Female Deacons in the PCA?

http://selerdor.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/female-deacons-in-the-pca/ ^ | March 25, 2008 · 11:32 am | Seledor

[Cronos]

I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard this year’s GA will entertain an overture requesting the BCO be adapted to allow ordination of female deacons. Actually, I just didn’t want to believe my ears. This overture should really come as no surprise. My pastor along with other friends in the PCA have been predicting it for years based on previous compromises within our denomination on issues like the Lord’s Day, Subscription, etc. Now it’s here. Let’s examine it. I have copied the supporting argument directly from the body of Overture 9, which is in bold below, and have added my commentary after each section individually:

[ckilmer]

Someone should tell the leaders of the PCA that soon enough the pastors will stop preaching to the men. Why? Because the men will no longer do the work of the church.

There will grow up then a mutual contempt society between
the pastors and the men of the church as the pastors encourage the women and teach them to manipulate the men to jerk change from their pockets. So essentially the men are neither edified or encouraged but come only for the sake orf their wives and children.

The sons of the men will smell this bad deal a mile away. And leave the church as soon as they are able. The daughters will stay longer but will leave too when they find no suitable young men to marry.

This last stage is where the PCUSA is at right now. The largest group leaving the PCUSA right now are single young women.

[ckilmer]

Someone should tell the leaders of the PCA that soon enough the pastors will stop preaching to the men. Why? Because the men will no longer do the work of the church.

There will grow up then a mutual contempt society between
the pastors and the men of the church as the pastors encourage the women and teach them to manipulate the men to jerk change from their pockets. So essentially the men are neither edified or encouraged but come only for the sake orf their wives and children.

The sons of the men will smell this bad deal a mile away. And leave the church as soon as they are able. The daughters will stay longer but will leave too when they find no suitable young men to marry.

This last stage is where the PCUSA is at right now. The largest group leaving the PCUSA right now are single young women.

[Cronos]

“The largest group leaving the PCUSA right now are single young women” —> I did not know that, that is a very interesting statistic

[topcat54]

There are churches in the PCA with female deacons. There are churches in the PCA with female officers. There are female deacons serving on the diaconates in churches in the PCA. There are churches in the PCA that have been pushing the envelope on this issue for years.

Why this overture would come as a surprise to anyone familiar with the direction of the PCA is the remarkable thing.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

This is extremely troubling. I left the ELCA and am firmly now Lutheran Church Missoui Synod but we know that there are always attacks going on in God's church.

It may be only a matter of time until this creeps into the LCMS but it is extremely dangerous. Once the LCMS ordains women, I'm outta there. AS far as I know, there are no female elders yet but who knows what lurks around the corner. Fortunately, the LCMS elected a new synodical president this year who is extremely conservative.

I pray for the PCA. I am very surprised.

[Hootowl]

Don’t quite understand what the brouhaha is about. Paul clearly references women in the primitive church as apostles and it is likely that after his Damascus Road conversion, Paul was tutored for a time by a woman apostle. Other women led churches or played leading roles in the early church. What is it about women serving in the church that is so offensive to so many men?

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

This is the camel's nose under the tent and a dangerous direction. Frankly, our church allows women to vote on church issues and if it were up to me, I wouldn't even do that.

Being a woman, I see that once men figure out that if they let some woman do their duty, they're more than willing to let them do it and eventually you have the full feminization of the church and eventually next comes the ordination of homosexuals.

I say NO. http://mylcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2702

[wbarmy]

Don't send those girls to the Independent baptists. I have a hard enough time finding young MEN to keep company with my three daughters. Although there are plenty of girls talking up my two boys. Their moms are always picking on them to talk to my family.

Just being humorous, but the day when seven righteous women will be looking for one righteous man are not to far off. (Isaiah 4:1)

[Cronos]

I don’t think the LCMS will go down that route. There are some good freepers here like redgolum or Belteshazzar or xzins who are LCMS and what they tell me is the LCMS keeps a strict operating procedure on who gets in and what practises are being followed. The LCMS is close to orthodoxy and let’s pray for them as they remain that way.

