Posted on 10/21/2009 10:07:33 AM PDT by NYer
Three quick thoughts:U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito voiced frustration Tuesday over what he called persistent questions about the court's Roman Catholic majority.
Alito aired the topic in a speech to an Italian-American law group in Philadelphia.
"There has been so much talk lately about the number of Catholics serving on the Supreme Court," Alito said in a speech to the Justinian Society. "This is one of those questions that does not die."
Alito complained about "respectable people who have seriously raised the questions in serious publications about whether these individuals could be trusted to do their jobs."
He said he thought the Constitution settled the question long ago with its guarantee of religious freedom.
Alito, 59, the son of an Italian immigrant, is one of six justices on the nine-member court who were raised Catholic, including new Justice Sonia Sotomayor.... The Roman Catholic Church endorses positions on several high-profile legal issues, including abortion, the death penalty and gay marriage. Some commentators have argued that Catholics in the court's conservative voting bloc — Chief John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Alito — are likely to oppose abortion or otherwise apply Catholic teachings to their rulings. (AP)
Bottom line: there is no reason to accuse Catholics of being bad for America. Such a charge is always a cheap-shot which ignores the substantive arguments that Catholics bring into the debate, and the long tradition of public service that today's Catholics are proud to continue.
It's time to face our arguments, not accuse our religion.
Ping!
unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE
There is apparently a current of anti-Catholic bigotry on FR.
Maybe the “Catholics” are overrepresented, but is this is a republic or do we engage in identity politics?
Jews are less than 2% of the general population but 22% of the Supreme Court.
Protestants are genuinely UNDERREPRESENTED in the Supreme Court.
Identity politics - isn’t that something we should refrain from?
Yes a very big one here on FR and it seems it is allowed even though most of it is based on poorly misrepresented information.
Remember, they spat on Christ; why should it be any different today. Bisisho Fulton J. Sheen often commented: "There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church." The books at the link you posted attest to this truth.
Seems to be an increase in Catholic posts on FR lately.
Now maybe that’s because the Catholic church is involved in politics - and that’s fine. But it’d be disingenuous to enter the political fray, and then cry “Religious bigotry!” whenever someone challenges your views.
(And yes, I’ll hold this position consistently, viz. James Dobson, etc.)
There isn't anything "apparent" about it. IMO, the people in question are protected as well. Fortunately, they act like such whack-jobs that their postings get into the comical rnge.
“...Now maybe that’s because the Catholic church is involved in politics - and that’s fine. But it’d be disingenuous to enter the political fray, and then cry “Religious bigotry!” whenever someone challenges your views....”
Is the Catholic Church really more involved in politics or are religious, cultural, and family issues such as so called gay marriage being dragged into the political arena with increasing frequency?
And yes, there is a distinct anti-Catholic bias among many here on FR, not nearly as bad as DU, but nevertheless enough to show that KKK values are alive and well at both ends of the political spectrum.
I don’t see why Catholics shouldn’t expect the same respect from Protestants in the political arena, as we grant to protestants who are faithful with what Christ teaches.
We are all brothers and sisters. I think it’s great that the 4 justices who serve are all prolife. I think it’s horrible that Sotomayor was appointed even though she claims to be Catholic. I’d be thrilled with a prolifer, say a Pentecostal were appointed.
If your political argument rests on religious ground we have in common, I’ll stand with you. Or if your political argument rests on political ground we have in common, I’ll stand with you.
But when Catholics’ political argument rests on the infallibility of the Pope or the historical claims to political power of the Vatican, I’ll stand against it, for the reasons I stated earlier.
America is a sovereign and self-governing nation, not part of any empire - Roman, British, Islamic or otherwise - to be ruled from afar by a man our council of men who’ve declared for themselves the authority to do so. We don’t stand barefoot in the snow and we don’t bow to kings. Any elected or appointed official who does needs to be impeached.
If you’re pro-life, vote pro-life. I’ll be right there with you, not because I’m pro-pope, but because I’m pro-life. If our elected representatives, on the other hand, are following the direction of a foreign power or philisophy - whether pope, preacher, mullah, or dalai llama - that presents a danger which I’ll stand against.
This has been a persistent concern in America viz. Catholicism, more recently viz. Communism, and still more recently viz. Islam. I hope you can understand that concern, and thus understand the fundamental opposition you encounter. I’m quite happy to have your contribution when it comes from you; not so happy if you’re taking orders from a foreign power.
