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The Great Heresies
CERC ^

Posted on 03/21/2010 3:03:29 PM PDT by NYer

From Christianity’s beginnings, the Church has been attacked by those introducing false teachings, or heresies.

The Bible warned us this would happen. Paul told his young protégé, Timothy, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths" (2 Tim. 4:3–4).

What Is Heresy?

Heresy is an emotionally loaded term that is often misused. It is not the same thing as incredulity, schism, apostasy, or other sins against faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him" (CCC 2089).

To commit heresy, one must refuse to be corrected. A person who is ready to be corrected or who is unaware that what he has been saying is against Church teaching is not a heretic.

A person must be baptized to commit heresy. This means that movements that have split off from or been influenced by Christianity, but that do not practice baptism (or do not practice valid baptism), are not heresies, but separate religions. Examples include Muslims, who do not practice baptism, and Jehovah's Witnesses, who do not practice valid baptism.

Finally, the doubt or denial involved in heresy must concern a matter that has been revealed by God and solemnly defined by the Church (for example, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of the Mass, the pope's infallibility, or the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary).

It is important to distinguish heresy from schism and apostasy. In schism, one separates from the Catholic Church without repudiating a defined doctrine. An example of a contemporary schism is the Society of St. Pius X—the "Lefebvrists" or followers of the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre—who separated from the Church in the late 1980s, but who have not denied Catholic doctrines. In apostasy, one totally repudiates the Christian faith and no longer even claims to be a Christian.

With this in mind, let's look at some of the major heresies of Church history and when they began.

The Circumcisers (1st Century)

The Circumcision heresy may be summed up in the words of Acts 15:1: "But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.'"

Many of the early Christians were Jews, who brought to the Christian faith many of their former practices. They recognized in Jesus the Messiah predicted by the prophets and the fulfillment of the Old Testament. Because circumcision had been required in the Old Testament for membership in God's covenant, many thought it would also be required for membership in the New Covenant that Christ had come to inaugurate. They believed one must be circumcised and keep the Mosaic law to come to Christ. In other words, one had to become a Jew to become a Christian.

But God made it clear to Peter in Acts 10 that Gentiles are acceptable to God and may be baptized and become Christians without circumcision. The same teaching was vigorously defended by Paul in his epistles to the Romans and the Galatians—to areas where the Circumcision heresy had spread.

Gnosticism (1st and 2nd Centuries)

"Matter is evil!" was the cry of the Gnostics. This idea was borrowed from certain Greek philosophers. It stood against Catholic teaching, not only because it contradicts Genesis 1:31 ("And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good") and other scriptures, but because it denies the Incarnation. If matter is evil, then Jesus Christ could not be true God and true man, for Christ is in no way evil. Thus many Gnostics denied the Incarnation, claiming that Christ only appeared to be a man, but that his humanity was an illusion. Some Gnostics, recognizing that the Old Testament taught that God created matter, claimed that the God of the Jews was an evil deity who was distinct from the New Testament God of Jesus Christ. They also proposed belief in many divine beings, known as "aeons," who mediated between man and the ultimate, unreachable God. The lowest of these aeons, the one who had contact with men, was supposed to be Jesus Christ.

Montanism (Late 2nd Century)

Montanus began his career innocently enough through preaching a return to penance and fervor. His movement also emphasized the continuance of miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues and prophecy. However, he also claimed that his teachings were above those of the Church, and soon he began to teach Christ's imminent return in his home town in Phrygia. There were also statements that Montanus himself either was, or at least specially spoke for, the Paraclete that Jesus had promised would come (in reality, the Holy Spirit).

Sabellianism (Early 3rd Century)

The Sabellianists taught that Jesus Christ and God the Father were not distinct persons, but two.aspects or offices of one person. According to them, the three persons of the Trinity exist only in God's relation to man, not in objective reality.

Arianism (4th Century)

Arius taught that Christ was a creature made by God. By disguising his heresy using orthodox or near-orthodox terminology, he was able to sow great confusion in the Church. He was able to muster the support of many bishops, while others excommunicated him.

