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Unparralled Outrage at Nauvoo (Mormon - OPEN)
Warsaw Messenger ^ | June 12, 1844

Posted on 06/11/2010 9:44:43 AM PDT by Colofornian

Below we give the particulars of the most diabolical outrage that has ever been perpetrated in this free country. Had it been the act of an excited multitude, it would have appeared much more excusable; but it was the deliberate work of men who acted not from the impulse of a sudden emotion, nor amid the tumult of an intoxicated multitude. It was done in cold blood! and is there any thing further needed to exhibit the feindish and tyrannical disposition of Joe and his sattelites. To comment on this most wanton act would be an insult to our readers.

The following are the particulars which appeared in our extra of yesterday:

TUESDAY JUNE 11, 1844.

Mr. Sharp: -- I hasten to inform you of the UNPARALLELED OUTRAGE, perpetrated upon our rights and interests, by the ruthless, lawless, ruffian band of MORMON MOBOCRATS, at the dictum that of that UNPRINCIPLED wretch Joe Smith.

We were privately informed that the CITY COUNCIL, which had been in extra session, for two days past; had enacted an ordinance in relation to libels, providing that anything that had been published, or anything that might be published tending to disparage the character of the officers of the city should be regarded as LAWLESS. They also declared the "Nauvoo Expositor," a "nuisance," and directed the police of the city to proceed immediately to the office of the Expositor and DESTROY THE PRESS and also the MATERIALS, by THROWING them into the STREET!!!!

If any resistance were made, the officers were directed to demolish the building and property, of all who were concerned in publishing said paper; and also take all into custody, who might refuse to obey the authorities of the City.

Accordingly, a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers, &c, assisted by a crowd of several hundred minions, who volunteered their services on the occasion, marching to the building, and breaking open the doors with a Sledge Hammer, commenced the work of destruction and desperation.

They tumbled the press and materials into the street, and set fire to them, and demolished the machinery with sledge hammer, and injured the building very materially. We made no resistance; but looked on and felt revenge, but leave it for the public to avenge this climax of insult and injury.

C. A. FOSTER.

June 11,1844.

We received the above communication by the hands of Charles A. Foster, about 1/2 past 11 o'clock to-day. We have only to state, that this is sufficient! War and extermination is inevitable! Citizens ARISE, ONE and ALL!!! -- Can you stand by, and suffer such INFERNAL DEVILS!! to ROB men of their property and RIGHTS, without avenging them. We have no time for comment, every man will make his own. LET IT BE MADE WITH POWDER AND BALL!!!


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: beck; glennbeck; inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; nauvoo
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166 years ago today...that the following occurred:

From the article: Mr. Sharp: -- I hasten to inform you of the UNPARALLELED OUTRAGE, perpetrated upon our rights and interests, by the ruthless, lawless, ruffian band of MORMON MOBOCRATS, at the dictum that of that UNPRINCIPLED wretch Joe Smith. We were privately informed that the CITY COUNCIL, which had been in extra session, for two days past; had enacted an ordinance in relation to libels, providing that anything that had been published, or anything that might be published tending to disparage the character of the officers of the city should be regarded as LAWLESS. They also declared the "Nauvoo Expositor," a "nuisance," and directed the police of the city to proceed immediately to the office of the Expositor and DESTROY THE PRESS and also the MATERIALS, by THROWING them into the STREET!!!! If any resistance were made, the officers were directed to demolish the building and property, of all who were concerned in publishing said paper; and also take all into custody, who might refuse to obey the authorities of the City. Accordingly, a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers, &c, assisted by a crowd of several hundred minions, who volunteered their services on the occasion, marching to the building, and breaking open the doors with a Sledge Hammer, commenced the work of destruction and desperation. They tumbled the press and materials into the street, and set fire to them, and demolished the machinery with sledge hammer, and injured the building very materially. We made no resistance; but looked on and felt revenge, but leave it for the public to avenge this climax of insult and injury.

How would we feel, if the Mormon "prophet" of today, "determined" that Free Republic was a "public nuisance" and ordered "a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers to march to Fresno, break down JimRob's business doors with a Sledge Hammer, and commence the work of destruction and desperation, tumbling computers, etc. into the street, and set fire to them, and demolished the machinery with sledge hammer???

