Posted on 09/26/2009 7:15:41 AM PDT by Utah Binger
According to a new study from Trinity College, 15% of Americans don't associate with a religious denomination.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/09/22/2009-09-22_new_study_americans_are_losing_their_religion_choosing_to_be_nones_instead_of_nu.html#ixzz0SDnQoSOr
(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...
Some of us do not need a religious group to be religious.
FYI
I agree with you. I no longer go to church....but I do think I pray more and try to do good.
Some evangelicals have given up on denominations they have formerly followed due to liberal political nonsense that has invaded the World Council of Churches (WCC) for example. Other non-denominational churches which are more conservative leaning have appeared to fill the void that many traditional liberal denominational churches created.
And you are your own person.
People constantly decry “organized religion” as if the mere fact of an activity being organized is damning. What poppycock! Any human activity involving more than one person will involve organization. People who are of like minds on certain things are free to associate in a free society for any purpose that is not criminal. Organizations can do things that are good or things that are bad, just like individuals. The superficial creis against “organized religion” not only reveal thoughtlessness, but a sweeping bigotry against something that logically is neither good nor bad insofar as it is organized.
All through college I was an agnostic, with no particular use for religion. Then I gradually discovered that Christianity is much bettter than religion. It offers emotional and intellectual stability, not because it answers all my questions, but because it allowed me to bundle together my unanswered questions in such a way that I could trust in God that some day they would be answered. The real question that should be considered by those contemplating the embracing of a worldview is not “Which religion is better?” but rather what is true?
IMO, “organized religion” is code for “Catholic Church”.
I agree with that statement, however if those folks try to convince me to give money for their religion to organize, they lose me.
I have found the most ignorant tunnel vision individuals in churches. They must need it. Somehow it is letting them down.
You sound like Oprah. Spirituality without religion is like football without referees. You personally may have rules to follow, but many just do what “feels good”. Sometimes we need to feel bad for what we have or have not done.
Wow! Ever try the predominant religion in Utah?
Has the preacher arrived?
I had a family of them living next door to me when I was a kid.
Well said.
The problem is that 1) “in your own way” is incompatible with submission to God, and that 2) you may not have a choice.
Scripture plainly says that if you are a Christian, the Lord adds you to his church. That’s not a capital “C,” rather a little “c,” also depicted in scripture as the “bride of Christ” and the “body of Christ.”
If you belong to Him, you belong to his body. I won’t take the metaphor forward with words like “paralysis” or “dead,” but you get the picture.
You’re either in or out, your choice, but sitting in the shadows and hoping the Light spills over onto you isn’t going to work.
Sometimes that American self-made spirit butts heads with the notion of an all-powerful God who’s not as impressed with us as we are with ourselves.
I am no preacher. Just a regular joe. What I said was based on personal obervations with friends and family. Without organization people tend to lose discipline. It then falls into distancing themselves from G_d.
Bingo!
And the One who “created heaven and earth and all that is in it” didn’t make truth so obscure that we can’t find it.
I suspect my problem with a certain organization is that the discipline was more than I could handle. Just seems to me that lots of folks really do need a certain amount of such. But, there are others that do not. Self discipline is the key. For instance, last night I had one too many. I'm paying for that today.
Yea, I can see your point.
Takes all the heat off of actually following up with those principles and duties too.
There's still some social pressure on politicians to say they believe in God; there's only one self-admitted atheist in Congress, if I recall correctly. I suspect a significant fraction of politicians would admit to being atheists or agnostics if they felt there were be no negative consequences come election time.
I don’t care about being “religious” either. Not one bit.
I do enjoy very much being with others who are in RELATIONSHIP with the Lord Jesus Christ and who want to come together to worship Him together in song, and in hearing His Word, and in listening to sermons that are based on His Word.
Of course faith is a personal thing. God brings salvation to individuals, not groups. He calls individuals to come unto Him, to find eternal life in HIM that starts NOW.
But the church is His Body on earth - and He works through His church, His people united in faith and new Life in Him - to accomplish great and mighty (though mostly unheralded) - deeds, including reaching those who are lost, but also helping those who are hurting.
