Lutherans Prepare To Vote On Accepting Gay Clergy

Lutherans Concerned-North America ^ | 15 August AD 2009 | Barbara Bradley Hagerty

[lightman]

Lutherans Prepare To Vote On Accepting Gay Clergy

by Barbara Bradley Hagerty

National Public Radio, August 15, 2009

First it was the Episcopalians, now it's the Lutherans. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America — one of the largest Christian churches — is on the brink of sanctioning gay clergy members.

When more than 1,000 members of the clergy and lay people begin a weeklong meeting in Minneapolis on Monday, they will be asked to decide whether to change their policy and allow pastors in gay relationships to serve in the ministry.

What's remarkable is that this once incendiary issue has become humdrum. And humdrum with breathtaking speed, at least for the 4.6 million baptized members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

Consider the story of Bradley Schmeling, pastor at St. John's Lutheran Church in Atlanta. Early on, he told his bishop that he was gay, but that he was not in a relationship, which was OK by church rules.

"In 2004, I met Darin Easler — at church, just like your mother wants you to do," Schmeling says, laughing. "And our relationship progressed, and it became clear that this was a relationship for life, so I did go tell and the bishop."

The bishop asked Schmeling to resign. Schmeling's church reacted differently.

"They all clapped," he recalls. "And their immediate interests were: What was he like? Where's he from? I had to kind of remind them that there would be consequences for the relationship."

Consequences not just for Schmeling's job, but perhaps for St. John's as well. Soon after, the bishop filed charges against Schmeling in a church court. In February 2007, the jury said that the policy was unfair, but rules are rules, and Schmeling should be removed from the ministry. St. John's kept him on — a risky decision, because if Schmeling remained in the pulpit, the church could be kicked out of the denomination.

Schmeling's trial ignited a debate that had been smoldering for years. At the national assembly a few months after the trial, the Lutherans passed a resolution saying bishops did not have to enforce the rule barring gay ministers if they didn't want to.

No one knows how many bishops look the other way, but people on both sides believe there are at least one or two dozen churches with these "irregular" pastors.

And now, the pro-gay lobby is gaining momentum — less through bomb-throwing than just wearing the conservative opposition down.

"Most of our people are, frankly, tired of the struggle, but we don't want to give up," says the Rev. Paull Spring, who heads Lutheran Coalition for Reform, a group that opposes the ordination of clergy in openly gay relationships.

"There's nothing personal attached to this at all," he adds. "But it is a biblical concern. What does Holy Scripture teach about marriage, what does it teach about family, what does it teach about sexuality? It's very clear: There is no support within Holy Scripture for this kind of relationship."

Those wanting gay ministers disagree: They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.

Now that disagreement is being put to the test. And it looks as if the liberals have a good chance of winning.

So conservatives like Spring are already preparing to create a new church within the ELCA, with its own constitution, education system and rules for calling ministers.

"We intend to remain technically within the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, but practically we will become a de facto synod," he says.

As for Schmeling, he'll attend the assembly as an observer, because he is no longer recognized as a minister. If his side wins, he says he will apply to be readmitted to the church. And he hopes he'll move out of the spotlight as a national symbol.

"I'm kind of looking forward to just slipping back into obscurity and being a regular parish pastor," he laughs.

Of course, the 1,000-plus participants in the assembly can vote any way they want, and they could dash Schmeling's hopes. But even conservatives believe that change is inevitable — if not this year, then at the next assembly in 2011.

[lightman]

To the Prayers!

Kyrie Eleison.
Christe Eleison.
Kyrie Eleison.

[lightman]

Lutheran (ELCA) Ping!

Be sure also to read:

Pastoral Guidance Concerning Same-Sex Unions

Delight, Design and Destiny: Toward a Doxological Ethics of Sexuality

Statement by Three Dissenting Members of the ELCA Task Force on Human Sexuality

It’s Not About Homosexuality--Not Really

I think I want a Divorce

“Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust”: A Critique by Carl E. Braaten

When There Are No Biblical or Theological Grounds to Change, Don’t

WordAlone Network responds to ELCA human sexuality proposals

Lutheran CORE leaders urge rejection of ELCA task force recommendations

[lightman]

Ping.

[freemama]

This church will be deciding this week whether to follow Scriptural truth or be swept away in the PC tide.

Pray for those ministers and congregations in the ELCA who try to hold the line.

[cameraeye]

When they subject themselves to go against God, they only become the lowest cast of humanity.

[PGR88]

Revelation 3: 15-16

[right way right]

A split appears imminent.

I am praying that what will be preached in the end is "Christ Crucified".

That is what is preached at my current ELCA Lutheran Church and if they pass this atrocity before God we will split away, its already in motion.

[lightman]

Almost 3100 have signed a letter written by LutheranCORE to the Voting Members.

You can view the signers at
http://www.lutherancore.org/papers/open_letter_2009_subscribers.php5

Pray for these courageous ones; for they may soon be regarded as pariahs.

[BlessedMom92]

“Those wanting gay ministers disagree: They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.”

Those who rebel against God and His Word cannot be part of His work. Scripture’s pretty clear on that too.

[MCH]

It's really a vote on whether yet another traditional, hierarchical protestant church succumbs to the forces of PC/liberal darkness. A "gay" vote is just the most visible manifestation of a liberal secular takeover of what used to be a Christian tradition that put Christ & the Bible ahead of progressivism.

If this goes thru, it's just a little more time until sermons from the Bible are replaced with sermons prepared from Time magazine, which is what happened in the United Methodist church I used to attend.

[WorkingClassFilth]

If believing Christians do not leave the ELCA after this sham decision process (it’s already going on, foks), then they serve anti-Christ and should stop the self-delusion. Believers are called to fellowship in Churches - not apostate systems serving abominable goals.