Mormons celebrate all this? Why? Because they celebrate Smith as a martyr. And it was principally this act he ordered, that led to an eventual gun battle where Smith died (two guns were smuggled into Smith in prison, just like Ron Gardner's acts in Utah where he sits on death row for having a weapon smuggled into him)

Mormons don't celebrate Smith the criminal, but Smith the "martyr." They wind up essentially endorsing what Smith did to the Nauvoo Expositor. Hence, this doesn't remain merely an act in history. It catapults through time.

Go ahead. Ask your Mormon neighbor: "Was Joseph Smith committing criminal acts by ordering the destruction of the Expositor?" The answer you'll get will show where their absolutes lie -- and it won't be with Freedom of the Press.

1 posted on 06/11/2010 9:44:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Wow, that really was the title...


2 posted on 06/11/2010 9:45:52 AM PDT by Flightdeck (TANSTAAFL!)
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To: Colofornian

Interesting. I didn’t know this aspect of the affair.

Smith was demonic in his ways.


3 posted on 06/11/2010 9:50:26 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: Colofornian

I really think that mormonism is wacky.

But this happened a very long time ago. Are mormons today supposed to feel anymore guilt over this than white people in general should feel about slavery in this nation?


4 posted on 06/11/2010 9:54:23 AM PDT by Grunthor (Getting married, T minus 15 days.)
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To: Flightdeck

It was 1844....everything had that title. :)

Interesting piece.


5 posted on 06/11/2010 9:55:06 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Colofornian

The early mormons were not students or fans of the Constitution of the United States were they ???

They 1st Amendment rights of others...whether in religion or free speech or the freedom of the press ...were nonexistant in the mormon mindset..


6 posted on 06/11/2010 9:56:16 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Grunthor

Was destroying property an offense punishable by death, without trial?


7 posted on 06/11/2010 9:58:01 AM PDT by Dexter Morgan (Everyone hides who they are.)
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To: Dexter Morgan

Are mormons today supposed to feel anymore guilt over this than white people in general should feel about slavery in this nation?


8 posted on 06/11/2010 9:59:50 AM PDT by Grunthor (Getting married, T minus 15 days.)
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To: Grunthor
Not only that, but the Mormon's own printing press was destroyed by anti Mormon mobs much earlier in Ohio, so they likely thought it justified, given the circumstances, not saying it's politically correct, but that's the reality.

Add to this discussion the things that Abraham Lincoln did to newspapers and the press in general during the Civil War, and it takes on a whole new light.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/analysis.aspx?id=21225

They felt this as a war, and it was very much frontier America. Much different from today.

9 posted on 06/11/2010 10:00:08 AM PDT by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-4)
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To: Colofornian

Accordingly, a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers, &c, assisted by a crowd of several hundred minions, who volunteered their services on the occasion, marching to the building, and breaking open the doors with a Sledge Hammer, commenced the work of destruction and desperation.
________________________________________

Well isnt that special...

Joey Smith sent a LYNCH MOB of hundreds to make martyrs of the editors of the Nauvoo Expositor...

Plus his personal militia of 5,000 Danites were there too...

Joey Smith was a dangerous terrorist and tyrant who enticed others to riot on the streets of America..


10 posted on 06/11/2010 10:04:25 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Grunthor

Only if your name is Colofornian.


11 posted on 06/11/2010 10:05:35 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Ripliancum

They felt this as a war, and it was very much frontier America
_________________________________________

Then Joey Smith was shot as a war criminal...

or if you like...in battle...


12 posted on 06/11/2010 10:06:17 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

>>> How would we feel, if the Mormon “prophet” of today, “determined” that Free Republic was a “public nuisance” and ordered “a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers to march to Fresno, break down JimRob’s business doors with a Sledge Hammer, and commence the work of destruction and desperation, tumbling computers, etc. into the street, and set fire to them, and demolished the machinery with sledge hammer???

Well since you ask, I expect that depends on the circumstances. A brigade of freepers would march on the New York Times newsroom tomorrow if they thought they could. What’s your point ? By the way, has the “Mormon prophet of today” made any remarks at all about Free Republic I hadn’t heard of ?

I’m certain we are all excited by exploits of “religious” violence from a century and a half ago. We certainly don’t want that pot to ever stop boiling do we.

Carry on.


13 posted on 06/11/2010 10:08:49 AM PDT by tlb
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To: Tennessee Nana

Smith’s spirit was alive and in command at Mountain Meadows, too.