If you know the Lord Jesus, if you have turned to Him for forgiveness and salvation and new life, you simply want to be around others who also know Him and who are seeking to further His Kingdom on this sinfilled earth.
I just saw a movie on TV called time traveller (I think). The premise of the movie was a person from the 1800’s time travelled to today because he (in his own time) was writing a thesis on why he thought that good morals did not need to be tied to “religion”. That people were basically “good” and they tried to do right because of it.
He landed in the 1980’s or 90’s, and was absolutely appalled at how people went around proclaiming to be basically good, but living in sin, that sin was no longer considered sin, and that evil was good and good was evil. He went back to his own time and rewrote his paper.
I guess the point is, we can be basically “good” people, but who is the ultimate arbitror of what is good? Self? Self interpretation of scripture? Selective following of commandments? Secular rules? There are lots of “good” folks advocating abortion, euthanasia, socialism, communism, gay marriage, etc. They are following their hearts, what they believe scripture points out to them. They selectively follow or interpret the commandments to meet their expectations.
If the measure of good is not killing others, not stealing, and not breaking secular law, then most people are good. Does that make them christian, or holy? Or does it just make them less bad?
In a generation of lone wolf Christianity, you will see all of it dead like in Europe.
I do not. I will stand alone with my own beliefs founded upon the certainty that all religious organizations are made by man.
I get you. enjoy the weekend!
I agree with you. As a religious skeptic, one summer we went on a canoe trip far into the north country. We paddled all day and in the evening we were approaching a small island. We wanted to camp on this island and slowly circled it to find a good spot. When we turned to the west, the sunset and beauty caught me off guard. It was at that single moment, filled with love and gratitude for what I had witnessed, that I acknowledged God. My teenage son felt it too. We both wept, so overwhelmed were we with emotion.
I grew up in a family unencumbered by religious doctrine. My mother witnessed the strife that can tear up a family with religious arguement. Her father and mother did not attend the same church and this caused considerable trouble - often to the point of violence. She vowed to never subject her children to such a thing. She wanted us to be able to explore our faith freely as a choice when we decided it would be important to us.
So - there I was, up north in a canoe, without the knowledge that comes with going to church, without prayer, without doctrine and still I felt God. It was a deeply personal experience.
Several times after, we have gone to church for a variety of reasons - and each time I went,I never sensed that feeling I had up north. I guess what I am trying to say is that God does not only come to those who pray to him, does not only come to those who go to church, does not only come to those who only restrict themselves to doctrine. I believe that God comes to those he chooses, for reasons that only he knows.
Humans evolved through tribal warfare, a high-speed form of evolution. Most human traits can be traced to their advantage in war. A tribe with religion usually wins in war against one without. That's why most people alive today are religious. A nation benefits from some non-religious people, but too many is detrimental. I'm not religious myself but I think it's good that most people are. I prefer leaders with faith for the health of the country. Obama's faith is dubious and he's doing long term damage to America.
Who is he?
I think a lot of folks become disillusioned by non-perfection seen in the leadership of their religious organization, moved to another and found more of the same and decided to go it alone.
(That must explain why I will fix my OWN vehicle instead of taking it to a ‘reputable’ shop for repair.)
If the leaders in MY religious organiZation never made mistakes - sins even - then how would I practice MY forgiveness?
I’m sure they’ve put up with a LOT from me over the years...
ONE TEQUILA, TWO TEQUILA, THREE TEQUILA, FLOOR.
You are very right.
There is a certain sanctimoniousness in the “ I am far too smart, independent,......strong enough,
self disciplined,fundamentalist,_____________(fill in the blank) to belong to any organzied religion....HA!
How ironic...those who are so against religion sound just as arrogant as those who identify so strongly with a religion.
You are much smarter than I am, you said ‘bye’..while I will be flamed by all those who have a direct link to God, or their Spiritual Being or Nature or the Air...kind of reminds me of me when I get upset by my church and want to run away.
I go because I want to witness with others of my “community of man” because we are “pack animals’ and live in society, for better or for worse. I want to publicly express my belief and in my puny little quiet ‘attendance’ at church state that I am part of humanity and to remind myself, because I am “not perfect yet” that just maybe I need to look at myself and the others again....and if I really want to go out on a limb, I may just try to help someone else.
