Posted on 10/27/2009 6:00:36 AM PDT by marshmallow
For many sitting in the pews of Saint Augustine's Anglican church in north London it was a particularly special Sunday. There were three confirmations and one man received his first communion.
But amid the applause and smart outfits there was another sense of occasion, with people coming to terms with one of the biggest developments in Christendom since the Reformation.
Last week's decree from Pope Benedict, announcing the creation of a special section in the Roman Catholic church for ex-Anglican communities, has aroused strong opinions among traditionalist clergy. It has cast doubt on the authority of the archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and the future of the Anglican Communion.
And the impact of the announcement is beginning to dawn on rank and file members of the Church of England.
"I've been a member of this congregation for years and this is exciting news, it's really hopeful for us," said Rachel Graham, a parishioner at St Augustine's in Kilburn. "We appreciate that we are able to have worshipful integrity here. When this church was built there was a hope for unity with Rome. We're not here by mistake."
It was too early to make a decision about the pope's decree – which would allow Anglicans to move to the Catholic church, but keep their own liturgy and married priests – she said. The Vatican has released no further details about the decree, an apostolic constitution, but its very existence has given Graham and other parishioners plenty to think about.
"We hope we can all come together and be looked after by the bishop of Rome."
Graham, a mother of five, is not in a minority at Saint Augustine's. Before the general synod meeting in July 2008 – "when it all went wrong", she said, and the Church of England's..........
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
So, go to it ~ at the same time make sure to avoid including the folks who brought the UK's Anglicans to this state.
I think I can assure you the Baptists don't want them either.
The emphasis in this article is on the issue of women clergy, but in fact the real hang-up on accepting Anglican clergy into the Catholic Church is that a substantial proportion of Anglican clergy are gay.
I’d guess the homosexuals would stick to remaining under the Anglican umbrella. It will be very interesting to see what happens to the Africans though.
have you read the comments? One guy says that “These Christians worship a god that is a nutjob. These islands were better off before the Muslims, Christians and Jews came along.”... the UK truly is a rapidly dying society.
Very strong anti-religious sentiment in the UK, right now.
I wonder if that church is named for St. Augustine of Hippo or St. Augustine of Canterbury. The former spent a lot of energy battling a heresy which was started by a man from Britain (Pelagianism). The latter was sent by Pope Gregory the Great to convert the Anglo-Saxons to Christianity.
Wonderful article! Even more interesting, though, are the pathetically ignorant comments at the link.
I guess he'd prefer living in the Middle Ages then? I doubt it.
i think he’s referring to the glorious times when there were only Celts and Celtic gods and magick.
Lazy atheist relying on the kindness of Christians.
What this does is make it highly dangerous for the socialist minority of the Anglican church to impose it’s will of revisionism on the majority of members. Next time agenda item of “change” on the humanist’s list comes up to impose on Christianity in the West, it will hit the reality that no one has to take it anymore.
On the other hand, knowing the left, they will move into this Anglican part of the Catholic church and act as termites within the Catholic church. They will become a minority of angry victims claiming Rome is oppressing them by not being tolerant of their agenda.
There are plenty of 'Catholics' who already do that. Really doesn't seem to be bothering +BXVI
The Episcopalians and Anglicans who are converting are almost exclusively of the "high church" wing, and more specifically the religiously "high" as well as liturgically "high".
They are "more Roman than Rome" not only in liturgy but also in belief. You will find that they adhere to everything the Holy Catholic Church teaches, once they make the decision to renounce the validity of Anglican Orders and acknowledge Papal Supremacy. For a real "high churcher" those are the ONLY two issues in question.
It is far more likely that your orthodox Anglicans will strengthen Catholic orthodoxy and tradition, and at the same time they will bring the splendid language of Cranmer's Prayer Book and the heavenly music of the English Renaissance into the Church. Hopefully it will be contagious. Soon.
Far more likely than what you posit, is that a good solid infusion of high church Anglicans will act as an effective jolt of fumigant against the Catholic termites that whine about women's ordination, inclusive language, and tacky music. The new people will remind you more of pre-VCII Catholics than anything else.
Before I swam the Tiber in 2003-2004, I was a nosebleed-high Episcopalian myself, and a sixth-generation Anglican, so I know whereof I speak.
I don’t doubt that what you said. The left could infiltrate cause problems and take over like they always do.
But like someone else suggested, they would have to get through the Pope to do any real harm, so just like leftist Catholics who try to wreck the Catholic church, leftist Episcopalians and Anglicans will not get far if they try to do this.