[Cronos]

Let your daughters meet and convert some nice Chinese or Indian men :)

[wbarmy]

I’ve never really supported the “meet and convert” search procedure for husbands or wives. I want there to be some kind of track record before I give my blessing.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I hope you're right. I had to leave the ELCA because they were forsaking God's word and I don't want to have to do it again but I will.

Of course, I have no idea where I would go.

[Cronos]

True, but here’s the thing — you can still get true Christians who started life out as hindus or confucians or athiests.

[Cronos]

Well, don’t worry, the LCMS is a truly orthodox group and it will not forsake God’s word.

[wbarmy]

I agree, I was raised in an horrendous household, but I have higher hopes for my children. There were so many things that I did not understand or appertain too which my loving wife had to forgive. I hope that my children can start without some of the problems I brought to marriage.

[what's up]

Not sure. Priscilla set Apollos straight on doctrine and Paul commended a woman who had the church meet in her house (you think she had NO input into church business?)

We're talking Deacons here...really can't see the harm in it.

[Always A Marine]

The ordination of "Deaconesses" almost came up at the last General Assembly, but apparently did not since the overwhelming lack of support was obvious. I'll say one thing about the liberals, though -- they are very persistent.

But I know a slippery slope when I look downhill, and this is a very slick one. Far from a "semantic" argument which seeks to officially recognize the similar work that a woman might already do in the church, what we are talking about is the ordination of women as officers of the church.

To borrow a line from Winston Churchill, this is something "up with which I shall not put." If it passes, this will not satisfy its supporters, who will then agitate for women to serve as Elders, and then, well... we have seen this movie before in the now-dying PCUSA. Willingness to compromise on such a foundational standard is a precursor of further Biblical error, and a harbinger of eventual ruin.

This RE will look for another denomination if the PCA ordains women.

[Cronos]

hoot, what —> AAM has given a very good response that could answer your questions

[RnMomof7]

This RE will look for another denomination if the PCA ordains women.

We can thank the pragmatic Tim Keller for this

[PAR35]

We can thank the pragmatic Tim Keller for this

Yes, he's certainly the ringleader for this movement. And, at this point, it looks like he can put together the votes to push things through.

[narses]

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[Cronos]

Tim J Keller

speaker, and the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City, New York

:A woman may do anything a non-ordained man may do."

You're right -- he may push this through in the PCA

[RnMomof7]

He is far from orthodox in some of his doctrinal positions.. like death preceded the fall .

I do not like him, do not trust him..I believe he is a wolf in sheeps clothing and the PCA sheep will go along with their own Rick Warren

[MarkBsnr]

I thought that the PCA was considered by the Presbyterians to be solidly Christian. Indeed, they've been held up as examples of Christianity as an example to other Christians. Has the evil one made inroads into this bastion of Christianity?

I recently saw a Pew survey that said that Presbyterians lost the greatest percentage of their congregants of any Christian group (Catholics were somewhat down the list as a percentage). Would you think that efforts like this influence that ranking?

[RnMomof7]

I recently saw a Pew survey that said that Presbyterians lost the greatest percentage of their congregants of any Christian group (Catholics were somewhat down the list as a percentage). Would you think that efforts like this influence that ranking?

What Presbyterians? Presbyterianism is a church government style not a doctrine.. The PCUSA which is universalist , liberal etc is slowly dying and I suspect that is where those stats come from .

Merry Christmas

[wardaddy]

Good Lord...it never ends

[wardaddy]

We're talking Deacons here...really can't see the harm in it.

I'm SBC but it's a slippery slope trust me...at this rate I'm headed for TN Church of Christ

any "social progress" starts as "no big deal"

[MarkBsnr]

What Presbyterians? Presbyterianism is a church government style not a doctrine.. The PCUSA which is universalist , liberal etc is slowly dying and I suspect that is where those stats come from .

Agreed. Merry Christmas and may Almighty God bless you and us all.