Posted on 10/03/2009 7:01:58 AM PDT by DouglasKC
This suggestion doesn't even pass the smell test. Where in the Bible does a one time, unique command establish an abolishing of God's Feast Day observances? Hint: Nowhere!
There being a multitude of scriptures instructing God's people to observe His Feast Days "Throughout their generations.....forever", it is absolute silliness to try and explain them away as discontinued.
The Holy Days did not originate with the Book of Leviticus, nor the Levites. The Levitical system did not begin to operate until the children of Israel had been wandering the wilderness for a year [Exodus 40:17-19]. So.....conversely, when the Levitical system was abolished [Hebrews 7:11-14] it had nothing to do with the Feast Days which were put in place (Biblically prior) to them. And.....as I have stated, most likely established during the time of the Patriarchs, prior to the captivity itself.
This is about as silly as folks attempting to say the observance of the Sabbath has been discontinued when they know full well that The Lord instituted it in Eden [Genesis 2:2-3], ordained it as a permanent observance [Exodus 31:12-17].... and never un-ordained it!
Actually, that is what the entire book of Hebrews is about. Answer this question honestly, how do you celebrate these old covenant "feast days" without an animal sacrifice? Specifically, where exactly in the Bible did God give direct instructions for how to do that?
When I complete this very busy day ahead of me.....we'll take a look.
You don't sacrifice any animals....it's just that simple.
Here's why: [Hebrews 9:7-12] 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
That's because: [II Corinthians 5:21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Verified by: [I Peter 1:19] But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
And confirmed by: [Hebrew 7:11-14] 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The part of the law that was changed, of course, was the requirement for animal sacrifice that existed prior to the crucifixion, because: [Hebrews 9:22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Our sinless Savior's blood was a final and complete sacrifice......and no need for more.
Now.....does this affect the observances of God's Sabbaths and Feast Days that were ordained forever [Leviticus 23]. Yup.....it tells us we don't need to kill animals anymore as an expiation for sin in conjunction with them. Does it eliminate them? No! They were ordained forever!
Ask yourself this question: Why is the Lord going to force the Nations to come to Jerusalem (under the threat of drought and plague) to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles....as one of the very first things He does after setting up His world ruling Kingdom [Zechariah 14:16-19]? If He had already abolished this observance (as most of organized Christianity believes), wouldn't this be kind of silly?
Then it is in no way a biblical feast day according to the law of Moses. God nowhere authorized the change that you are proposing. What He did was to do away with them altogether, since they were all fulfilled in Christ. No blood no feast. It’s that simple.
What you have done is more in keeping with the way the Roman Catholic Church treats God’s commandments. They have their traditions which are completely extra biblical, and the expectation is that folks will follow those traditions on their word alone.
But Moses was told, “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2) Any unsanctioned modifications to the law such as you are proposing are a direct violation of this command.
Of course you may not even be Jewish so you could be off the hook.
[Jeremiah 7:22-23] 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
The Levitical system was put in place over a year after leaving Egypt [Exodus 40:17]. The Feast days were given to the Israelites much earlier than that. Probably to the Partiarch himself.....430 years prior. The Levitical law was the law that was added later [Galatians 3:19] because of transgressions. It was a sacrificial law in order to remind the Israelites of their sins. It involved laborious washings, rites, ceremonies and sacrifices as a reminder to them they had sinned. That's why Paul says it was added. The Law did not function as a method for expiating sin....only a reminder [Hebrews 10:3-4]. There were no promises of salvation attached to the Old Covenant....only promises of National Security and physical blessings.....but the Israelites could not keep the Law that had been given them by Moses.....so the Levitical Law was added because of their sins.
Consequently, the Holy Feast Days did not originate with the Book of Leviticus. Then were in effect long before. Passover, itself....was instituted (Biblically) before they even left Egypt...so it's quite silly to say that Passover would be part of the Levitical Law that God added more than 12 months later.