Arianism was solemnly condemned in 325 at the First Council of Nicaea, which defined the divinity of Christ, and in 381 at the First Council of Constantinople, which defined the divinity of the Holy Spirit. These two councils gave us the Nicene creed, which Catholics recite at Mass every Sunday.

Pelagianism (5th Century)

Pelagius denied that we inherit original sin from Adam's sin in the Garden and claimed that we become sinful only through the bad example of the sinful community into which we are born. Conversely, he denied that we inherit righteousness as a result of Christ's death on the cross and said that we become personally righteous by instruction and imitation in the Christian community, following the example of Christ. Pelagius stated that man is born morally neutral and can achieve heaven under his own powers. According to him, God's grace is not truly necessary, but merely makes easier an otherwise difficult task.

Semi-Pelagianism (5th Century)

After Augustine refuted the teachings of Pelagius, some tried a modified version of his system. This, too, ended in heresy by claiming that humans can reach out to God under their own power, without God's grace; that once a person has entered a state of grace, one can retain it through one's efforts, without further grace from God; and that natural human effort alone can give one some claim to receiving grace, though not strictly merit it.

Nestorianism (5th Century)

This heresy about the person of Christ was initiated by Nestorius, bishop of Constantinople, who denied Mary the title of Theotokos (Greek: "God-bearer" or, less literally, "Mother of God"). Nestorius claimed that she only bore Christ's human nature in her womb, and proposed the alternative title Christotokos ("Christ-bearer" or "Mother of Christ").

Orthodox Catholic theologians recognized that Nestorius's theory would fracture Christ into two separate persons (one human and one divine, joined in a sort of loose unity), only one of whom was in her womb. The Church reacted in 431 with the Council of Ephesus, defining that Mary can be properly referred to as the Mother of God, not in the sense that she is older than God or the source of God, but in the sense that the person she carried in her womb was, in fact, God incarnate ("in the flesh").

There is some doubt whether Nestorius himself held the heresy his statements imply, and in this century, the Assyrian Church of the East, historically regarded as a Nestorian church, has signed a fully orthodox joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and rejects Nestorianism. It is now in the process of coming into full ecclesial communion with the Catholic Church.

Monophysitism (5th Century)

Monophysitism originated as a reaction to Nestorianism. The Monophysites (led by a man named Eutyches) were horrified by Nestorius's implication that Christ was two people with two different natures (human and divine). They went to the other extreme, claiming that Christ was one person with only one nature (a fusion of human and divine elements). They are thus known as Monophysites because of their claim that Christ had only one nature (Greek: mono = one; physis = nature).

Orthodox Catholic theologians recognized that Monophysitism was as bad as Nestorianism because it denied Christ's full humanity and full divinity. If Christ did not have a fully human nature, then he would not be fully human, and if he did not have a fully divine nature then he was not fully divine.

Iconoclasm (7th and 8th Centuries)

This heresy arose when a group of people known as iconoclasts (literally, "icon smashers") appeared, who claimed that it was sinful to make pictures and statues of Christ and the saints, despite the fact that in the Bible, God had commanded the making of religious statues (Ex. 25:18–20; 1 Chr. 28:18–19), including symbolic representations of Christ (cf. Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14).

Catharism (11th Century)

Catharism was a complicated mix of non-Christian religions reworked with Christian terminology. The Cathars had many different sects; they had in common a teaching that the world was created by an evil deity (so matter was evil) and we must worship the good deity instead.

The Albigensians formed one of the largest Cathar sects. They taught that the spirit was created by God, and was good, while the body was created by an evil god, and the spirit must be freed from the body. Having children was one of the greatest evils, since it entailed imprisoning another "spirit" in flesh. Logically, marriage was forbidden, though fornication was permitted. Tremendous fasts and severe mortifications of all kinds were practiced, and their leaders went about in voluntary poverty.