14 posted on 06/11/2010 10:09:14 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Grunthor
Are mormons today supposed to feel anymore guilt over this than white people in general should feel about slavery in this nation?

Good Q. It comes down to whether they acknowledge what happened was immoral, wrong, and criminal.

Now with slavery, it was immoral, wrong, and legal, so the "criminal" part doesn't apply. But there were already laws on the books against what Smith ordered. It was immoral, wrong, and illegal.

It didn't matter whatever Smith's city council tried to put together after the fact -- IOW after what was published. A city council can't make a decision and then suddenly apply it post-facto to somehing already published.

So the Q then comes down to this: Do Mormons declare Joseph Smith to be immoral, wrong, and criminal in his conduct on June 10 and June 11, 1844?

If they don't -- and it appears they don't given how they celebrate Smith as a heroic "martyr" today -- then that tells you your answer. Most physical descendents of families that embraced slavery -- and spiritual descendents of churches that endorsed slavery -- will at least declare that slavery was immoral and wrong...That's not the case with today's Mormons' backward view of Smith's actions on those days.

(If you don't believe me, take a tour of that Nauvoo jail...the Mormon church owns it, and gives tour guides...note how they describe the series of events involved)

15 posted on 06/11/2010 10:11:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Raider Sam

See post #15


16 posted on 06/11/2010 10:12:53 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

What religion do you belong to? Have you publicly denounced all acts that led to innocent deaths performed by people in your religion that happened many generations before you were born?


17 posted on 06/11/2010 10:25:48 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Tennessee Nana; All

“Accordingly, a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers, &c, assisted by a crowd of several hundred minions, who volunteered their services on the occasion, marching to the building, and breaking open the doors with a Sledge Hammer, commenced the work of destruction and desperation.”

And the reciprocity for this was that an armed company
of non-mormons whose property was destroyed and whose
wives were hit on by Smith, approached the jail. When
Joe Smith emptied his pistol into the crowd, he signed
his own death warrant, made the masonic sign of distress
and took a bullet for his crimes.

Frontier living at its finest.


18 posted on 06/11/2010 10:30:07 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: tlb; Grunthor
I’m certain we are all excited by exploits of “religious” violence from a century and a half ago. We certainly don’t want that pot to ever stop boiling do we.

Read post #15. If you go to the Mormon church's presentation of its Nauvoo jail scene @ that site in Illinois (today), you'll get a description where Mormons are proud of what Smith did...including what he did in the final weeks of his life.

The parallel would be: What if you went to a Southern Plantation. And they gave tour guides of what life was like in 1844. And pride over how those landowners ran their plantation -- including how they ran the lives of their slaves-- was part of the tour.

See, in this case, then, we're no longer talking then only about 1844 America, are we? Now we're talking about something different.

Furthermore, to take the parallel one step further, if you had historical specifics about what a theoretical "plantation" family did in abusing their slaves 166 years ago, and if those tour guide hosts commended all those actions 166 years later...then guess what? The pot is still boiling.

19 posted on 06/11/2010 10:30:58 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

If a plantation opened as a museum and they led a tour including how the slaves were treated, I would look at it like an educational experience.


20 posted on 06/11/2010 10:35:18 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Grunthor
Are mormons today supposed to feel anymore guilt over this than white people in general should feel about slavery in this nation?

Consider this...mormons have NO qualms about endlessly bringing up the "martyrdom" of their "prophet" and playing the victim card at every turn when their doctrines are questioned. Mormon leaders are working endlessly to revise the history of the sect and to convince the world that mormonism is the same as Christianity and that mormonism didn't denigrate Christians for 100 years.

So, if today's mormons will simply accept the FACTS of their history, and FACT that mormonism is NOT a Christian religion, and STOP sending out 50,000 missionaries every day to tell Christians THEIR faith is false, I'm sure that there will be fewer questions to "today's mormons".

BTW, congrats on your coming wedding.

Watch out for this:

mother-in-law

21 posted on 06/11/2010 10:42:38 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama is. the political equivalent of cubic zirconia)
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To: Raider Sam; Ripliancum
Have you publicly denounced all acts that led to innocent deaths performed by people in your religion that happened many generations before you were born?

I generically publicly denounce all acts that led to innocent deaths performed by people in my faith that happened many generations before I was born.