How ya betting?
Leni
“If your political argument rests on religious ground we have in common, I’ll stand with you.”
Have I argued otherwise? I believe that Christ is clear on the value of human life in the womb. I believe in that, simply because it is what Christ preaches. This is common ground between us, and should be the basis for collaboration between Catholics and Protestants.
“But when Catholics’ political argument rests on the infallibility of the Pope or the historical claims to political power of the Vatican, I’ll stand against it, for the reasons I stated earlier.”
Ok, couple things here. I’m not arguing that “the pope says it”, is grounds for why we ought to collaborate. I argue instead, “this is in accordance with the teachings of Christ.”
I believe in the Pope, not because of his status or his position, but because I believe he teaches in accordance with Christ himself. This is the heart of Papal Infalliability. It does not mean that the pope cannot do wrong, it simply means that in the arena of faith and morals, that his divine office is protected by Christ himself.
“America is a sovereign and self-governing nation, not part of any empire - Roman, British, Islamic or otherwise - to be ruled from afar by a man our council of men who’ve declared for themselves the authority to do so.”
First off, Catholicism is not a ‘foreign empire’, unless America is a Protestant nation. Let’s be straight here. Maryland was a Catholic colony, as was Rhode Island. America preaches that the nation will be formed without an established religion such that all may worship freely without the persecution found elsewhere. This means that while the Protestant is secure in his convictions that scripture and his own judgement are all that are necessary for salvation, so are Catholics preserved in their faith in the Vicar of Christ.
“I’m quite happy to have your contribution when it comes from you; not so happy if you’re taking orders from a foreign power.”
Well I see the body of Christ as a unit, one with each other that transcends national boundaries. I believe I have a bond with my brothers and sisters in Christ that I do not have with those who do not know of him, even if we share a nationality. There are older and more established structures to the nation state, and their loyalties are in no way in opposition to the values of the USA.
USA is not made by the nation, but rather, the nation is made by the people, for the people and of the people. People come first, not the government. If the government is opposed to the will of the people, it is the duty of the people to overthrow the tyrant. It doesn’t matter whether the tyrant is homegrown, or abroad.
Catholicism is not Islam. We do not seek to conquer America, we seek to live in peace, and to uphold the values of Christ. America is the beacon on the hill and must remain so.
I think Scalia is the greatest jurist of the second half of the 20th century.
By John Francis Maguire, 1868
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CHAPTER XXV.
The Catholic Church and the Civil War--The True Mission of the Church--The Church speaks for Herself--The 'Sisters' during the War--The Patients could not make them out--The Forgiven Insult--'What the Sister believes I believe'--The Chariot of Mercy--'Am I to forgive the Yankees?'--Prejudices conquered --'That's she! I owe my Life to her'--An emphatic Rebuke--'We want to become Catholics.'
THE Catholic Church of America, regarding war as a great calamity, and civil war--of State against State, citizen against citizen, even brother against brother--as the direst of all evils, scrupulously abstained from uttering one word that could have a tendency to inflame or exasperate the passions which others were doing their utmost to excite to uncontrollable fury. The mission of the Church was to proclaim glad tidings of peace to man, not to preach strife and hatred amongst brethren. Thus those who visited the Catholic churches of the United States from the Spring of 1861 to the Autumn of that year, would never have supposed, from anything heard within their walls, that the trumpet had sounded through the land; that armies were gathering, and camps were forming; that foundries were at full blast, forging implements of death; that artificers were hard at work, fashioning the rifle and the revolver, sharpening the sword, and pointing the bayonet; that dockyards rang with the clang of hammers, and resounded with the cries of myriads of busy men--that America was in the first throes of desperate strife. Nor, as time went on, and all the pent-up passions of years were unloosed, and a deadly war progressed with varying fortunes, and fury possessed the heart of a mighty people, could the stranger who entered a Catholic temple scarcely believe in the existence of the storm that raged without; the only indications of the tremendous conflict being the many dark robes, the sad livery of woe, worn by women and children--the mothers, wives, or orphans of those who had fallen in battle; for, save in the greater solemnity of the priest, as he raised the hearts of his congregation to the throne of God, there to sue for grace and pardon, there was nothing to imply the existence of a struggle whose gigantic proportions filled the world with amazement.