They already have what they want -- homosexual bishops, 'unions', female priests and bishops, abortion on demand, no Magisterium, and nobody in charge (except them). And pretty vestments.
Plus the leftists are suing for and obtaining (in most cases - Virginia being a notable exception and California a possible one) the property of the orthodox believers who are leaving. It's the money and the power they're after, and the gorgeous buildings. People talk about the wealth of the Catholic Church, but they have absolutely no idea how much the Episcopal Church is worth. Just ONE example - a TEC parish in NYC has sold air rights to surrounding office buildings and they are rolling in hundreds of millions of dollars.
What I'd really like to see is for His Holiness to offer a straight trade to the Anglicans. We'll take the high churchers, they can have the happy-clappy 'reformers', the Chittisters, O'Quinns and all the rest of the crazy feminist 'sisters', the Haugen/Haas liturgists, assorted heterodox professors at Notre Dame and Georgetown, and any Liberation Theology Jesuits that are still breathing.
It's such a good deal for us, I don't think they'd take it.
“Before I swam the Tiber in 2003-2004, I was a nosebleed-high Episcopalian myself, and a sixth-generation Anglican, so I know whereof I speak.”
Amazing how different our backgrounds, how identical our Salvation. +
It's dedicated to Augustine of Canterbury. Almost any English church would be in preference to Augustine of Hippo, but I checked to make sure.
Inertia is a dreadful thing. In my case it was six generations of Anglican ancestors, and worry that my Methodist husband would not be willing to make the river crossing. I forgot that his mom was an Irish Catholic before she married his P.K. dad!
But here we are, and better late than never. Even the guys who showed up at the vineyard at the 11th hour got paid . . . .
We all get the wedding invite....
Now, if the Anglicans allowed their clergy to marry, this wouldn't be an issue </sarcasm>.
I know that's something that's been said -- notably by posters on Fr. Z's blog -- but in my experience it's not true across the board.
This is sort of Inside Baseball talk, but you have to understand that there are crypto-High Churchers and 'real' High Churchers.
The Crypto-High Churchers like the incense, the fabulous vestments, and the good music. And yeah, a number of these priests are gay because they're attracted to the theatricality of it all. There are a number of fairly high-profile parishes where this is the case . . . and sadly a number of formerly reliable 'high church' parishes have been taken over by the crypto types. There's one in particular in Manhattan that everybody knows . . . with a homosexual curate.
But the 'real' High churchers are just as 'high' in theology as they are in liturgy. The 'high' church in Atlanta is one of those. And you sort of have to be (or have been) an Episcopalian to tell the difference.
Lifelong Episcopalian here, now in training to become a Catholic. I know the difference between the different shades and gradations of Episcopalian. I think that a lot of gays have just taken shelter in the Episcopal Church because they’re almost guaranteed full acceptance and no challenges to their state.
The late rector of Our Saviour, Virginia-Highlands, must be up to about 3000 rpm in his grave. He was so ultramontane it was funny, and he was a straight arrow all the way down the line. My husband's first encounter with him was on Easter Sunday, 1978 . . . poor guy walks in an Episcopal Church for the first time and gets holy water, incense, the Rosary, and a sermon on Purgatory.
Congratulations and welcome aboard, by the way. When are you due to be received? Are you in OCIA? How bad was your TEC parish (ours was o.k. to begin with but when we got a new loony lib rector it was truly awful).
I’m so glad you and narses and ottbmare and Salvation and NYer are here.
I was kind of hoping that we could initiate a trade: Conservative Anglicans for Liberal Catholics and a heretic to be named later.
That is the most hilarious comment I’ve read all night.
“Very strong anti-religious sentiment in the UK, right now.”
Very strong anti-everything: religion, patriotism, global warming, royalty. Their culture is dead, their identity is reduced to leftist platitudes of their one remaining value, “tolerance.” The British, on whose great Empire the sun once never set, are now pathetically irrelevant. They are basically nobodies on the world scene, and like losers often do, they are crying about it.
no in the middle ages, Britain was Christian.
He might have preferred to live in the Pagan times of Roman rule when the British had no rights, and the Anglo Saxons were poor farmers living near Denmark.
Thank you! I for one am VERY glad to be here. Should have made the trip years ago. One thing I have said before on FR is that when ECUSA started falling apart we were sitting mourning beside a dead body, while all the time the True Church was alive and well and beautiful right behind us, patiently waiting . . . .
D’ah, forgot how long it was. That just makes the comment-writer even more ignorant!
Thank you. I’ll be here ‘till Thursday. Don’t forget to try the veal.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.