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To: kosta50

***Actually, that’s not how I read the quotation or Kolo’s question. Jesus Himself was not ‘made’; the flesh was made

How do you read the quotation? Does it not say that God through his word made Jesus?***

No; the quote by Kolo from Justin Martyr states that Jesus was made flesh through the word of God. If one considers that God is the Trinity, what is the problem? The word of God? John says that Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus made himself flesh? I find no problem or question here. The mystery of the HOW will stand presumably until we stand in front of Him, certainly. If one considers that the statement points to the flesh and not Jesus, there is no controversy.


49 posted on 11/05/2009 6:56:42 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis
If one considers that God is the Trinity, what is the problem? The word of God? John says that Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus made himself flesh? I find no problem or question here

Actually, Justin Martyr says "as Jesus Christ...was made flesh through the word of God." +John says "Word became flesh." In the former, Jesus Christ is created through the word of God. In the latter, the Word takes on human nature. The Creed says he became enfleshed and became man. The Latin translation adds "made" in all instances leading to a conceptual error.

The Word did not simply cover himself with flesh to become visible. There was such a heresy that was condemned. The Word did to make his "Mini me." There was such a heresy as well and was condemned. Thus the Churhc knew form the beginning that the Word became man by taking on human nature, that he was not just a man-look-alike while being a God inside. Rather, that he was a true man and true God, two wills, two natures, unconfused in one person. In fact Incarnation is known as the hypostatic union, the union of two realities, the impossible.

Justin Martyr simply did not have that concept. In fact, probably no one did at that time.

The mystery of the HOW will stand presumably until we stand in front of Him, certainly

I don't think so. That would imply that one day we will understand God, that we will be God by nature and not by grace.

If one considers that the statement points to the flesh and not Jesus, there is no controversy

But, Jesus, is flesh! Jesus is the Word in his human nature. Not God's "Mini me," not his clone, not his creation.

Which brings me to the Catechism you posted. In 52. it states that "it was His will that men should have access tom the Father through Christ..." yet Jesus repeatedly reminds his disciples that what he does or says is not his will but the will of the Father.

55 posted on 11/06/2009 12:26:23 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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