The Catholic Church was content to preach 'Christ crucified' to its own followers, as to all who came to listen. It regarded its pulpit as a sacred chair, from which it was to teach the knowledge of the truth, how man could best fulfil his duties to his Creator, his country, and his neighbour. It deemed--and the judgment of the wise and good will say it deemed rightly--that if the minister of religion became a firebrand, instead of a preacher of peace, he misunderstood his duty, and prostituted the sanctity of his office: it held, that it was a gross desecration of a temple erected to the worship of the Deity, to suffer it to resound with the language of unholy strife--with eloquent incentives to massacre and desolation. Others might act as they pleased; they might turn their churches into political assemblies, and their pulpits into party platforms--they might rage, and storm, and fulminate--they might invoke the fiercest passions of the human breast, and appeal to the lowest instincts of man's nature--they might stimulate their hearers to a wider destruction of life and property, to sadder and more terrible havoc; others might do this, as others did--but the Catholic Church of America was neither bewildered by the noise and smoke of battle, nor made savage by the scent of blood: she simply fulfilled her mission, the same as that of the Apostles--she preached the Word of God in lovingness and peace.
This was the language and spirit of the Church, as proclaimed in the Pastoral Letter emanating from the Catholic Bishops assembled in the Third Provincial Council of Cincinnati, in May 1861:--
It is not for us to enquire into the causes which have led to the present unhappy condition of affairs. This enquiry belongs more appropriately to those who are directly concerned in managing the affairs of the Republic. The spirit of the Catholic Church is eminently conservative, and while her ministers rightfully feel a deep and abiding interest in all that concerns the welfare of the country, they do not think it their province to enter into the political arena. They leave to the ministers of the human sects to discuss from their pulpits and in their ecclesiastical assemblies the exciting questions which lie at the basis of most of our present and prospective difficulties. Thus, while many of the sects have divided into hostile parties on an exciting political issue, the Catholic Church has carefully preserved her unity of spirit in the bond of peace, literally knowing no North, no South, no East, no West. Wherever Christ is to be preached and sinners to be saved, there she is found with ministrations of truth and mercy. She leaves the exciting question referred to previously where the inspired Apostle of the Gentiles left it, contenting herself, like him, with inculcating on all classes and grades of society the faithful discharge of the duties belonging to their respective states of life, knowing that they will all have to render a strict account to God for the deeds done in the flesh, that this life is short and transitory, and that eternity never ends. Beyond this point her ministers do not consider it their province to go, knowing well that they are the ministers of God, who is not a God of dissension, but of peace and love.
Had this wise and considerate line of conduct been generally followed throughout the country, we are convinced that much of the embittered feeling which now unfortunately exists, would have been obviated, and that brotherly love, the genuine offspring of true Christianity, instead of the fratricidal hatred which is opposed to its essential genius and spirit, would now bless our country, and bind together all our fellow-citizens in one harmonious brotherhood. May God, in his abounding mercy, grant that the sectarianism which divides and sows dissensions, may gradually yield to the Catholic spirit which breathes unity and love!
The startling contrast which the Catholic Church thus presented to most, indeed nearly all, of the other churches during this period of national tribulation, was not without its influence on the public mind of America. It made men think and reflect, and in numberless instances conviction came with thought and reflection. The fervid and furious 'sermons' that were listened to with flashing eyes and quickened pulses by the majority of those to whom they were addressed, excited the sorrow or disgust of not a few. A Protestant gentleman, speaking to a Catholic friend in New York, thus referred to the prevailing topics which inspired the eloquence of his Boanerges:--
'My wife urged me yesterday to accompany her to our church. I refused: she was rather angry. "Well, my dear," I said, "you may go if you please; the pew is there for you--I pay for it. But I shan't go. Whenever I have gone I have never heard but three sermons at the most--Popery, Slavery, and War--War, Slavery, and Popery! These may satisfy you--they don't me. When I go to church I wish to be made better, not worse. Now I think that a little of the Gospel, that tells us something of peace and charity, would do me good--your War, and Slavery, and Popery don't. I repeat, my dear, you may go if you please; but I'm------blessed if I do." '
If the Catholic Church could do nothing to prevent war, she could at least do much to mitigate its horrors; and accordingly she commissioned her noblest representatives--her consecrated daughters--to minister in the public hospitals, in the camp, and in the prisons--wherever wretchedness, and misery, and suffering appealed most powerfully to their Christian duty and womanly compassion.