There. Ya happy?

If ya wanna be specific with certain dates of such certain acts, well, there's 365 days a year. Just do what I did. Post a thread on the anniversary of it. Ping me. And if those indeed involved innocent people, I'll denounce them for you.

Now. I dare you to ask Ripliancum (poster of post #9) the same Q. (Ripliancum's Lds)

You see, Raider, the subject of this thread is what happened on June 11, 1844. And sure, if you want to pretend you're part of the original Superman program prompter to start the TV program, and say, "Look! Over there! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a man!" I'm sure we could have a great discussion over the injustices of the planet Krypton being destroyed, and how glad we are that "Kal-El" (alias Clark Kent/Superman) was rocketed off the planet by his father Jor-El just in time...

But I think since I generically already answered your generic question as directly as I could, I think if we want to focus on the focus of this thread, I'd think it'd be more relevant that you now directly ask Ripliancum the same Q as it pertains to Nauvoo Expositor, June 11, 1844.

22 posted on 06/11/2010 10:43:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39

My MIL is a sweetie and she (like her daughter) bakes wonderfully. Unfortunately it’s led to my gaining 30 pounds in the last 18 months.


23 posted on 06/11/2010 10:45:09 AM PDT by Grunthor (Getting married, T minus 15 days.)
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To: Dexter Morgan
One of the greatest misjudgments in American history was the death of Smith. If he had been put on trial it would very easily have been the end of Mormonism. As it were a con man was turned into a Martyr for his misguided followers and minions.

No death is not an appropriate punishment for destroying a printing press. But having a contraband firearm in a jail is not a good idea. Even worse is when it is a jail surrounded by people who you have been scamming and stealing from. Worse than that it is a jail in a state you have been threatening with take over while telling folk you are greater than Christ himself and you have your own standing army that rivaled the military of the USA in size and capability.

These sort of things can lead to unfortunate circumstances...

24 posted on 06/11/2010 10:49:07 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Christians: Stand for Christ or stand aside...)
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To: Raider Sam
If a plantation opened as a museum and they led a tour including how the slaves were treated, I would look at it like an educational experience.

Oh, true, I agree. Just like the Mormons are at least partially authentic in wanting to preserve the Nauvoo jail as a historical landmark. There's real education to be had there. No qualms about that.

But the Mormons @ Nauvoo go beyond education to outright propaganda (for example, in discussing the reasons why Smith was in jail in the first place, which was the Nauvoo Expositor destruction). And then, when pressed upon it, you won't get either your Nauvoo hosts -- nor your average Mormon -- to condemn Smith for what he did June 10-11, 1844.

So, likewise, extending that parallel...yes, if a plantation opened as a museum, it would be motivated by the "educational experience" you mentioned. But, if, as they described how slaves were treated, you pressed your tour hosts, and they indicated that how slaves were violently treated was 100% justified because of how "immoral" all their slaves were, then...at that point, we've moved beyond education and entered the realm of propaganda...

25 posted on 06/11/2010 10:50:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Just glanced through a bit of your posting history. It’s rather sad actually. The internet does some people no favors at all.

Such hysteria against Mormons. I’ve seen jihad sites less hostile. I’d hate to live that way. I wonder if it would be allowed at all except some might think in some longshot way it perhaps could undermine Mitt Romney. Just for the record, whatever happened 7 or 8 generations ago won’t tip the primaries either way.

Not a Mormon here btw. But not disturbed by them as such either.


26 posted on 06/11/2010 10:57:45 AM PDT by tlb
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To: Colofornian

I know what the subject of the thread it. ITs the subject of all your threads. Through your actions, you dont promote whatever religion you believe in. All you do is attack Mormons.

Your tact in getting people to quit Mormonism is the same as the “truth” commercials trying to get people to dump cigarettes. When you insult your intended converts, they arent gonna come to you.

What religion do you actually belong to? Or do you just hate Mormons.


27 posted on 06/11/2010 10:57:50 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Ripliancum; Grunthor; ejonesie22; Tennessee Nana; Godzilla; reaganaut; FastCoyote
...but the Mormon's own printing press was destroyed by anti Mormon mobs much earlier in Ohio, so they likely thought it justified, given the circumstances, not saying it's politically correct, but that's the reality.