Protestantism (16th Century)

Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone"—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide ("by faith alone"—the idea that we are justified by faith only).

The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church "against" the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.

The doctrine of private judgment has resulted in an enormous number of different denominations. According to The Christian Sourcebook, there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations, with 270 new ones being formed each year. Virtually all of these are Protestant.


Jansenism (17th Century)

Jansenius, bishop of Ypres, France, initiated this heresy with a paper he wrote on Augustine, which redefined the doctrine of grace. Among other doctrines, his followers denied that Christ died for all men, but claimed that he died only for those who will be finally saved (the elect). This and other Jansenist errors were officially condemned by Pope Innocent X in 1653.

Heresies have been with us from the Church's beginning. They even have been started by Church leaders, who were then corrected by councils and popes. Fortunately, we have Christ's promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church, for he told Peter, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). The Church is truly, in Paul's words, "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; churchhistory; dogma; dogmatics; heresy; theology
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To: D-fendr
How do you reconcile your view with free will?

Sorry, I see nothing irreconcilable about what the Bible says regarding mankind's God-given freedom to accept or reject the gift of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.

I am neither a Calvinist nor Armianist. That's not what this thread is about anyway.

41 posted on 03/22/2010 8:29:16 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: NYer
STEP 3: Accuse the Catholic church of denying salvation by grace.

Just playing with the words again. Oh, that you really did teach and believe that to its fullest! How sad that the church in Rome, founded by Paul the Apostle, could veer so far away from what he stressed more than any of the other writers of scripture. God entrusted him with so much revelation about the gift of eternal life based not on man's works but purely by God's grace through faith.

That the church in Rome today not only denies this eternal truth, but condemns as heretical anyone who does not agree with them, must make him quite sad. I am grieved as well.

42 posted on 03/22/2010 8:54:07 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums
mankind's God-given freedom to accept or reject the gift of eternal life

Is this acceptance or rejection something you do?

if you believe you are saved by faith plus something else you do - regardless of what that something else is - then you are NOT placing your trust in Jesus Christ as your savior

43 posted on 03/22/2010 9:04:24 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Is this acceptance or rejection something you do?

When someone who loves you gives you a gift, you can accept the gift or turn it down, either way "a gift" by virtue of the word implied is not something earned, not something for which you "do" anything. If you receive it, it is yours, if you reject it, you do not have it. I don't know any way to explain it in simpler terms.

44 posted on 03/22/2010 9:10:48 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums

If I have free will, I can choose to accept a gift or turn it down.

A choice is an act of free will.

Would you agree?


45 posted on 03/22/2010 9:13:37 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

We already had a BIG long thread on this subject. Ain’t in the mood to discuss the whole free will/predestination, faith is/is not a gift subject, if you don’t mind.


46 posted on 03/22/2010 9:28:38 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums

Certainly.


47 posted on 03/22/2010 9:31:51 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: terycarl; boatbums
he is exxpressing an opinion....you’re way too thin skinned.....you are wrong, but thin skinned about it!!

You cannot separate the expression ("the opinion") from the labels ("heretics" & "false teachers").

It's like when the Dixie Checks played a concert overseas (I believe it was 2003) & took the opportunity to criticize our President on foreign soil. They, too, were simply "expressing an opinion"...and many conservatives elected, in response, to do one or more of the following...
...not purchase future Dixie Chicks' CDs
...not attend their concerts
...while some even dumped what they already owned produced by them...

Now I suppose you could have come along, wagged your finger @ that those folks who responded in that way, claiming, "you're way too thin skinned." But the reality is that words & actions can have economic consequences. And if consumers don't want their $ going to the Dixie Chicks, that was their economic free will & discretion, right?

Likewise, the author of this article should bear some consequences for dissing all Protestants as "heretics" & "false teachers." If this man's "advisory board" wants to stand by him, fine, that's their "free expression." But "free expression" is not a one-way street.

