Posted on 06/11/2010 9:44:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
Colo - 1838: Jan. 15: The church printing office in Kirtland is attached and sold at public auction to pay a debt to Grandison Newell. [Source: Saints Without Halos
Jan. 16: The church printing office burns. Dissenters claim the church burned it rather than let anyone else have it. Members claim dissenter Lyman Sherman burned it to keep the church from getting it back. [Source: Saints Without Halos
You know Rip, we 'antis' have been accused time and time again for putting out falsehoods and lies - without ponying up to provide the evidence. Here a mormon lie have been caught and the excuse is baseless. Further Rip, the Expositor was destroyed at the order of Smith in his capacity of the mayor/general of Nauvoo. This Ohio press was properly attached and sold because of the Kirkland bank scheme - only to be burned by MORMONS. Could this be another episode of infamous mormon 'lying for the lord' apologetics?
One word of advice though, if you try to make one an offender for a word, or in my case, as state, it's bad form. Please don't unleash such a torrent of indignation again, or at least don't expect a response.
W. W. Phelps...you can look it up. I’m surprised you don’t know this, given the amount of “research” you do. Perhaps varied sources are in order.
Your link is a good one, thanks.
And you protest too much too, rip. I'm waiting breathlessly to hear the details.
Your previous post, as usual, is empty on facts. Your failure to provide facts speaks volumes.
Do you really believe that? Do you honestly believe that members of this forum have that little respect for the Constitution?
Every time I hit the “Everything” button I run across one of your anti-Mormon screeds.
It must be sad to be you. Of course, it’ll be even sadder when you meet your Maker and find out what He thinks about gossip, bearing false witness, judging your neighbors, etc. You’d best hope the Mormons are right. In their theology, you’ll get a chance to repent. In yours, like that great ol’ AC/DC song, you’re on the “Highway to Hell”. Of course, the further words of the song “My friends are gonna be there too” may be of comfort.
Your posts have nothing to do with “education” or “discussion” and everything to do with spewing falsehoods and vitriol for your team of cheerleaders.
Have a nice day.
Alas, unable to even muster up the fortitude for even a link. But alas - are the circumstances the same? Dare say no. Dare you prove otherwise.
Putting out lies ???
There was another lie shortly after Smith was arrested for destroying the newspaper press and the buliding...
Someone in the US said that Joey Smith was in “debtors prison” when he got himself killed, and it was published in overseas newspapers...
and no mention of the smashed newspaper printing press..
New Zealand Spectator and Cook’s Strait Guardian, Volume I, Issue 13, 4 January 1845, Page 4
AMERICAN AFFAIRS.
“The Mormon prophet, Joe Smith, and his brother, Hiram Smith, are both dead. They were murdered in th,e debtors’ prison at Carthage, on or about the 25th of June. In my letter of the 30th ult., I gave you a statement of the Mormon difficulties, so far as an account of them had been received in this city. From that statement the most direful consequences were to be apprehended. Those apprehensions have been realised.
The circumstances attending the* death of these men are very differently represented by the parties for and against them. It is said by their enemies, that the Smiths, while within the prison, fired with pistols upon the guard, and then attempted to escape, whereupon the guard returned the fire, and that they were then both slain. I have taken some trouble to ascertain the facts, and I have come to the conclusion that the fallowing statement is as near the truth as anything that has yet appeared in print, but I may be mistaken.
On a solemn pledge given by Qovernor Ford, of Illinois, that their perspns sould be protected from injury by a mob, Joe and Hiram Smith, with others, suffered themselves to be arrested, and were removed to the gaol at Carthage, there to await a trial for any crime they might be charged with having committed. Everything appearing to be peaceful, only a small guard was left to protect the prisoners from being injured or from escaping.
On or about the 25th of June, a mob, consisting of sixty or seventy armed men, all disguised, rushed past the guard, in strength numbering only six or eight, into the gaol, and immediately commenced firing through the door of the room in which the prisoners were confined, wounding the Prophet ; whereupon he and his brother fled to a window, and were in the act of jumping out, when Joe received three balls in bis body and fell dead upon the ground. Hiram fell inside of the prison, having received ten or twelve balls through his body. These were the only Mormons, killed. One or two others were wounded. The dead bodiea were removed to Nauvoo (”the holy city “) to be interred with great solemnity. The followers of Smith were greatly exasperated, but but kept in subjection by their leaders. Smith’s mother i« said to possess a controlling influence, which was exerted in the preservation of order, *nd the suppression of violence. At the last accounts every thing was tranquil.”
post 49 has the link
Didn't your mama or papa ever teach you that when you critique or criticize someone, you be specific? If you have kids, and attempt to hold them accountable over some actions, do you just generize with them so they never know what the punishment or discipline you dish out was for?