Wow. Flabbergasted that somebody like you has bought this line, hook & sinker attached. (Better have someone extract that hook so that as you remain on the fish string, at least you won't be in pain). WHO taught you that propaganda? Did you know, Rip, that the church printing office was sold in Kirtland, Jan. 15, 1838 at a public auction to pay a debt? (Did you that Smith left in the middle of the night from Kirtland because of his debts?)

Did you know that it wasn't til the day after this sale, that the printing office burned? And that a man Smith named to be an Lds apostle has been pinpointed by historians as the culprit? (A Mormon journalist I cite below mentions the reason...the Mormons didn't want the printing press to fall into the "anti-Mormons'" hands)

Just last week, at Great Moments in Mormon History, I mentioned in post #24:

1838: Jan. 15: The church printing office in Kirtland is attached and sold at public auction to pay a debt to Grandison Newell. [Source: Saints Without Halos

Jan. 16: The church printing office burns. Dissenters claim the church burned it rather than let anyone else have it. Members claim dissenter Lyman Sherman burned it to keep the church from getting it back. [Source: Saints Without Halos

Comment: The Mormon leaders did not want the "anti-Mormons" to have this printing press to produce anti-Mormon material. So, just like the Nauvoo Expositor issue to come 77 months later, the Mormons destroyed a printing press! According to this Utah Mormon journalist -- see Early Mormon Sherman died without ever knowing he was called to be an apostle :

Sherman was a close friend of Joseph Smith. He served as a president in the first Quorum of the Seventies from 1835 to 1837...Sherman also participated in secret anointings and ceremonies in the Kirtland Temple and according to reports, spoke in tongues. As the saints were being forced from Kirtland, opposition leaders sought to use a printing office to manufacture anti-LDS tracts. That printing office was destroyed by fire to prevent that, and historians believe it was the ever-faithful Sherman who set the blaze to thwart Smith’s enemies. Sherman then moved to Missouri and was on the Far West stake high council. Here’s where it gets interesting. While in Liberty Jail in January 1839, Smith, Sidney Rigdon and Hyrum Smith wrote to Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball that Sherman should be made an apostle. However, unknown to Smith, Sherman’s health was ruined after the Kirtland strife and he was dying. Kimball and Young, for reasons still unclear, chose not to tell Sherman of his call to the apostleship. Perhaps Sherman was in a coma? In any event, this early church leader died in February 1839, in Far West, never knowing about his call.

28 posted on 06/11/2010 10:59:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

My only question here is how is this different than Northerners defending some of Lincoln’s Constitutional suspensions for the greater good of the nation or Southerners defending firing on Fed troops for the greater good of economic freedom.

I guess, what isnt propaganda in this world?


29 posted on 06/11/2010 11:01:13 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Grunthor; Colofornian

It isn’t about guilt. It is about the fact that the LDS say Joseph Smith was ‘martyred’ for his faith, when in reality, he was in jail because of this event and the outrage that led to the gunbattle (it wasn’t a martyrdom) that killed Smith was based upon this event.

IOW, the LDS lies and whitewashes their history. The real story is NOTHING like the LDS claim.


30 posted on 06/11/2010 11:01:51 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Dexter Morgan; Grunthor

Was destroying property an offense punishable by death, without trial?

- - - -
No, it was a lynching. It was 1844 and lychings happened.

No one denies Smith was murdered. Being lynched for destruction of a press does not a martyrdom make.


31 posted on 06/11/2010 11:04:01 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana

They 1st Amendment rights of others...whether in religion or free speech or the freedom of the press ...were nonexistant in the mormon mindset..

- - - -
It is similar to what we see here, free speech for them but not for us (or those who oppose them).

There have been several calls for us to be silenced because we tell the truth about LDS history and doctrine.


32 posted on 06/11/2010 11:05:47 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Ripliancum

Not only that, but the Mormon’s own printing press was destroyed by anti Mormon mobs much earlier in Ohio

- - - -
Source??


33 posted on 06/11/2010 11:07:29 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: tlb

34 posted on 06/11/2010 11:08:07 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Christians: Stand for Christ or stand aside...)
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To: Raider Sam; tlb
I'm an evangelical Christian...I'm a descendent of Mormon polygamists. I'm not an ex-Mormon. I have wonderful Lds (extended) family whom I love.

Jesus was always harshest (sounding) to the legalists of his day (the Pharisees). The truth often hurts. Tough love is still love, even when it's tough.