I'm sorry you are not understanding this concept. It explains much about the error of Mainstream Christianity.
I'll leave you with this: [Genesis 19:1-3] 1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit inspired "Foot Washing and Unleavened Bread" to be recorded as an observance by Lot and his family?
Worldwide Church of God, the church that refused to let my grandmother visit a doctor while she had ovary cancer. I remember later about all the wives the leader had.
Sorry, some good people went there, but the leaders were hypocrites.
I miss you Grandmother, you were taken way too early.
Then why does the author of Hebrews say, "there was a change in the law". Why doesn't he just say, "the law was eliminated" [Hebrews 7:12] and be done with it?
No my FRiend....the Law was not eliminated. It was simply changed as scripture has recorded and something that the Main stream Church will eventually understand.
That's horrible. Sorry your grandmother had such a terrible experience with that organization. This is a different organization.
Denying that these days are the property of the Lord Jesus Christ is denying scripture:
Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
Lev 23:3 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 'These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times.
Lev 23:5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD's Passover.
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
These days are certainly the property of the Lord. He repeatedly claims them as his own in scripture.
The Lord Jesus didn't just command his followers one time in scripture to observe his feast days. He does it multiple times. Check Exodus 16, Exodus 20, Exodus 12, Exodus 34, Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy 16. In each one of these chapters he instructs his followers to observe His holy days.
Concerning new covenant observance, Paul SPECIFICALLY instructs gentiles followers to observe the feasts of Jesus Christ the Lord:
1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Paul understood that the feast could be kept without sacrifices. It's Paul himself who set the example of feast keeping for new covenant followers of the Lord.
Obviously false. Biblically you have no support, evidence or justification for your position. It's why you never post any support, evidence or justification from scripture. You simply repeat that it can't be so. Yet the words of the bible clearly and consistently contradict you.
Great post. As you point out, there are hints and clues to observance of the holy days of the Lord in scripture prior to the creation of the nation of Israel.
Biblically I don't believe that the Lord ever commanded any of his instructions to be WRITTEN prior to the creation of the nation state of ancient Israel which he formed shortly after the descendants of Israel came out of Egypt.
One can presume that God taught Adam and Eve what he expected in the way of Godly worship and that this information was either passed down orally or directly instructed by the Lord to his priest and followers prior to Israel.
When the Lord created the nation of Israel, he knew that a nation needed to formally codify and write down these instructions so that they could become part of the fabric of the culture of Israel.
I've also heard some interesting speculation that the further away from Adam man became, that the less reliable our memory became and thus writing was introduced to help preserve these Godly commands.
That's fascinating! I've not heard that....but it's reasonable to assume that men began writing things down for "some" reason. Thanks for the insight.
UCG is an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_God
Grandmother was not allowed (or risk excommunication from the church) to visit a doctor. I was just a kid, mom was a member in LA, but grandmother called mom to come home to Bama to help her. She was ate up on the inside with cancer. Mom came home to help, she was so weak she couldn't even wash herself.
To hell with that bloody cult World Wide Church of God. Maybe this splinter group you mention with is a better crew, but that Armstrong church was a bloody self righteous cult that chased girls and had personal doctors for themselves while starving their masses.
I grew up not daring look at a Christmas tree because those swindlers (and they fought like dogs not to be financially examined). I never had a birthday until sweet grandmother died and light was shed on those cockroaches.
Bitter much? Yeah just a little.
Many members of UCG were once in Worldwide and some of the doctrinal beliefs are the same as the old Worldwide, but they're not run or governed the same.
Grandmother was not allowed (or risk excommunication from the church) to visit a doctor. I was just a kid, mom was a member in LA, but grandmother called mom to come home to Bama to help her. She was ate up on the inside with cancer. Mom came home to help, she was so weak she couldn't even wash herself.
Sorry to hear that. United doesn't prohibit nor discourage anyone from seeking medical attention from doctors. St. Luke himself was likely a physician. I'm not an expert on Worldwide but I belief you're correct that for a time they held the belief, like Christian Scientists, that medical issues could best be healed through prayer and that God's will was supreme.
