Posted on 11/07/2009 2:25:42 PM PST by The Ignorant Fisherman
What is a Christian?
A Christian is one whose sins are forgiven, Who possess eternal life and knows it, In whom the Holy Spirit dwells, He is accepted in and associated with a risen and glorified Christ, He believes the Bible as the sole authority and revelation from Almighty God, He has broken with the world, is dead to sin and to the law, He finds his object and his delight in the Christ who loves him and gave Himself for him, he seeks God's will for God's glory and for whose coming he waits everyday of his life.
Take the Gospel of John Challenge and see if you are truly one!
http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2009/04/take-gospel-of-john-challenge.html
(Excerpt) Read more at theignorantfishermen.com ...
That Christ was a simple man who died to save the sins of all.
That our words mean a whole lot less than our actions.
That loving our neighbor might mean killing him in order to protect the lives of others.
God is not a liberal and neither is being a Christian. Stand up for what is right and fight like the devil what is not.
Show me Political correctness in the Bible and I will eat my words
Apparently neither Catholics nor the Orthodox Churches are Christian. That would certainly have been news to the Apostles and the Fathers of the Church.
Apparently the Apostles and Nicaean-Constantipolitan Creeds are no longer the definition of Orthodox (as in right belief) Christianity.
Christianity is a belief, not knowledge. The Gnostics (declared as heretic) claimed knowledge.
That Christ was a simple man who died to save the sins of all.
Christ is God, not a simple man. Where did you pull this from?
That loving our neighbor might mean killing him in order to protect the lives of others.
Let's have some Scripture to back that up.
God is not a liberal and neither is being a Christian. Stand up for what is right and fight like the devil what is not.
Are you labelling God? Very well, let's have your definition of liberal.
Ping
A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and who follows His teachings.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm
bookmark
You’re not surprised to read that here are you, SATHG?
Sadly it doesn’t, but its good to let this type know that the definition of Christian was defined centuries ago by the Fathers.
Amen (John 14:21)
What offends you about that brief statement? (What is a Christian?) What was left out?
(ST. Matt 7:21-23, 23:29-33)
I’m sure the definition has to include folks who write blogs and then post teasers to direct traffic their way.
Sacred Tradition was left out as part of the authority of the Faith. The New Testament wasn’t even completed until AD100 and not officially declared canonical until the fourth century.
You my friend are neither a gentleman or a scholar; because you seek first to defame and not question.
Good night
If you knew you possessed eternal life you would no longer sin and thus avoid any judgment by Christ when you die. This statement usurps God’s judgment and makes one guilty of the sin of presumption
The Bible is full of examples of the ignorant who can lose Salvation
Complements of scripturecatholic
Jesus’ Teaching on Losing Salvation
Matt. 7:18 - Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.
Matt. 7:21 - all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.
Matt. 12:30-32 - Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for “therefore” is “dia toutos” which means “through this”) blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus’ grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.
Matt. 22:14 - Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.
Luke 8:13 - Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.
Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.
Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”
John 6:70-71 - Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.
John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.
John 17:12 - we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.
John 6:37 - those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.
John 6:39 - Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.
John 6:40 - everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.
John 6:44 - Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.
John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.
Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).
Rev. 3:4 - in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.
Rev. 3:5 - Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.
Rev. 3:11 - Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.
Rev. 13:10; 14:12 - we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.
Rev. 21:7 - we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.
Rev. 22:19 - we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.
***Oh so it is easier to attack me personally than ques ton your own belief.***
No, it is easier to state that you did not answer either my questions or my statements and responded with gibberish.
***You my friend are neither a gentleman or a scholar; because you seek first to defame and not question.***
If you would debate question/statement for question/statement, then you might be considered a gentleman or scholar yourself.
***Good night***
The sketch:
Second Bruce: G’day, Bruce!
First Bruce: Oh, Hello Bruce!
Third Bruce: How are you Bruce?
First Bruce: A bit crook, Bruce.
Second Bruce: Where’s Bruce?
First Bruce: He’s not ‘ere, Bruce.
Third Bruce: Blimey, it’s hot in here, Bruce.
First Bruce: Hot enough to boil a monkey’s bum!