If you want to cover up truth, why if we did a re-enactment (you know how re-enactments are all the rage of this generation), why, you and tlb might be perfect typecasts for some of the roles described in this very article posted...let's see, how did the Warsaw Messenger journalist describe it? Oh, yea: Accordingly, a company consisting of some 200 men, armed and equipped, with Muskets, Swords, Pistols, Bowie Knives, Sledge-Hammers, &c, assisted by a crowd of several hundred minions...

(See, in this re-enactment, you and tlb wouldn't be holding the Muskets, swords, pistols, bowie knives, or sledge-hammers...those would be the Mormons in action...you and tlb would be among the "several hundred minions"...and why would that be an apt word picture?)

Because by being allies of the destroyers of Freedom of the Press, and trying to make the issue about me whose merely expressing historical truth, it's pretty obvious you'd love to shut me up -- exactly the same motive as Smith and his band of musket-wielders, swordsman, pistol-bearers, and hammerers held on June 11, 1844.

So, thank you. You both have done the best we could to do, impromptu-wise via a "virtual re-enactment"...so that other FREEPERS and lurkers can see, that censorship isn't dead. The censors still magnetically draw their allies...minions like those who popped up June 11, 1844.

35 posted on 06/11/2010 11:12:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Joey Smith attacked and burnt down the Nauvoo Expositor Building because they had published the truth about the adultery and polygamy of Joey Smith...

At that time Joey smith have 40+ “plural wives” or mistresses which which he had had sex and committed adultery...in 1844 legally called “unlawful habitation” and punishable by a prison sentence....

and Joey Smith claimed and wrote on July 12, 1843 that his mormon god had told him to practice polygamy in a “revelation” a year before he had destroyed a privately owned newspaper for publishing the same new “doctrine”

and as early as 1831, Joey smith was teaching his followers to practice polygamy...

“The exact date I cannot give you when this principle of plural marriage was first revealed to Joseph Smith, but I do know that there was a revelation given in July 1831, in the presence of Oliver Cowdery, W. W. Phelps and others in Missouri, in which the Lord made this principle known through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Whether the revelation as it appears in the Doctrine and Covenants as [sic] first given July 12, 1843, or earlier, I care not. It is a fact, nevertheless, that this principle was revealed at an earlier date” (Joseph F Smith, Letter dated September 5, 1935, typed copy)

And a letter from Cowdery himself...

In a letter dated Jan. 21, 1838, Cowdery wrote: “When he [Joseph Smith] was there we had some conversation in which in every instance I did not fail to affirm that what I had said was strictly true. A dirty, nasty, filthy affair of his and Fanny Alger’s was talked over in which I strictly declared that I had never deviated from the truth in the matter, and as I supposed was admitted by himself.” (Letter written by Oliver Cowdery and recorded by his brother Warren Cowdery)

Why would Joey Smith attempt to deny so drastically something his mormon god had supposedly told him to do ???

After Joseph Smith’s death the denials of polygamy continued to come forth in Mormon publications. When someone stated that Joseph Smith taught polygamy, the Latter-Day Saints’ Millennial Star (vol. 12, p. 29-30) called it a lie

And yet that same mormon religion owned newspaper, the Millennial Star, after stating

“The Latter-day Saints, from the rise of the Church in 1830, till the year 1843, had no authority to marry any more than one wife each. To have done otherwise, would have been a great transgression” (Millennial Star, vol. 19, p. 475, July 25, 1857).

Later when it was admitted in the Millennial Star that polygamy was part of the mormon belief and practice, new converts to mormonism in Britian refused to go to “Zion” as the mormons called the Utah Territory..

Mormonism was so entrenched in polygamyHeber C Kimball made this emphatic declaration: “It would be as easy for the United States to build a tower to remove the sun, as to remove polygamy, or the Church and kingdom of God.” (Millennial Star, vol. 28, p. 190)


36 posted on 06/11/2010 11:14:14 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian; Raider Sam; Ripliancum
".. since I generically already answered your generic question as directly as I could, I think if we want to focus on the focus of this thread.."

My comment:

OK.
This entire thread is inflammatory and otherwise without merit. It is not going to change anyone's beliefs and makes no more sense than would my posting about the history of the Catholic church and it's proud record as a pseudo government over Europe and probable conspiracy against the Templars.

