Lamanite bride heading south to join the brethren in the Mayan Nation.
Posted on 10/20/2009 6:50:56 AM PDT by Colofornian
Church members from Utah and abroad gathered on Friday to hear some Book of Mormon stories their teachers have never told them.
The lessons centered around Mesoamerica, including Mexico and Guatemala, as the most likely setting for Book of Mormon peoples and events at the 7th annual Book of Mormon Lands Conference at the Red Lion Hotel in Salt Lake City.
The conference drew 280 attendees — the conference’s biggest crowd ever — as a result of key speakers such as Dr. John L. Lund, Joseph Allen and Jerry L. Ainsworth, said Stephen L. Carr, senior vice president of the Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum.
Lund spoke about Joseph Smith and his contributions to the pioneer publication, Times and Seasons. It was Joseph Smith as editor of the publication who suggested the Book of Mormon events took place in Mesoamerica, Lund said.
Although critics have tried to discount Smith, claiming he never wrote about the Book of Mormon’s location in the Times and Seasons, Lund presented evidence to the contrary.
The goal of the Book of Mormon Archaelogical Forum is to provide an open forum to discuss theories such as Lund’s, Carr said.
“We are a group that promotes the understanding of the culture and the geography of the Book of Mormon,” Carr said. “We base our ideas on the fact that they took place in Mesoamerica.”
Members of the church don’t hear about the theories of the Book of Mormon’s settings in Sunday School or Institute because they are the opinions of researchers, and not endorsed by the church, Carr said.
“Most Latter-day Saints don’t have a clue what the [geographical references in the Book of Mormon] are,” said Doug Christensen, a member of the BMAF board of directors, from Twin Falls, Idaho. “We mostly focus on the stories and skip the travel and wars.”
Kirk Magleby stressed the need for church members to come to a consensus on where the Book of Mormon events took place. He called the current lack of consensus “of particular delight to Satan and to the critics of the church.”
“If we can’t agree on where [the Book of Mormon] took place, how can people take us seriously?” he said.
There are specific conditions the BMAF has outlined for a geographic region to be considered a Book of Mormon land.
For example, the region must be a “narrow neck of land surrounded by seas,” with a major river flowing from north to south. It must also have had a highly literate society and an agricultural base that was capable of supporting millions of people.
All of the requirements come from the Book of Mormon’s text and only Mesoamerica fits all the criteria, according to the organization’s Web site.
“If we can’t agree on where [the Book of Mormon] took place, how can people take us seriously?” he said.
Yup. (That's quite an uphill climb there)
From the article: Stephen L. Carr, senior vice president of the Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum...The goal of the Book of Mormon Archaelogical Forum is to provide an open forum to discuss theories... "We are a group that promotes the understanding of the culture and the geography of the Book of Mormon,” Carr said.
Well, that's an interesting personal revelation. Carr says the focus of this "archaelogical" group is...
(a) "Book of Mormon culture" -- in effect literary gleaning...
(b) Reading some historical claims by Joseph Smith in Times & Seasons -- so basic 19th century Mormon U.S. History of a very select document
(c) "Book of Mormon...geography" -- on the one hand, what would be simple, pure elementary level education in a Christian school were this the Bible...but there's no maps in the Book of Mormon, are there? So, instead, it's more of a mix between "Where's Waldo?" and "Where in the World is Carmen SanDiego?" -- only there's not only absolutely no concensus where Waldo or Carmen SanDiego is...but the church has gone on record so many times showing no consideration for MesoAmerica that Waldo or Carmen SanDiego could NOT be in Guatamala or Southern Mexico.
Simply put, I thought archaeology was primarily about having real archaelogical finds you can hold...like coinage...similar to what we have for both the Old and New Testaments...It's surprising that most Christians could easily purchase Old and New Testament archaelogy such as coinage relatively cheaply on e-Bay...
Instead...what is masquerading as "archaelogy" before BYU students -- who are being recruited to join an association majoring in...
...Book of Mormon literary skimming?
...And 19th century U.S. history of select Times & Seasons quotes?
...And mapless Book of Mormon geography reviews that wouldn't pass an elementary school level publishing standard for religious educators?