Otherwise, what you've just done simply amounts to gossip -- ironically exactly what you've just accused me of. (You can't even live by your standards in the same preaching post you do!)
False witness? Falsehoods? Prove it. (Of course, you don't bother; 'tis easier to cater to intellectual laziness & engage in wide-open slander)
The old “I ain't go nothing to respond to the facts with so let me call them lies and hit the presenter” defense...
A classic...
The Evening and Morning Star was the first Latter Day Saint periodical. It was initially published in a printing office operated by William Wines Phelps in Independence, Missouri beginning in June, 1832 until the office was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833, after the Star published a discussion[2] of U.S. and Missouri laws regarding slavery, African-Americans, and mixed-raced Americans. Pro-slavery Missourians responded with an outraged “Manifesto of the Mob,” [3], in which Mormons were decried as “...deluded fanatics, or weak and designing knaves...” and so forth. The mob also destroyed numerous uncompleted copies of the Book of Commandments.
Not only that, but the Mormon’s own printing press was destroyed by anti Mormon mobs much earlier in Ohio
W. W. Phelps...you can look it up. I’m surprised you don’t know this, given the amount of “research” you do. Perhaps varied sources are in order.
____________________________________________
William Wine Phelps who claimed that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers and therefore equals ???
That W W Phelps ???
In 1844 LDS author W. W. Phelps wrote:
And again, we exclaim, O Mormonism! No wonder that Lucifer, son of the morning, the next heir to Jesus Christ, our eldest brother, should fight so hard against his brethren; he lost the glory, the honor, power, and dominion of a God and the knowledge, spirit, authority and keys of the priesthood of the son of God!
Christ kept his first estate—Lucifer lost his by offering to save men in their sins on the honor of a God, or on his father’s honor.—Christ hated sin, and loved righteousness, therefore he was anointed with holy oil in heaven, and crowned in the midst of brothers and sisters, while his mother stood with approving virtue, and smiled upon a Son that kept the faith as the heir of all things. (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 758, Jan. 1, 1844, art. by W. W. Phelps)
I knew that story long ago rip. Now lets stretch you a little and if you bothered to go to that link what riled the good folks up? It was slavery, not religion. The destruction was by mob - not directed and supported by smith and his croonies. Smiths actions were at best no better than Independence, but was worse in that it was ILLEGAL for the government to take that action ABSENT the right and just appearance in a court of law. But smith wanted the presidency and power, and such a trial would further expose his lies regarding polygamy and other truths he had buried in the closet. So come on - finish placing the two side by side for all of us and show us why smith was justified in breaking the law.
the office was destroyed by a mob on 20 July 1833, after the Star published a discussion[2] of U.S. and Missouri laws regarding slavery, African-Americans, and mixed-raced Americans. Pro-slavery Missourians
_______________________________________________
This had nothing to do with
1. mormonism
2. Polygamy
It was a slavery issue..
However as the mormons were FOR slavery at time it is stange that they woulod claim the “mob” were pro-slavery..
Joey Smith wanted to build himslf a personal army of 100,000, which would have been 12 times the size of the US army at that time...
TROUBLE IN NAUVOO
“A careful look at Joseph Smith’s actions in Nauvoo certainly raises a question of whether he was becoming more concerned about gaining political and military power than he was about spiritual matters. For example, in 1844 the secret Council of Fifty decided to run Joseph Smith for the presidency of the United States. Just a short time before this, Joseph Smith had stated that he did not want to participate in politics: “...but as my feelings revolt at the idea of having anything to do with politics, I have declined, in every instance, having anything to do on the subject.... I wish to be let alone, that I may attend strictly to the spiritual welfare of the Church.” (History of the Church, vol. 5, page 259)
Even though Joseph Smith made this statement in 1843, in 1844 he announced that he was a candidate for the presidency of the United States. The elders of the church were actually called to electioneer for Smith. Brigham Young stated: “It is now time to have a President of the United States. Elders will be sent to preach the Gospel and electioneer.” (History of the Church, vol. 6, page 322)
Joseph Smith seems to have desired to lead a large army, for he prepared a “Petition to the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States, dated 26th March, asking the privilege of raising 100,000 men to extend protection to persons wishing to settle Oregon and other portions of the territory of the United States...” (History of the Church, vol. 6, page 282) In this document we find the following:
“Section 1. Be it ordained... that Joseph Smith... is hereby authorized and empowered to raise a company of one hundred thousand armed volunteers...