In the event that a hoard of rabid Mormons descend on some small town newspaper, somewhere in Utah, and break up the PC's and microwave, you might be justified in posting about a CURRENT EVENT. An event involving an established religion, in the USA, at a time when we are being told that islam is merely being misrepresented by a few (otherwise downtrodden) loonies and demonized by the "Radical Christian Right".

Good luckily luck with that...that.

37 posted on 06/11/2010 11:17:52 AM PDT by norton
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To: reaganaut; Grunthor
There have been several calls for us to be silenced because we tell the truth about LDS history and doctrine.

Exactly.

If they can't get to us, they'll go after the publishing outlet next.

38 posted on 06/11/2010 11:19:39 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Raider Sam; Colofornian

Wow...look over there.

Huge diff, Raider.

Christians can and do admit that church history often sucks. Big deal. Our faith is not tied to a particular denomination or church. We are part of the body of Christ, regardless of what church we worship at.

But the LDS do not have that luxury. Why? Because their entire church is founded on Smith’s stories that God and Jesus PERSONALLY ‘restored’ their particular church and that the LDS church is the ONLY ‘true church’ and the only denomination that is authorized by God.

Now THAT is a huge claim. If Smith was a prophet of God, if his claims were true, then LDS church history is subject to scrutiny (as is their doctrine) simply because of these claims of special status in the eyes of God.

Many (if not all) of those involved in this instance believed Smith was speaking for God. Either he was or he wasn’t. If he wasn’t, then he mislead his followers into committing illegal acts.

Now, if the LDS want to throw out their claim that Smith ‘restored’ the ‘true church’, and that he was a prophet, AND admit that they have been OUTRIGHT LYING about their history since the beginning, THEN we can consider how their history compares to Christian church history.


39 posted on 06/11/2010 11:21:41 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Frontier living at its finest.

- - - -
LOL. Now that I live in the ‘wild west’, I am finding stories about lynchings are very common- almost every town had at least one lynching (including a couple where they broke the criminal out of jail to kill him). That doesn’t make it right, and the towns express regret for it, but it is interesting to note how common it was when there was little or no law enforcement.

“He needed killin’” is actually a defense argument.


40 posted on 06/11/2010 11:25:30 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ejonesie22

you have your own standing army that rivaled the military of the USA in size and capability.
_______________________________________________

Joey Smith had his own private standing vigilante army (like the drug loads in Mexico)

He had at least 5,00 well trained guerillas...

The US army had about 8,000

Is it any wonder that the US government was concerned about the John Brown like Joey Smith ???


41 posted on 06/11/2010 11:25:31 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: ejonesie22

you have your own standing army that rivaled the military of the USA in size and capability.
_______________________________________________

Joey Smith had his own private standing vigilante army (like the drug loads in Mexico)

He had at least 5,000 well trained guerillas...

The US army had about 8,000 soldiers..

Is it any wonder that the US government was concerned about the John Brown like Joey Smith ???


42 posted on 06/11/2010 11:26:18 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

Dude, no one is trying to shut you up. I cant censor anything you say.

You have an obsession with Mormons that you cant get rid of. Just because people think you’re obsessed and ask you why you only attack Mormons, doesnt mean we are trying to shut you down.

Maybe Im giving you tough love by telling you to let go of your hate. But you are only concerned with destroying Mormons.


43 posted on 06/11/2010 11:27:45 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Colofornian

Who has called for you to be silenced? You are a characature of what you wish you believed.


44 posted on 06/11/2010 11:29:47 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Colofornian
If they last that long. The Internet is hammering the LDS. I mean when you have an entire forum of folk who are discussing the trials of trying to exist in the LDS culture for various personal reasons despite knowing the religion is a sham, well...

Also I have little concern about being silenced.

Outside of the fruitless efforts of LDS folk and a few of their non LDS friends who make efforts such as seen here on this very thread, the silent majoity know it is a bunch of hooey as we get glimpses of when non Inmans post.

Among the rest there are a large number of Christians who have seen nothing but the brochures who if and when they learn about the well hidden words of what the LDS has said about them, their Church and most of all the slander it spreads about their Savior would change their tune if not fully enjoin the battle that we as Christians were directed to fight against false doctrine and prophets.

45 posted on 06/11/2010 11:32:08 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Christians: Stand for Christ or stand aside...)
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To: reaganaut

How can you say Christian faith is not tied to denominations when Catholics and Protestants call each other cults here on FR?