For years I've been wanting to buy another specific J. Budziszewski book. He's a great author. I have three Peter Kreeft books. A fine author. I will no longer recommend either; and will never cite them. Why? Because they have shown poor discernment. They want to peddle their books & products to us Protestant readers -- all the while their friends & formal associates attack us as "heretics" & "false teachers." I'm sorry, but there's a bit of a "disconnect" there.

I call upon all Protestant FReepers reading this thread to do the same. For all I know, some of the "advisory board" may also provide $ funding to the CERC Web site. If CERC has declared all Protestants as their enemies, we don't need to be funding those who posturing themselves this way, or those who are "advising" them to do this.

48 posted on 03/22/2010 11:09:17 PM PDT by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)
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To: boatbums; annalex; Colofornian; irishtenor
I see that this is really a game of semantics then, too.

On the contrary. The expression "faith alone" only appears once in the Bible-in James 2:24-where it is rejected. James views intellectual assent as good thing ("you do well," v. 19a), but not as a thing that will save us by itself (vv. 14, 17, 20, 24, 26).

49 posted on 03/23/2010 3:51:28 AM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: boatbums; NYer; Colofornian; irishtenor
if you believe you are saved by faith plus something else you do - regardless of what that something else is - then you are NOT placing your trust in Jesus Christ as your savior.

Note that you no longer are reading any scripture. You are not because the scripture does not support this false dichotomy. You are instead following a teaching of men -- a logic that is appealing to you, but not the message communicated in the Gospel, which never separates works from faith:

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2)

50 posted on 03/23/2010 5:16:42 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Colofornian; terycarl; boatbums
all the while their friends & formal associates attack us as "heretics" & "false teachers."

Protestantism is a heresy and protestant pastors are false teachers, -- they are "wolves that scatter" (Luke 11:23, John 10:12). If you'd rather buy books from people who let their readers' heads remain planted in the sand, it's a free country, or so it was, but for your own sake you should rather seek the truth.

51 posted on 03/23/2010 5:21:44 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: NYer

To me, it sounds as if it is not:

“Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him” (CCC 2089).”

Doesn’t the above exclude Islam? Or am I wrong?


52 posted on 03/23/2010 5:26:04 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

You’re right.


53 posted on 03/23/2010 6:07:14 AM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: NYer
 
Heresies have been with us from the Church's beginning. They even have been started by Church leaders, who were then corrected by councils and popes. Fortunately, we have Christ's promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church, for he told Peter, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
 
 
The Church is truly, in Paul's words, "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
Matthew 8:14
 14.  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

1 Corinthians 10:4
  and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
Romans 9:33
   As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
Numbers 20:8
  "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
Deuteronomy 32:4
 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
Deuteronomy 32:15
 Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
1 Samuel 2:2
 "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
 2 Samuel 22:47
   "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
Psalms 19:14
  May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
Psalms 28:1
 To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
Psalms 42:9
 I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
Psalms 62:2
  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
Psalms 62:6
 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
Psalms 62:7
 My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
Psalms 71:3
 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
Psalms 89:26
  He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
Psalms 95:1
 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
Psalms 144:1
  Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
Isaiah 44:8
 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
Habakkuk 1:12
 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!

54 posted on 03/23/2010 6:16:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura (”by Scripture alone”—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide (”by faith alone”—the idea that we are justified by faith only).

The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church “against” the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.”

Matthew 16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.


55 posted on 03/23/2010 6:28:03 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: annalex

Well Spoken!


56 posted on 03/23/2010 6:36:37 AM PDT by johngrace
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To: boatbums
It is truly sad that you cannot see that ALLreligion enslaves mankind by putting the responsibility on him to earn salvation rather than God reaching down to us and binding us back to him through unmerited, unearned, undeserved GRACE.

I'm not a Catholic, but I don't see 'all religion enslaves'. Your exhortation is a good example of 'sola fide'. The Catholic problems arises from this error pointed out in the article:

sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone"—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology)

Scripture is the only true source of doctrine as it is the only 'certified' Word of God extant. Certified by God Himself.