Shouldn't archaelogy forums being doing real archaelogy in real places with real finds?
um... wasn’t this written by a guy here in US of A not long ago?
Where did he live? that’s not too hard, is it?
“wasn’t this written by a guy here in US of A not long ago?”
No, the Book of Mormon was not written by Joseph Smith; he interpreted it.
Got a question for you: Whatever happened to the Mayans? No one knows. To this day, it’s a mystery. If you read the Book of Mormon, you might get a clue.
Got a question for you: Whatever happened to the Mayans? No one knows. To this day, it’s a mystery.
The Mayans are still there.
Or reach Antarctica...
There be dragons?
(Or Cureloms)
Dude!
Ya gotta see this one!
But it is, it has to be! Because if it's not we can't steal the Mayan culture and use for our BYU archeology reports!
My son married a Mayan. She was born in Guatemala.
Wow...
Take an Archeology class and bring that up. I bet they will bring in a Mayan to talk to you about it. the ancestors still roam the very lands they rules many years ago.
Antiquities theft is a crime.
The LDS keeps grabbing cultures. First it was in Northern America, and when that did not pan out they went west. Now it's all headed south.
In 50 years you guys will be telling us they landed in Antarctica and the ruins are buried under tones of ice and snow so we can't see them.
**Sarcasm On***Who are those people I ran into in the central Highlands of Guatemala?***Sarcasm Off***
THEY WERE NEPHITES!
(Or Jaredites or Lamanites or Hobbits)
They just did not know it and no one told them Jesus had come to town a few centuries earlier...
Ping
The conference drew 280 attendees — the conference’s biggest crowd ever
______________________________________________
Supposedly 13 Million members and only 280 can be persuaded to attend a conference on a basis of their religion ???
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mormonism doesnt seem as important to its members as Joey Smith said it would be...
Millions of Christians go to Israel every year...
Millions of Moslems make a pilgrimage to Mecca every year...
Only 280 mormons turn up to a conference on the bom lands ???
I think there might be a “revelation” in the future...
“Yea and it came to pass, all good mormons are to and it came to pass, go forth to the and it came to pass conference, yea and it came to pass, yearly”...D&C 100001:200002
It was Joseph Smith as editor of the publication who suggested the Book of Mormon events took place in Mesoamerica
_______________________________________
If joey smith said it it must be so...
However of 13 million mormons,...
12,998,720 dont seem to believe him...
Hey them 3 Nephites who are still around must live in the area...
Tour guides for the bom...
wasn’t this written by a guy here in US of A not long ago?
________________________________________________________
Yes, Joey Smith...
He was a “glass looker”.. a fortune teller who lived on his scams...
He came from a family of gypsy type fortune tellers..
He was lazy and did not like to work...
He thought himself above the common working man...
He thought every woman or young girl of 14 was for his pleasure...
Even if they were married to some other man..
He and some other guys made the so called “book of mormon all up...
They were hoping to make a lot of money from the sale of it...
And Joey Smith did make a fortune from his “followers”..
Some of the book was plagerized from other peoples books, and some of has whole long passages copied from the Christian Bible...
Joey Smith was a murderer, thief, convict, conman, occulist, child rapist, adulterer, abortionist, rable rouser, wife abuser, who boasted he was greater than Jesus and made up his own religion to cover his evil activities and had himself crowned king of the world...
He violated some mens Constitutional rights and put an Amerticvan town under martial law to cover up his own crimes, got arrested and put in jail, got drunk while in jail, and murdered 2 men shooting his way out....
Someone fired back and Smith got himself killed...
He had a pagan Jupiter talisman on him when he did...calling on his Masonic friends and not on God to help him...
Now days he would have been arrested for his bank scams etc but he skipped town and managed to stay away from the earthly justice...
However he never escaped God’s justice...
Multiple Choice Question for you, Saundra: We know plenty about the Mayans because...
(a) Mucho archaeological finds re: Mayans
(b) No archaeological finds but rather "Gold-plated" sourced stories about the Mayans -- gold plates that mysteriously disappeared...to this day, no one knows where they are.
(c) Some guy peering into a hat with his pet rock in front of his eyes left us all their stories
(d) A burning in the bosom occurring whenever we read stories constructed from processes (b) or (c)
Lamanite bride heading south to join the brethren in the Mayan Nation.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4HPIC_enUS349US349&q=mormon+tours+location&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Pick one.