I guess we now know that your spiritual views have all the depth of spectator sports.
Go Team!!!
I believe that God is real.
I know, without any doubt, that religion is man-made, and therefore highly subject to corruption.
As a religious skeptic myself, I consider the RCC, the Anglicans, the ELC, the various Orthodox faiths, and the Southern Baptist Convention to be “organized religions.” The RCC is basically the General Motors of organized religions, so I can see where your suspicions may come from.
You folks may find this of interest.
New study examines 34 million American adults with no religion
This is just a fad. It’s cool to join the herd and hate organized religion right now. A lot of the people saying this did not go to church before the fad kicked in. Also organized religion goes through unpopular and unChristian phases as well. We are in one of those phases. There is too much worldly social struggle within so many churches there is no spirit of Christ’s rejuvenation.
I think if the center holds, there will be reborn churches for the fadish ones to return to. The ones who will be lost to Christianity are the children who are raised with no church. I have seen it with my friends’ children. There is often a lot of regret and sorrow.
Yea, no Holy Spirit allowed.
Oh, wait, the Bible.....well just ignore the contradictions. The less you know the more ‘spiritual’ you will become.
“The RCC is the General Motors of organized religions”
Catholics have heard far worse and far more clever insults against the Church. But it’s obvious that you are far more intelligent than any adherent of any organized religion, along with Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.
“Religious skeptic”: is that code for atheist, secularist, or “bright”?
;^)
That comment was rude and uncalled for.
Agnostic secular humanist, as a matter of fact, which means I am too much of a coward to be an atheist. I have my moments of intelligence and lucidity, but I don’t think that makes me “bright” on a consistent basis.
You’re not a coward. And you’re not a prisoner of atheistic pride.
Seek the truth and it shall guide you to reality.
“G-d is, whether we acknowledge Him or not.”
I guess we now know that your spiritual views have all the depth of spectator sports.
Go Team!!!
by meadsjn
That comment was rude and uncalled for.
by aliquando
What is "rude and uncalled for" is the insistence that people must pay a corrupt church or church employee to speak to or worship God through an intermediary. People who lack faith in God, or lack the minimal intelligence to conduct their own personal relationship with God, have the freedom to pay such a corrupt organization, if it makes them feel better.
In this country, people have the freedom to worship, or not, as they deem appropriate, with or without a church, so long as they don't violate the rights of others in the process.
I support that freedom, and will continue to be rude to anyone who insists that such rights don't exist, or that their method of worship is superior to that of another person.
Before you get your knickers in a knot again, you can rest assured that I've already talked to God about this and He doesn't care that I don't attend any of these man-made religious organizations; He doesn't care if I do or don't read and quote Bible scriptures. He seems rather pleased with the US Constitution that He inspired our founders and framers to develop.
Never, never before in the history of mankind has such freedom existed, as we have enjoyed in the USA for the past 200+ years. Not even the Holy Bible has provided such religious freedom, or any other kind. When I want to see devinely inspired documents, I look to the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.
You and others, including some of my family, might consider all this blasphemy, and that is your choice. God will sort it all out some day, and I'm OK with that. In the meantime, God told me to tell you to take your condescending BS and stuff it.
Now here is the caveat: If your religion consists of beheading other people, or flying planes into buildings, then your religion is a violation of others' rights, and therefore should not be afforded religious protection under the 1st Amendment.
Tonight it's Rum with a very fine pina colada mix.
I forgive you my son.
Not at my Catholic Church. Growing by leaps and bounds.
I do not care either. You were the one getting on my case big boy. I was only differentiating between spirituality and religion. You took that as a bias against dis-organized religion. It was not intended as such. If you are so sensitive that your only way to defend your position is to attack maybe you need to take a break from here. I hope that you understand the difference. I did not mean to offend the independent religious people. I am not a huge fan of organized religion right now. If you have the self discipline it can be a wonderful thing. I have just seen too many fall into the trap of if it feels good then it must be ok. So relax, I will pray for both of us and you do the same.
Prayers for you.
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