57 posted on 03/23/2010 6:40:24 AM PDT by xone
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To: annalex; boatbums; NYer; Colofornian

What I find odd is that you use a proof text that proves OUR point. It is NOT by works, it is by faith. And how do you get that faith? Through Jesus who calls you by name. You don’t do ANYTHING. It is NOT of yourselves, but God alone, through faith alone. It is NOT of works, so that man may say “See what I have done? I have approached God.” Even our “good works” demonstrate the faith that God puts in us, and does not demonstrate how much we have aspired to be with God. They are works GOD has prepared for us.
Again, thanks for OUR proof text :>)

May God be with you all. Irishtenor.


58 posted on 03/23/2010 8:58:56 AM PDT by irishtenor (Beer. God's way of making sure the Irish don't take over the world.)
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To: Elsie
Well thank you, Elsie, for joining the discussion. You commented:

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'

?? Where is that? Matthew, in verse 16, is referring to the person of Simon Peter, but this gospel was written after the ascension. So how does Jesus refer to Peter? You have placed that text in red to indicate it is a quotation: Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

It is not until the next line that our Lord changes Simon's name to Peter.

18. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Now, Elsie, what language did Jesus and His apostles speak? Aramaic. The conversation that took place on that day was in Aramaic. We know that Jesus spoke Aramaic because some of his words are preserved for us in the Gospels. Look at Matthew 27:46, where he says from the cross, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ So when Jesus called Peter "rock", he was speaking in Aramaic. Rock in Aramaic is kepha.

Now, let's look at the scene. Not only was there significance in Simon being given a new and unusual name, but the place where Jesus solemnly conferred it upon Peter was also important. It happened when "Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi" (Matt. 16:13), a city that Philip the Tetrarch built and named in honor of Caesar Augustus, who had died in A.D. 14. The city lay near cascades in the Jordan River and near a gigantic wall of rock, a wall about 200 feet high and 500 feet long, which is part of the southern foothills of Mount Hermon. The city no longer exists, but its ruins are near the small Arab town of Banias; and at the base of the rock wall may be found what is left of one of the springs that fed the Jordan. It was here that Jesus pointed to Simon and said, "You are Peter" (Matt. 16:18).

The significance of the event must have been clear to the other apostles. As devout Jews they knew at once that the location was meant to emphasize the importance of what was being done. None complained of Simon being singled out for this honor; and in the rest of the New Testament he is called by his new name, while James and John remain just James and John, not Boanerges.

Who is the rock? Let's take a closer look at the key verse: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church" (Matt. 16:18). Since Simon’s new name of Peter itself means rock, the sentence could be rewritten as: "You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church." From the grammatical point of view, the phrase "this rock" must relate back to the closest noun. Peter’s profession of faith ("You are the Christ, the Son of the living God") is two verses earlier, while his name, a proper noun, is in the immediately preceding clause.

As an analogy, consider this artificial sentence: "I have a car and a truck, and it is blue." Which is blue? The truck, because that is the noun closest to the pronoun "it." This is all the more clear if the reference to the car is two sentences earlier, as the reference to Peter’s profession is two sentences earlier than the term rock.

Some of the effect of Christ’s play on words was lost when his statement was translated from the Aramaic into Greek, but that was the best that could be done in Greek. In English, like Aramaic, there is no problem with endings; so an English rendition could read: "You are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church."

59 posted on 03/23/2010 10:16:28 AM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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To: trisham
However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura (”by Scripture alone”—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide (”by faith alone”—the idea that we are justified by faith only).
 
 
Dang!!
 
I wonder WHY???



NIV Matthew 2:5
 "In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
 1.  Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
 2.  After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
 3.  The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
 4.  Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
 5.  Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
 6.  "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
 7.  Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
 8.  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 
 9.  "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
 10.  Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
 11.  Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
 

NIV Matthew 11:10
    This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
 

NIV Matthew 21:13
    "It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,'  but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "
 

NIV Matthew 26:24
    The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.
 