The events of the war brought out in the most conspicuous manner the merits and usefulness of the Religious Orders, especially those of Charity and Mercy and the Holy Cross, and, spite of prejudice and bigotry, made the name of 'Sister' honoured throughout the land. Prejudice and bigotry are powerful with individuals and communities, powerful, too, in proportion to the ignorance which shrouds the mind of man. Still, these are but relatively strong, and must yield before a force superior to their's--truth. And as month followed month, and year succeeded to year, the priceless value of services having their motive in religion and their reward in the consciousness of doing good, were more thoroughly appreciated by a generous people. At their presence in an hospital, whether long established or hastily improvised, order, good management, and economy, took the place of confusion, lax administration, and reckless expenditure, if not worse. Obstacles, in many instances of a serious nature, were placed deliberately in their path; but, with tact, and temper, and firmness, these were encountered by women who had no vanity to wound, no malice to inflame, and whose only object was to relieve the sufferings of the sick and wounded in the most efficacious manner.
It is therefore not to be wondered at that difficulties and obstacles, however apparently formidable at first, vanished before the resistless influence of their sincerity and their goodness, and the quite as conclusive evidence of their usefulness. But the greater their success, the greater the strain on the resources of the principal Orders. Not only did death and sickness thin their ranks, but the war, by adding fearfully to the number of helpless orphans, added likewise to their cares and responsibilities. What with ceaseless duty in the hospitals, teaching in their schools, visiting the sick, providing for the fatherless whom every great battle flung upon their protection, administering the affairs of institutions perilled by the universal disturbance, bringing relief and consolation to the prisoner in the crowded building, or wretched camp to which the chance of war consigned the soldier on either side--the Sisters were tried to the very uttermost. Nothing but the spirit of Religion, together with their womanly compassion for the sick and the suffering, and their interest in the brave fellows who, docile children in their hands, followed them with wistful eyes as, angels of light and mercy, they brought balm to the heart of the wounded,--nothing short of the sublime motives by which these ladies were animated could have sustained them throughout four long years of ceaseless toil and never-ending anxiety.
You may have seen the feeblest bird exhibit unlooked-for courage when danger threatened its young. Maternal instinct renders it almost unrecognisable--the glittering eye, the ruffled plumage, and the bold attitude, make it so unlike the ordinary timid creature. So, gentle, shrinking, timid as the Sister might be under ordinary circumstances, let the least wrong be done to her patients--let even incompetency or neglect be manifested in an hospital under her charge; and that gentle-mannered, soft-spoken Sister would come out instantly in a new character. Many an official--proud, or insolent, or bigoted, or incompetent, or corrupt--has had to bend before the quiet determination expressed in the voice and manner of the Sister inspired by a sense of duty springing alike from humanity and religion. Throughout the country, in almost every State of the Union, are now to be seen Sisters--calm, gentle, soft-voiced women--of whose sturdy energy and resolute courage in defence of their sick charge, or in resistance of abuses, numerous instances are narrated; never by themselves, but by those who, having witnessed them, cherish them in their memory. No officer, no official, ventured to treat the Sister with disrespect, once her value was known; and it was soon made known. The impediments and embarrassments which were occasionally thrown in her way were borne with as far as they possibly might be; but when the time for action arrived, even the youngest Sister was generally equal to the emergency. As the war progressed, so did the influence of the Sisters, until at length there was scarcely a corner of the country into which a knowledge of their services did not penetrate, and there were but few homes in which their name was not mentioned with respect.
At first, the soldiers did not know what to make of them, and could not comprehend who they were, or what was their object. And when the patient learned that the Sister with the strange dress belonged to the Catholic Church--that Church of which so many vile stories had been told him from his childhood--a look of dread, even horror, might be observed in his eyes, as he instinctively recoiled from her proffered services. This aversion rarely continued long; it melted away like ice before the sun; but, unlike the ice, which the winter again brings round, this feeling never returned to the heart of the brave man whom the fortune of war placed under the care of the Sister. Once gone, it was gone for ever. How the prejudice, deep-seated and ingrained, yielded to the influence of the Sisters, may be best exemplified by a few incidents, taken at random from a vast number of a similar nature gathered in many parts of the country.
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