Second Bruce: That’s a strange expression, Bruce.
First Bruce: Well Bruce, I heard the Prime Minister use it. “It’s hot enough to boil a monkey’s bum in here, your Majesty,” he said and she smiled quietly to herself.
Third Bruce: She’s a good Sheila Bruce, and not at all stuck up.
Second Bruce: Here! Here’s the boss-fellow now! - how are you bruce?
(Enter fourth Bruce with English person, Michael)
Fourth Bruce: ‘Ow are you, Bruce?
First Bruce: G’day Bruce!
Fourth Bruce: Bruce.
Second Bruce: Hello Bruce.
Fourth Bruce: Bruce.
Third Bruce: How are you, Bruce?
Fourth Bruce: G’day Bruce.
Fourth Bruce: Gentleman, I’d like to introduce man from Pommeyland who is joinin’ us this year in the philosophy department at the University of Walamaloo.
Everybruce: G’day!
Michael: Hello.
Fourth Bruce: Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce. Michael Baldwin, Bruce.
First Bruce: Is your name not Bruce?
Michael: No, it’s Michael.
Second Bruce: That’s going to cause a little confusion.
Third Bruce: Mind if we call you “Bruce” to keep it clear?
Fourth Bruce: Gentlemen, I think we better start the faculty meeting. Before we start, though, I’d like to ask the padre for a prayer.
First Bruce: Oh Lord, we beseech Thee, Amen!!
Everybruce: Amen!
Fourth Bruce: Crack tubes! (Sound of cans opening) Now I call upon Bruce to officially welcome Mr. Baldwin to the philosophy faculty.
Second Bruce: I’d like to welcome the pommey bastard to God’s own Earth, and remind him that we don’t like stuck-up sticky-beaks here.
Everybruce: Hear, hear! Well spoken, Bruce!
Fourth Bruce: Bruce here teaches classical philosophy, Bruce there teaches Hegelian philosophy, and Bruce here teaches logical positivism. And is also in charge of the sheep dip.
Third Bruce: What’s New-Bruce going to teach?
Fourth Bruce: New-Bruce will be teaching political science, Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett, and Benaud.
Second Bruce: Those are all cricketers!
Fourth Bruce: Aww, spit!
Third Bruce: Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce!
Everybruce: Australia, Australia, Australia, Australia, we love you amen!
Fourth Bruce:Bruce: Crack tube! (Sound of cans opening) Any questions?
Second Bruce: New-Bruce, are you a Poofter?
Fourth Bruce: Are you a Poofter?
Michael: No!
Fourth Bruce: No. Right, I just want to remind you of the faculty rules: Rule One!
Everybruce: No Poofters!
Fourth Bruce: Rule Two, no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way at all — if there’s anybody watching. Rule Three?
Everybruce: No Poofters!!
Fourth Bruce: Rule Four, now this term, I don’t want to catch anybody not drinking. Rule Five,
Everybruce: No Poofters!
Fourth Bruce: Rule Six, there is NO ... Rule Six. Rule Seven,
Everybruce: No Poofters!!
Fourth Bruce: Right, that concludes the readin’ of the rules, Bruce.
First Bruce: This here’s the wattle, the emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle, you can hold it in your hand.
Everybruce: Amen!
(NB: The Album versions continue with the Philosopher’s song The TV version continues below....)
First Bruce: Right, let’s get some Sheilas.
(An Aborigine bunts in with an enormous tray full of enormous steaks.)
Fourth Bruce: OK.
Second Bruce: Ah, elevenses.
Third Bruce: This should tide us over ‘til lunchtime.
Second Bruce: Reckon so, Bruce.
Wonderfully stated - Faith without works is DEAD
Not sure what you are on about with the “sketch”
But only God knows the heart of men, not you or I.
You will NEVER get me to believe in the NON SCRIPTUAL belief in the Trinity, that Christ is GOD, that God died or even than Mary is/was the mother of God. (Not saying you believe the latter)
I will not believe in the Trinity because the Scriptures (Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek) do not even mention the word or teach its principles.
There are many man-made doctrines that can be traced back to the times following the death of Christ. Tradition is tradition but eons will never make it truth.