To hell with that bloody cult World Wide Church of God. Maybe this splinter group you mention with is a better crew, but that Armstrong church was a bloody self righteous cult that chased girls and had personal doctors for themselves while starving their masses.
I've heard a lot of good and bad about Worldwide. Most of the people in United that were once in Worldwide agree that many in the ministry set themselves up as "above" the masses. A culture of superiority and power grabbing was bred among those seeking power and authority. It's sad that such carnal behavior caused pain to so many. I think God judged Worldwide by allowing it to be essentially destroyed as an organization.
I grew up not daring look at a Christmas tree because those swindlers (and they fought like dogs not to be financially examined). I never had a birthday until sweet grandmother died and light was shed on those cockroaches. Bitter much? Yeah just a little.
Again, I'm sorry for your pain. Doctrinally Worlwide was right on many issues and wrong on others. Unfortunately they seemed to focus on the physical requirements on the law but like the Pharisee's forgot the more important things:
Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Unfortunately Worldwide isn't the first and last religious organization that has been corrupted. Satan actively works in all organizations striving to pervert and darken mens' souls.
I stayed away from religion for a LONG time because of the comments of some "church ladies". My dad was a lapsed member of the church of the Nazarene. My mom died relatively young (46) when I was in my early 20's. I still remember these church ladies saying to my dad after the funeral "Well, maybe NOW you'll come to church.". They said it as if God killed my mom because my dad wasn't going to church on Sunday. Nice.
Remember that bitterness is a tool of the devil:
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
Eph 4:32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
Well....at least you surmise that some folks that came out of Armstrong's apostasy may have been decent. That's objective....but then you seem to want to cast aspersions on anything else that may have been remotely related.
To hell with that bloody cult World Wide Church of God. Maybe this splinter group you mention with is a better crew, but that Armstrong church was a bloody self righteous cult that chased girls and had personal doctors for themselves while starving their masses.
I'm glad to see you not including Douglas (maybe) as I've seen him posting here for years and have never detected anything less than honorable and decent behavior by him.
Is there something about the article he posted that you want to discuss?
No, I was never a member of Armstrong's Church.....either.
Yeah, I have seen him probable longer than you, he is an oldtimer here. No, I not including him in my rant. My family was pretty much big into Worldwide Church of God from the 60's into the 70's. I was young, but I vividly remember having to sit through 2and1/2 hour services (there was no kids church section)... You were judged on how quiet you managed to keep your kids during service I think (and I have the pinch memories to keep it vivid). We did the Feast every couple of years, lived in a tent and went to extremely long meetings. Mom once skipped out on a meeting to take us kids to a beach and got in trouble for daring miss a meeting. They used that much control. Folks were separated (dad beat mom) so mom was especially under their control (walk the line sister, or they came to your house and preached at you). Needless to say, they were as cult as cult gets in my book. When I saw the link, I remembered having to read it around the house every week. It was a mag started by WCG and I guess this group inherited it. I knew it had ties to WCG and when it was denied, I had to search to link it. This splinter group is probable different in many ways, Lord knows I sure hope so, but anything that links back to Armstrong and WCG I want nothing do with personally. It still chaffs me that the sweetest lady I even knew wasn't even given a fighting chance while upper church members had personal doctors. Is it wrong to still not forgive this church. No I rejoice that the church that never asked for apologies died a painful ugly death. If the church was sincere in asking, one would have to forgive, but they denied to the bitter end. The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance... So that men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely He is God who judges in the earth." Ps. 58:10-11 Let grace be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness... Isa. 26:10 BTW.. we hold Christmas at my house, we don't worship a tree whatsoever. We do know the reason for the season. BTW.. I didn't read the article whatsoever, don't plan on reading anything under that title again. A church IMHO would be wise to never use it again because it's history was bad fruit.
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