And no, Christians dont denounce it, because they dont need to. Maybe the church denounced it, but it would be pointless for me to ask you to denounce something that someone else did who had the same beliefs as you. That is what this is about.

Did Jesus destroy a temple?

Did men decide which books made it into the Bible?

Where is your scrutiny of this?

And what if he was speaking for God? All you give is strawmen about what if he wasnt.


46 posted on 06/11/2010 11:34:38 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Raider Sam
Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

47 posted on 06/11/2010 11:34:53 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: norton; Grunthor; tlb; Raider Sam; Ripliancum
It is not going to change anyone's beliefs...

(Thank you, all-knowing one...if you'd had only told us God gave you this gift of omniscience, we would have consulted you before posting...)

...makes no more sense than would my posting about the history of the Catholic church and it's proud record as a pseudo government over Europe and probable conspiracy against the Templars.

Please provide a parallel similar to my convo with RaiderSam in posts #19 & #25 -- that matches up. Perhaps you could come up with an example of present-day Catholics who openly and daily propagandize about a historical event where they are indeed still "proud" about how they carried out an immoral and criminal act.

If you can provide such an example, well, then, at least you have a basis for your comment.

The key Q here -- one that you've raised...and Grunthor raised in post #8, and tlb raised in post #13, is: Is it unfair to highlight contemporary Mormons over the actions that occurred 166 years ago?

I immediately wrote back to Grunthor that he raised a "good Q." So to answer that Q, we need to look at how contemporary Mormons describe these actions of 166 years ago.

(1) If you look at Lds professional apologists, they always try to justify Smith's actions as mayor of Nauvoo.
(2) If you look at the Lds Mormon church, they, too, when they deal with it at all, justify Smith and portray him as this proud heroic martyr -- NOT as a criminal jailbird in possession of two weapons that he fired in going out in his "blaze of glory." This propagandist portrayal extends to the Mormon church's ownership of the Nauvoo jailhouse where Smith was killed.
(3) If you merely ask your Mormon neighbor or co-worker, "How would you describe Smith's actions on June 10 and 11, 1844 -- when he ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor? Moral? Immoral? Criminal? Legit?"

Ask away, and you'll see what I mean. I don't find Catholics who publicly, daily, go out of their way to present all of the Papal hierarchies (keyword, "all") of the past as above immoral acts. Nor do they then necessarily initiate false or horribly incomplete presentations that present the most villainous of Papal hierarchies in wonderful halo lights.

(If you know of examples, by all means, correct me on this).

And, since you concede that the Catholic church operated as a "pseudo government," it's difficult in European history to often tell where the law began and ended in regard to religious authority. (IOW, trying to hit the re-wind button & determine what constituted "only" immoral acts vs. acts deemed as "criminal.")

Bottom line...you have not drawn an equitable parallel.

48 posted on 06/11/2010 11:37:54 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: reaganaut

Not sure about Ohio, but in Independence Missouri it was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evening_and_Morning_Star


49 posted on 06/11/2010 11:39:33 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: Raider Sam
Who has called for you to be silenced?

In any discussion, there's usually 2 sides plus sometimes a third neutral "peacemaking" side. You haven't taken a neutral position on this thread. Instead, you've rushed to the side of a contemporary people group who still defend that it was "proper" for the destruction of the freedom of the press.

We haven't seen you indicate how "horrible" of an act this was. In fact, your first post (#17) was full of trying to change the subject of this thread. In that post, and post #27, you've gone "on the offense" against the messenger who posted it. You'd like for this thread to be a thread about me (more changing the subject).

Whenever posters want to talk more about the messenger than the historical news or message original in the thread, the alarm should go off for people, because a "let's talk about something else...other religious history...your religious background" is tantamount to sequestering anything but actually staying on topic.

I didn't invent this act in history.
I wasn't the journalist writing for the Warsaw Messenger on June 11 and again on June 12 in writing this.
Nor am I among the people group or its allies still defending it 166 years later.
And it seems you are more than bothered to read about this act of history, and thereby attach blame to the messenger.

So, tell us, which side are you on? Did you favor this destruction or not?
Do you favor the opinion of people who still defend this act 166 years later or not?

50 posted on 06/11/2010 11:54:39 AM PDT by Colofornian
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