“Sec. 2. And be it further ordained that if any person or persons shall hinder or attempt to hinder or molest the said Joseph Smith from executing his designs in raising said volunteers... [he] shall be punished by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars... or by hard labor on some public work not exceeding two years, or both...” (History of the Church, vol. 6, page 277)
D. Michael Quinn pointed out that the “Council of Fifty” sanctioned this “extraordinary proposal.” Obviously, this bizarre petition was rejected by Congress. In any case, this request would lead one to wonder just why Joseph Smith would want such a large army. The fact that his secret Council of Fifty was involved in the matter certainly raises some interesting questions. Why would he want an army almost twelve times larger than the U.S. Army?
A non-Mormon newspaper, The Warsaw Signal, printed the following: “How military these people are becoming! Every thing they say or do seems to breathe the spirit of military tactics. Their prophet appears, on all great occasions, in his sp[l]endid regimental dress[,] signs his name Lieut. General, and more titles are to be found in the Nauvoo Legion, than any one book on military tactics can produce... Truly fighting must, be a part of the creed of these Saints!” (Warsaw Signal, July 21, 1841)
To make the situation even worse, Joseph Smith went so far as to have himself ordained “King.” The noted Mormon scholar Kenneth W. Godfrey stated:
“Antagonism toward the Mormon Prophet was further incited when it was correctly rumored, that he had been ordained ‘King over the Immediate House of Israel’ by the Council of Fifty. This action was wrongly interpreted by non-Mormons to mean that he was going to attempt to overthrow the United States government by force.... his kingly ordination only incensed the populace, and his untimely death became even more inevitable.” (Brigham Young University Studies, Winter 1968, pp. 212-213)
Dr. Quinn’s book contains some revealing information concerning this matter:
“Two days after this general conference Smith became Mormonism’s theocratic king. The kingdom’s clerk William Clayton wrote that during the 11 April 1844 meeting ‘was prest. Joseph chosen as our Prophet, Priest and King by Hosannas.’ Clayton did not describe what happened immediately after this secret sustaining vote by the Council of Fifty.... a later revelation to the Council of Fifty affirmed that God called Smith ‘to be a Prophet, Seer and Revelator to my Church and Kingdom; and to be a King and Ruler over Israel.’...
“As one researcher notes, admitting only three gentiles to the Council of Fifty was certainly ‘a poor representation’ on Smith’s part ‘if he expected the Council soon to be in control of the world.’... However, in functional terms this non-Mormon participation was an unparalleled development, because they became privy to Mormonism’s greatest secret.... the three non-Mormons voted for and witnessed Smith’s ordination as ‘King, Priest and Ruler over Israel on the Earth.’ Smith believed that no one, not even non-Mormons, would disclose this event because he had administered a secrecy oath to each.
“The oath of secrecy began at the preliminary meeting on 10 March when Smith’s diary stated: ‘Joseph required perfect secrecy of them.’ By June disaffected members disclosed that: ‘For the time being, this was to remain a perfect secret until God should reveal to the contrary,’ and they claimed that Smith ‘swore them all to present secrecy, under the penalty of death!’...
“Official minutes described the Council of Fifty’s initiation ceremony as ‘the Charge, the name, & Key word, and the Constitution, and Penalty.’ George Q. Cannon, the council’s later recorder, ‘read the minutes of the 1st organization which did sanction the “penalty.” ‘... Mention of a “Penalty” in the Council’s official minutes corroborates the 1844 claim of dissenters that the Fifty had an obligation of ‘secrecy, under the penalty of death.’
“The Daughters of Zion (Danites) of Missouri also had passwords and a penal oath of secrecy, and former Danites accounted for one-third of the men Smith admitted into the Council of Fifty.” (The Mormon Hierarchy, pages 124, 128-129)
Unfortunately for Joseph Smith, William Law, who had served in the First Presidency of the church, turned against him. D. Michael Quinn reported:
“On 10 May 1844 Smith’s former counselor William Law and his fellow religious dissenters distributed a prospectus for their newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. It advocated repeal of Nauvoo’s charter and proposed to reveal ‘gross moral imperfections’ in Nauvoo. This was nothing new....”
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no88.htm
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