$0.02.

[SaraJohnson]

As the spirit of anti-Christ continues to take over the church buildings and organizations, house churches are coming.

[Cronos]

he told his bishop that he was gay, but that he was not in a relationship, which was OK by church rules. "In 2004, I met Darin Easler — at church, just like your mother wants you to do," Schmeling says, laughing. "And our relationship progressed, and it became clear that this was a relationship for life, so I did go tell and the bishop."

It seems like that's the way this insidious worm progresses. First they innocuously argue for priestesses (as if nuns are in some way lesser than priests -- try telling THAT to any Mother Superior and you'll get a whack on your hand!).

Then next they say ok to non-practising g's. as priests

then next you have practising g's

Finally, you getGenie Robinson as a practising g bish who abandoned his wife and kids...

[Redleg Duke]

There will be a large number of Christian Lutherans and Congregations who will leave the ELCA.

The Biblical story of the culling of the people by how they drank water comes to mind.

The ELCA is determined to cease being a Christian Church and become a left-wing political organ.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

How can those of you remaining be so blind as to not see what has already happened. You're too late. They're already doing all these things. The policy now is to look the other way. There is no discipline. The bishops have put their stamp of approval on all the evil things that are happening.

You are being duped.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

The ELCA is determined to cease being a Christian Church and become a left-wing political organ.

That happened a long time ago. We left more than 15 years ago.

[Redleg Duke]

Been a while for my son and I as well. His Mother was recalled by her Mother to the Roman Catholic Church and apparently instructed to divest herself of all heretics.

Hence, my son and I are living happily ever after in New Hampshire, in our LCMS congregation and she is playing the martyr in Northern Virginia.

Life is good!

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I am so sorry about your marriage but it sounds like you're doing fine.

My LCMS church has given me all I wanted from a church. The adult bible study is extraordinary and the service totally traditional with the law and gospel preached each Sunday. Yesterday was a big emphasis on the Lord's Supper. It was very moving.

[freemama]

Martin Luther gave a great example of standing and fighting instead of leaving. He did not leave the Catholic church, they excommunicated him for his teaching.

There is a scism in the LCMS between confessional Lutherans and those who are being pulled into more PC type of practices. There’s no way we are leaving!

[right way right]

I’m on that list. Thanks for the prayers.

[Clemenza]

Gay Lutherans? Brings a whole new meaning to “Summer Sausage.”

[right way right]

I'm not being duped!

We have been in a battle.

The battle appears to have been lost now.

The particular church I go to will split away from the ELCA.

My particular Church has had a very vocal Pastor in fighting this.

Unfortunately the head of the snake has bit itself and it is not as immune to its venom as it seems to believe it is.

From The book of JUDE.

Jude 1

1Jude,

a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by[a] Jesus Christ:
2Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.

The sin and doom of Godless men

3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.
4For certain men whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[c] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.
9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

11Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

12These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
16These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

A call to persevere 17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.
18They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.
21Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

I don't think the placement of the book of Jude right before Revelations is a coincidence.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

May you find peace. We did and it has certainly made life more enjoyable. My sister has fought valiantly but my home church is now in the process of leaving the ELCA for the LCMC, (I think that is it).

[redgolum]

This will further the split in the ELCA. Many will leave.

What is scary is that some will bring the same seeds of what destroyed the ELCA to whatever communion they flee to. We have already seen it in my church here.

[redgolum]

There is a schism that might break open.

The real question is, what will be the trip wire?
I suspect the first will be women's ordination. When that happens, I will leave my copy of Luther's Small Catechism on the pew of the church I grew up in, and flee. No synod ever survives that first step.

But as to where I will go if that happens, I don't know.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. The Denomination has been controlled by apostate leadership ever since the formation of the ELCA. I met and briefly studied with Herbert Chilstom’s roommate from his days at Luther Seminary in St. Paul and he maintained that Herbie was a humanist back then in the 50’s. In fact, Chilstrom told this Pastor that ‘traditional’ Christian's days were numbered. Further, the seminaries are also essentially apostate and Luther Sem itself has a lesbian contingent that visualized a nude female figure as ‘Christa’ over 20 years ago. The only people not in on the joke are the pew sitting folks that don't want to know the truth and continue to foot the bills.

After this, there is no excuse for any Christian to darken the doors of that outpost of Antichrist.

[right way right]

I hope that our church does the same as yours.

These trials will lead to Gods purpose in the long run, we do know that.

It seems to me even as a man in my mid forties that that God has ramped up his process of separation of the sheep from the goats.

Because of your screen name I will go ahead and make an assumption that you are several years older than me and wiser.

Have you ever wished Christ would come at any time in your life?

I actually pray he would come everyday but when I think of the lost I realize my sin of selfishness and pride.

[right way right]

Please describe what you see.

Is it related to Divorce.

Nobody wants to leave one church and pollute another, well, at least not me.

[redgolum]

Many (though not all by any means) who flee from liberal denominations soon start wanting their new home to just be a bit like their old. For instance, many of those behind the push for women’s ordination in the LCMS started in some other denomination.

Divorce is a rather systemic problem where ever you go. My cousin’s pastor had his wife up and leave him for another man a few years ago.

[Colonel_Flagg]

“Those wanting gay ministers disagree: They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.”

They're right. Jesus came to redeem the sins of all. What He didn't do, however, was countenance active and willful sinners in leadership positions in the Church.

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;

Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake."

Titus 1:5-11

[wisconsin synod Lutheran]

Voting wont change that God has already said in his bible that homosexuality is sin .
It still will be sin no matter what the ELCA votes say.