Heck; you may even run across Noah’s Ark while tromping around!
I read it, and was CLUELESS as to the RESTORED GOSPEL® that is supposedly in there.
Why is that?
No, the Book of Mormon was not written by Joseph Smith; he interpreted it.
(Which picture is a more ACCURATE illustration on fact?)
 |
 |
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.”
David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12
Only to folks that have to believe the story that LDS, Inc. puts out.
Ever hear of the Spaniards?
Maybe we should just connect up the Co-Redemtrix and Mormon groups and let them have the ultimate cage fight to the death, I grow weary of such threads on the FR (I know, then why do you post on them?)
...and if thee fail to obey My word, that I speaketh through an Authorized Representitive of Mine; I shall smite thee and thou shalt be completely destroyed: just like Emma!
Thou art a mocker rent large.
Repent or be destroyed: just like Emma!
Are you serious? Or just being a joker?
My uncle married an ldser, does that mean they are real? /s/ (Ok, not the married part, the real part.)
And here we're told the Lds church is a "top-down" structured church...seems a revolt is going on at the grass roots..."Your Book of Mormon tales," the grassroots seem to be saying, "are not plausible. We will reconstruct it for you, lest we otherwise toss out our faith completely -- as what we've been told all these years cannot possibly be so."
And there's the rub: Whose been right all these years? The Lds "prophets" and general authorities and Book of Mormon teachers who've gone on ecclesiastical record & spoken out on the subject? Or these johnny-late-comers who realize the Book of Mormon geography just doesn't square with these leaders' accounts?
All of the requirements come from the Book of Mormon’s text and only Mesoamerica fits all the criteria, according to the organization’s Web site.
Except one - Hill Cumorah is in New York State, not mesoamerica.
(Well, ya know, tectonic plates shift over time...and leprechauns make mischief just to spite the Hobbits...and those New York leprechaun immigrants are just the worst...no assimilation into the American culture at all...they stay in their tree-stump ghettos...)
Thy quickness is appreciated thou good and faithful servant.
Morgbot Debunker!
Hill Cumorah is in New York State, not mesoamerica.
______________________________________________
Ah, but remember, ...
The book of mormon people immigrated to New York state to fight a big war...
In which many millions died...
and their bones are buried right there...
at the Hill Cumorah...
named for the one back in the old country, that same mess called mesoamerica...
The newer Hill Cumorah was that hill at which Joey Smith was directed to dig and find gold plates...
Left there by the bones of a brave warrior who fell defending the ancient.. the ancient... ah yes well...
LOL. (Certainly, those Nephite disciples could do tour duty service for at least 2 years given the commmon sacrifices Lds missionaries make)
Lurkers: If you don't understand TN's reference...here it is from the Book of Mormon, supposedly circa 34-35 A.D. -- around the death of Christ:
3 Nephi 28...starting in verse 2: all but three Nephite disciples from...
...South America/MesoAmerica/or whereever the Mormons eventually play pin the tail on the American donkey,
...told the Mormon jesus they wanted speedily out of their "ministry, wherein thou has hast called us" [Isn't that cute...these 3 34A.D. disciples speaking King James English in the Americas!]
Of course, they had good motivations -- they wanted to "speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom."
The Mormon jesus' responded by saying "Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing" (v. 3) and told them they'd live til they were 72. [And here the tradition is all but John among the Jewish disciple-apostles suffered deaths of martyrdom; while those American disciples always get ease & comfort -- guaranteed life-breath insurance policies until they EACH reached 72 -- except for the three -- and for them, a lifetime achievement award on planet earth for the lifetime of the rest of the planet!
Then the Mormon jesus turned to the other three Nephite disciples. And the Mormon jesus read their minds (v. 6) that they desired to be like the apostle John and "never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men...when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven. And ye shall never endure the pains of death....and ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh..." (vv. 7-9)
So Book of Mormon literalists believe that 3 Nephite disciples and the apostle John have been wandering the earth for over 2,000 years. For some reason, they've been demoted from "apostle" and "general authority" status (we know since Mormonism is a supposed "restoration" of the original church, that the "general authority" title must have been scrubbed by those nasty Christians from the scriptures).