So let us please refrain from this mindless quibble (I include myself) and reach out to one another in brotherly love instead of some scorned malice.
Scared “Man’s made up traditions” were left out?.... hmmm .. you mean like Mary’s assumption into heaven, Purgatory, praying to saints that are dead, the sacraments, telling your trespasses to unmarried men called “priest”, etc.. It would seem that the Canonizers left this out of the Bible (New Testament)when they were canonizing. as an ex Catholic I found out that the majority of catholic traditions are not in the Sacred Scriptures.. no offense.. I just choose to believe Almighty god’s Word and not Vain traditions.. (St. Mark 7, St. Matt 7:21-23, chpt.15) Not tying to start trouble just trying to make many dear individuals think it though.
Just checking some bona fides.
You will NEVER get me to believe in the NON SCRIPTUAL belief in the Trinity
Okay. That is not explicitly Scriptural. It is a declaration of the Church of Jesus Christ.
that Christ is GOD,
That is Scriptural. John 1 covers it very neatly.
that God died
Since Jesus Christ died on the Cross, how would you describe it, given that Jesus is God?
even than Mary is/was the mother of God
Given that Jesus is God, Luke 1 is pretty convincing.
So let us please refrain from this mindless quibble (I include myself) and reach out to one another in brotherly love instead of some scorned malice.
Okay. Let's see where this discussion goes.
Funny thing about those who insist upon adding works to faith for salvation, ...by doing so they enter into a state of mind which isn’t focused through faith in Christ, but through faith in works associated with Christ and make God a debtor.
By adding anything to faith alone, one voids faith alone in Christ alone and have no hope of true salvation.
The problem with polemics like your latest post, is that far too often, they ignore basic facts.
The Oldest Apostolic Writing is not included in the New Testament, yet, few would doubt the Truth of the “Didache”. These Sacraments which you so quickly discount, are referenced in the Didache as is the basis of worship which resembles the liturgy of the Catholics and Orthodox Churches.
You quickly discount the Sacraments, yet, any Reading of John 6, clearly points to the Real Presence in the Eucharist for what else did Christ institute at the Last Supper. You also quickly discount Christ’s passing of authority to the Apostles to both retain and forgive Sin.
I feel sorry for you as an “ex-Catholic” for it is clear that you never had the opportunity to actually learn your faith. But that can be remedied by a host of informed Catholics. There are also a number of Orthodox Christians who can testify to the historical faith of the Ancient Church. I urge you to listen to them, pray with them, and we’ll see you at a Sacrifice of the Mass or Divine Liturgy in the near future.
Pinging you to Post #23 and my response at post #26.
I don’t believe in the Trinity (3 separate Gods) but Jesus WAS God..... when the disciples asked him to show them the father, he said “UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS”
I see. So the Catholic position is that Christ Jesus really didn’t die for all sins, but just for some of them.
I find the Gospel message to reveal a much broader act of redemption, propitiation, and reconciliation, while justification and sanctification are where the limit is placed on only those who believe.
No, again, you resort to your favorite rhetorical spin which involves making stuff up.
Where did I say that Jesus did not die for all sins, just for some? Where did I say that? The face of the matter is I did not and you are engaging in typically dishonest debate.
Very grateful, sir.
The Oldest Apostolic Writing is not included in the New Testament, yet, few would doubt the Truth of the “Didache”. These Sacraments which you so quickly discount, are referenced in the Didache as is the basis of worship which resembles the liturgy of the Catholics and Orthodox Churches.
One of the freedoms of sola interperata is that one may include or discount anything that one wishes in order to justify one's doctrinal development.
You quickly discount the Sacraments, yet, any Reading of John 6, clearly points to the Real Presence in the Eucharist for what else did Christ institute at the Last Supper. You also quickly discount Christ’s passing of authority to the Apostles to both retain and forgive Sin.
That only pertained to the Apostles who happened to be there at the moment, according to the antiCatholics. The only power of doctrinal development belongs to whomsoever opposes the Catholic Church.
I feel sorry for you as an “ex-Catholic” for it is clear that you never had the opportunity to actually learn your faith.