NIV Matthew 26:31
   Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 
 

NIV Mark 7:6-7
 6.  He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
 7.  They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
 

NIV Mark 9:11-13
 11.  And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
 12.  Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
 13.  But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."
 

NIV Mark 11:17
    And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "
 

NIV Mark 14:27
    "You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'
 

NIV Luke 1:1-4
 1.  Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled  among us,
 2.  just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
 3.  Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 
 4.  so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
 

NIV Luke 4:17-19
 17.  The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
 18.  "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
 19.  to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
 

NIV Luke 7:27
    This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
 

NIV Luke 10:26
    "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
 

NIV Luke 18:31-33
 31.  Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
 32.  He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
 33.  On the third day he will rise again."
 

NIV Luke 20:17-18
 17.  Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
 18.  Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
 

NIV Luke 21:22
    For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
 

NIV Luke 22:37
    It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
 

NIV Luke 24:44-47
 44.  He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
 45.  Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
 46.  He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
 47.  and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 

NIV John 2:17
    His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
 
NIV John 6:31
   Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "
 

NIV John 6:45
   It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.'  Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
 

NIV John 12:14-15
 14.  Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
 15.  "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
 

NIV John 12:14-16
 14.  Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
 15.  "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
 16.  At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.
 

NIV John 15:25
   But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'
 

NIV John 20:30-31
 30.  Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
 31.  But these are written that you may  believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 

NIV Acts 1:20
   "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'
 

NIV Acts 7:42
   But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
 

NIV Acts 13:29
   When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
 

NIV Acts 13:32-33
 32.  "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
 33.  he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '
 

NIV Acts 15:15-18
 15.  The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
 16.  "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
 17.  that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
 18.  that have been known for ages.
 

NIV Acts 23:5
    Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for  it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "
 

NIV Acts 24:14
   However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
    and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 
 

NIV Romans 1:17
   For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,  just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
 

NIV Romans 2:24
   As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
 

NIV Romans 3:4
    Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
 

NIV Romans 3:10-12
 10.  As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 
 11.  there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
 12.  All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
 

NIV Romans 4:17
    As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations."  He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
 

NIV Romans 4:23-24
 23.  The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
 24.  but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
 

NIV Romans 8:36
   As  it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
 

NIV Romans 9:13
   Just as  it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
 

NIV Romans 9:33
    As  it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 

NIV Romans 10:15
    And how can they preach unless they are sent? As  it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
 

NIV Romans 11:7-10
 7.  What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
 8.  as  it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
 9.  And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
 10.  May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."
 

NIV Romans 11:26-27
 26.  And so all Israel will be saved, as  it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
 27.  And this is  my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
 

NIV Romans 12:19
  Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for  it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"  says the Lord.
 

NIV Romans 14:11
   It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
 

NIV Romans 15:3-4
 3.  For even Christ did not please himself but, as  it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
 4.  For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 

NIV Romans 15:7-12
 7.  Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
 8.  For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews  on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
 9.  so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as  it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
 10.  Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
 11.  And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
 12.  And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."
 

NIV Romans 15:21
    Rather, as  it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand." 
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
    For  it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
   Therefore, as  it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
   However, as  it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
 19.  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As  it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
 20.  and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
   Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
   For  it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain."  Is it about oxen that God is concerned?
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
   Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as  it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
   These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
   In the Law  it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
   So  it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
   When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
 

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
 13.  For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
 14.  as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
 13.  it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken."  With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
 14.  because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.
 

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
   as  it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
 

NIV 2 Corinthians 9:9
 

NIV Galatians 3:10
   All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for  it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
 

NIV Galatians 3:13
   Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for  it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
 

NIV Galatians 4:22
  For  it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
 

NIV Galatians 4:27
   For  it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."
 

NIV Hebrews 10:7
   Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"
 

NIV 1 Peter 1:16
   for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
 

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
   He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
 12.   I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
 13.   I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one.  I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
 14.   I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

60 posted on 03/23/2010 11:04:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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