So ask your Mormon neighbors and co-workers: "Do you REALLY believe 4 men have walked the earth alive for over 2,000 years?" (If they say "yes," they are TBM -- True Believing Mormons; If they say "no," ask them why they doubt the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants -- D&C outlines the same thing for the apostle John).
How are things on Hill Cumorah??
Is that little book still sleeping there?
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
(Makes one wonder if these two fellows ever met and discussed things...)
Eh ???
Dontcha know that Joey Smith found that little book written on gold plates in Reformed Egyptian ...
Ye ancient dust made him puke as he tranlated the words into Ye Olde King James English...
So he puked into his hat instead of Emma’s clean floor...
of course all the booze he was guzzling added to the need to puke...
And then there was the chewin tobacky that Emma wouldnt let him spit on the floor...
That went into his hat to...
Joey Smoth wore out several hats while he whiled away his lazy hazy days of summer translatin them there Reformed Egyptian words...
Why it got so much a sacrifice and chore he even had to get his wife, Emma, (the only one he married in front of a preacher, that one) to look things up in the abominable Christian Bible...
Hey Emma, check and see if there was a fence around that there Jerusalem. These horses keep getting out and running all over the map... There they go off to MesoAmerica...
What’s that ?...drink less booze and I wont see things...Silly woman...what would I get yoa ta write if I didnt see things?...
Boy those horses sure can jump...Well I’ll just say they were there all along...
What’s that ? ...There were no horses in America until the Spanish brought them ?... Gosh Emma yer raht smart... Hmmmmmmm..I’ll just back it up a few years ta make it more interesting...Shhh... we wont tell anyone about them Spanish...They’ll never know...
Hmmm Looks like something by Maynard Dixon! I was in Farmington NM a couple of weeks ago. Saw quite a few still dressed in the traditional clothing at the new Walmart!
Also saw my old place. It looked like a dump!
Actually,
it was neither written nor interpreted by Joey “Big liar/convicted glass-looker” Smith but by one of Cowdery’s acquaintances/uncles.
I forget the guy’s name right off the top (a little help here, friends!?), but extensive and exhaustive stylistic analysis of the bom writing style was conducted and compared to a good depth of the other fellow’s known writings and there is next to no chance that it was written by Smith or Cowardly - oops my bad - I mean Cowdery.
It is as indelibly and incontrovertible connectable to its all-too-human author as the poems of John Donne, or Samuel Taylor Coleridge are to their respective authors.
That is to say - other than the parts which were outright plagiarised (like happened often in the D & C and pogp)from the original Bible.
Colloquial phrases unique to the Palmyra area were incorporated into passages of the text - one which occurs frequently is, “is/was/were a-going” as in: “Joey Smith and Oliver Cowdery were a-going to the library to return their dog-eared copy of the book, “A View of the Hebrews”...when they spied the bloody ghost of a pirate dressed like a Spaniard...
Oh wait - it was the SON..no, no it was the father AND the son...
Dad-gummit, when there are seven different known stories of record, it’s a little tough to keep stories straight.
Gotta go consult that copy of “Feeding the Flock while Fleecing the Flock” again...or mebbe jes’ get the flock outta here before I git martyred like a lamb with wine in its belly and a smokin’ pistol in its hand...
A.A.C.
Sidney Rigdon?
Your old place??
Not even REALLY bad Pulp Fiction could come up with so darn many "and it came to pass" phrases in such a small space!
Or...
2 Nephi 3:18 And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.
Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 27 Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.
Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 31 Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together
It would thus appear that the SLC bunch are ILLEGITIMATE offspring. Religiously speaking that is. (You SLC branch members may want to hie thee to an RLDS place of worship. THEY must have the ACTUAL 'authority' to do the Temple Rituals...)
it was neither written nor interpreted by Joey “Big liar/convicted glass-looker” Smith but by one of Cowdery’s acquaintances/uncles.
____________________________________________
Solomon Spaulding ???? The Spauding Manuscript
Ethan Smith ??? A View of the Hebrews
How did these guys ever get anyone to follow them???
Then who wrote it?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.