We don't know that. My inlaws for instance are so incredibly unCatechized that I am ashamed to even be in the same church as them. It is the fault of the Church, not the naive individuals. Something that folks like me are doing their best to remedy. We teach the Faith, not as a rote thing, but as the living Faith of the Living God.
There are also a number of Orthodox Christians who can testify to the historical faith of the Ancient Church.
There are a couple here on the boards that are far more learned than I'll ever even hope to be.
Was. Past tense. What is Jesus now?
The Trinity is not three separate Gods. Where did you get this belief from?
Did someone just deny the Trinity?
It am all de rage.
So then why did we fight heretics like Arius again?
Which sins did Christ not redeem?
he IS God....is that better?
John 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
Because they were wrong. The Church did a rather dumb thing 600 years ago - they retreated theologically and started navel gazing. They permitted the conditions leading up to the Reformation to occur. The Orthodox have no equivalent. They did not let down their guard; they did not engage in that sort of short sighted navel gazing, ignoring the world and its developements. I have to say, in spite of my tagline (from St. Augustine), that he was and continues to be a problem not so much in himself, but in the interpretation of his writings and what they can lead to.
The Church let down its guard. Shame on it. We have the Church to blame for the Reformation because a healthy, strong and engaged Church would never have permitted it.
More in line with Christianity, sure. What about the declaration of non belief in the Trinity? Are you Christian or other?
I agree that the Church invited the Reformation because there were times when it failed to be what it needed to be. But, denial of the trinity, not even the Reformers went that far. That essentially discounts 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity.
I had a discussion with Kolokotronis once about how so many Protestant groups choose to ignore the basic Creed Statements of Christianity that define it. For 1500 years the definition of a Christian was the Apostles and Nicaean-Constantipolitan Creeds, but somewhere along the name, various Protestant groups have just tossed them out and begun to create their own which woefully miss essential theological facts.
The Reformers taught that any milkmaid or child of nine could formulate their own beliefs. The Trinity is merely another belief. Why should that be sacred to a Reformer?
That essentially discounts 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity.
Have you not heard the cacophony of their posts? We got it wrong. Everybody got it wrong until the Church of Joe and Mike opened last week in the apartments above Joe and Mike's bar in a rundown section of town.
The inanity of that is beyond belief.
That authority is given to them with the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
Only God the Holy Spirit regenerates the human spirit, not the Catholic Church, but if they insist only they have such power, then what justification is there in the incredible hypocrisy of the Catholic Church to deny a regenerated spirit to any believer by their own power without God the Holy Spirit?
I know many a believer who manifest a regenerated human spirit independent of the Roman Catholic Church, but have never met a believer who had been regenerated in human spirit independent of the work of God the Holy Spirit.
Once saved, always saved and one can never lose that salvation, but a believer can and they do fall out of fellowship with God, but are able to return into fellowship by 1stJohn 1:9, completely independent of anything said by the Catholic Church.
It is deliberate, not accidental. There is a heady attractiveness to formulating one's own beliefs for many. Especially if one is rewarded monetarily, such as the televangelists (the bulk of whom are Pentecostal). The Apostles Creed was never ratified by any ecumenical Council, only the Nicene Creed, by the way.
Sin has both a personal and a corporate nature. Thus any sin is both against the individual sinning and the community at large. Hence, Christ is giving the Apostles authority (not all believers, that cannot be construed with any reading of John 20:23) to retain someone’s sin due to its corporate nature.
The Roman Catholic Church does not deny salvation to Christians outside of it. Those Christians outside of the Roman Catholic Church, the separated brethren, merely are missing the Fullness of the Truth as taught by Jesus Christ.
True, but the Apostles Creed is accepted by Orthodox and Catholic as a true and Orthodox Statement of Faith. It just wasn’t formulated as part of a Church Council as the Nicaen-Constantipolitan.
Well, let me put it this way....I know some people who believe trinity and say that means that there are 3 distinct beings and Jesus is not God...only the SON of God, etc...other people i know who claim to be trinitarian say that all 3 (father, son, Holy ghost) are all one... if that is the definition of trinity then i am trinitarian... i have though always accepted the 1st def as the true trinitarian belief....because of the baptism...trinitarians baptize like the 3 are separate (name of father son holy ghost)....
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