translation of a specific idiom. “Today” is not part of the idiom.
In Greek, “today” is used as an adverb. I’m quite sure whoever stuck the comma in there knew which verb it agreed with.
If you don’t like the discussion of the Scriptures you can move on to your caucus and feel warm and safe. Bye.
Col. Kilgore is an admirer of his nose-riding technique.
Why not? He’d just been scourged and crucified and He had a few days clear on His calendar. Just because He’s Lord and Savior doesn’t mean He doesn’t rate some r&r.
Repeating something to emphasize its seriousness is not uncommon as at John 10:10, “Amen, amen, I am saying to you”.
I would say dying is pretty serious.
>”He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the “righteous and unrighteous” sometime in the future. “
Let’s see what Jesus has to say about death and the soul:
Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Where was Lazarus? Answer: In Hell.
Where were his five brothers while Lazarus’s soul was burning in Hell? Answer: They were alive and well, living on planet Earth.
Was Lazarus asleep, awaiting some future resurrection? Answer: No!
Therefore, you do greatly err in not listening to what Christ, Himself has to say on the subject.
Cheers
How did they determine that Christ had died? Were they sure he was dead?
I think that was karma, maybe karma corn with a large drink!
LOL!
How did WHO determine? To whom are referring?
The Catholic Creed states
” ... He descended into Hell. On the third day he arose again ... “
It doesn’t say what He did during those days in Hell.
As children in Catholic school, we were taught that he was meeting and freeing those souls there.
Ripping his side open with a spear and watching the body fluids, which had separated between white and red fluids, discharge from the abdomen is pretty good forensic evidence.
Whoever put him in that cave...or said he had died or took him off the cross. I don’t know exactly who. How did they determine he was lifeless and actually dead? Just wondering. You know how they used to bury people alive all the time in the old days.... not knowing their heart was still beating.
Do you not understand this parable? Do you not understand what Peter said about Christ being in Hades?
“Just because He’s Lord and Savior doesn’t mean He doesn’t rate some r&r.”
Sure, he turned water into wine.
I think that you meant the 'rich man' in your response....
In answer to the original question as to where was Christ during the 3 day period, God exists outside of time and space. Thus the question is flawed.
Nah, it was too good of photo-op to pass up in that it reinforces the media’s lie that Obama is a Christian while stroking Obama’s ego by playing upon Obama’s Lefturd, solipsistic belief that he, himself is the One, the holy of holies, God-like in nature:
“[sin is] being out of alignment with my values.” - Obama
“Uh, yeah, I guess I do. It’s not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God. I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.” - Obama
-—in other words, Obama sets his own standards for what sin is. And, the god he prays daily to for answers is himself.
So, the real question would be: How could he NOT pass up the opportunity?
Cheers
Whoever put him in that cave...or said he had died or took him off the cross. I don’t know exactly who. How did they determine he was lifeless and actually dead? Just wondering. You know how they used to bury people alive all the time in the old days.... not knowing their heart was still beating.
Jehovah's Witness.
Correct, comma boy?
Where's the invite to Kingdom Hall and a copy of "The Watchtower"?
Was that in the Bible? I started reading it once in a while...but at the beginning....so I don’t know...
That that is is that that is not is not that that is is not that so
Yes, you’re right. It was the rich man who was in Hell. Sorry about that. That’s the problem with getting old, you cut&paste the scripture, so that it’s right in front of you, and then rely on your failing memory to re-tell the story! LOL!
Cheers
The day of his death was Day One. The next day was Day Two. The day of his resurrection, and of its discovery by the women that came to visit the tomb, was Day Three. On the third day is not the same as three days (72 hours) later, which seems to trouble many minds.
Minute by minute, day by day chronology, is a matter of much significance to the human mind and experience. In other realms, perhaps not so much.
Are we not told that He visited the souls in prison (hell)? I have a recollection of having heard that,but cannot find it written by a cursory search.
Where that ambiguity exists because we do use commas and all the nuances of the koine’ Greek are not known, we can only rely on the whole of the Scriptures.
Where or if a comma is added will be determined by what the translator believes the meaning of Luke 23:42, 43 is.
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