Posted on 07/19/2009 9:35:36 AM PDT by delacoert
Q: Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?
A: Yes, Mormons believe in the reality and divinity of the trinity of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost; however, Mormons believe that the trinity is composed of three separate and distinct beings with individual bodies. As seen in Matthew 3:16-17 the Son “was baptized” and “went straightway out of the water…and he saw the Spirit…descending like a dove…And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Thus the three divine beings that constitute the trinity are separate beings, yet one in purpose.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
While the clause after the word "however" is true, the first part of this answer is a flat out lie. Mormons don't use the word "trinity" accept to dis traditional Christian theology about the Godhead.
Mormonism does not include a belief in a Trinity, in which the one God consists of three persons. To at first answer the question in the affirmative is a lie that reveals the deceptive strategy of LDS church. That strategy is to used the same words found in Christianity, but redefine them. With a proper understanding of what Mormonism really teaches, you will be able to see past those definitions into the real differences between Christianity and Mormonism.
The difference is the difference between eternal life and damnation.
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GOD |
There is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5). |
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3). |
God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15). |
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). |
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God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39). |
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10). |
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TRINITY |
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. |
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35). |
JESUS |
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23). |
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). |
Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17). |
Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15). |
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THE |
The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2) |
Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity). |
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Table is from CARM.
It’s called “arianism”.
Mormons didn’t invent it.
Mormon's aren't Christians.
Thanks
I don’t understand the point of this (other than it being flamebait.)
Mormons can believe anything they want. You can’t prove them wrong anymore than you can prove yourself right.
exactly.
I could have sworn this was a political forum.
If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."
For heaven’s sake, calm down. You seem so intent on dissing Mormons you forget that they love God, just like you. What difference does it make that they have those beliefs? They are good, law abiding people who are raising great kids and who live clean lives, why do you care so much about their dogma?
If I were you, on a Sunday, I would be worried about the many people who don’t even ACKNOWLEDGE God, much less love Him.
Thanks for the tip.
Is there also a way to filter the posts of certain people?
Which god would that be?
No, but the request for such a feature has been made.
And you swear? Blasphemy and a thousand plagues upon you.
How about this thought to help along the Freepathon:
Put up an auction for that functionality.
Say if $1000 comes in the feature will be installed.
It couldn’t hurt. I know I’m tired of scrolling past the same one trick pony stuff of some people. I’d pony up for it and I’m betting a lot of people would.
I’ll pass your idea along.
Please don't pretend to read my mind, also per the posting guidelines in the Religion forum.
You mischaracterize both my state of mind and my motivations.
You are not me.
Demon spirits also ACKNOWLEDGE God.
ttt
Having the ability to set your default startup forum would work well. So many posters seem to get confused about which forum they are seeing posts from.
That is also “on the list.” It is high on my personal wish list because even some oldtimers were astonished (and offended) seeing the Religion Forum for the first time, that conservatives could actually disagree so strongly about theology.
Religion, like politics, may not be the best subject for conversation around the dinner table -- families often make that a rule. But it seems to me that this (these) Forum(s) are all about debate. I like the thin skinned rule.
Could conservatives be bigots? God forbid!
Are antis bigots?
I just don’t believe the Mormon theology, but i notice something interesting. They are criticized for believing crazy things, like Jesus appearing in North America after resurection to give the word to the indians.
People who can see straight away that this is crazy, simultaneously believe that Mary literally popped into a cave in Mexico City, to tell Juan Diego that Mexican indians needed to be Roman Catholic.
Seems rather similar to me.
The Mormons say their prophet told them how it was. If you don't believe it then let it alone.
What I have seen of the Mormons tells me we should all be so dedicated to goodness and to God as they are to theirs.
Anybody who claims to be Christian has a lot of explaining to do when they say someone was brought back from the dead or walked on water.
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity as we have it now did not come into being until the third century. Perhaps Constantine knew what it was all about and the earlier Christians did not know what it was all about.
I always have had a hard time trying to understand how it was the The Savior prayed to himself. This whole Trinity thing is kind of whispy and ethereal anyway. Their version doesn't sound any worse than the Catholic version to me. They acknowledge all three, they just disagree about their form, big deal.
I think it is wrong to hastle good people, my experience is that it is hard to find better people than the Mormons.
Well, whatever else you can say about Mormons, anytime ive passed through Utah, it’s a wholesome place. A little too micromanagy for my taste, but clearly they are doing some things correctly.
Also Hollywood hates Mormons with a purple passion,,,food for thought.
Or any religion for that matter.
How many do you think there are?
Isn’t that a little close-minded? How else will you figure out who to get mad at and reply in kind?
Okay, what are your motivations and state of mind? Especially the former.
One
Yeah, well, too many FREEPERS have fallen into the trap of hauling out the "B" to slap on others' forehead.
I mean the word just means "intolerance" (and actually apparently was first used to describe a group of nuns in France perceived as standoffish/uppity) -- and therefore was pure perception and perhaps projection.
What's interesting then are the folks who throw out the "B" word...apparently do many of them do it? Why, they're intolerant themselves of those they perceive as "intolerant?" (Now isn't that ironic & hypocritical, eh?)
Won’t that be like making an open forum, essentially more partisan? Not much room for any kind of exchange when all people do, is talk to others that think just like them. I think that is one of the main problems we have nowadays, more and more people choosing sides, reinforcing each other by saying the same things over and over again, whether right or wrong. That’s what we currently are seeing in the MSM nowadays, in congress, religions, politics, just about everywhere. I don’t really think it’s the forum’s responsibility to filter out those peoples that others just don’t want to bother with, you should just let them ‘tough’ their way through all those they don’t want to hear from.
Then, there’s your answer to #12.
Ah, we get it.
#1 Lds publish numerous statements of theological error in a publication (the Examiner).
#2 Delacoert happens to respond to just one of them in this venue.
#3 And yet you somehow are clueless to understanding the point of it, and yet proceed to comment upon it?
Your misassumptions?
#1 That Delacoert was the one initiating this
#2 Attributing false motives to Delacoert, a form of mild slander and "heart-reading" of a stranger (do you read palms, too?)
Finally, if it's in the "Tzimisce bible" -- small "b" 'cause it doesn't resemble the real one -- that anyone who posts disagreements in FreeperLand is motivated only to bait enflamed responses, then how do you explain your posting of a disagreement? (Was that, too motivated only to bait enflamed responses, or do you always let yourself off the hook of your own applied logic?)
Mormons can believe anything they want. You can’t prove them wrong anymore than you can prove yourself right.
More into refuting yourself, eh? If Delacoert can't come to any conclusions of "wrongness" about Mormon error, why are you bothering to attempt to "enlighten" Delacoert about his supposed "error" to even post this thread? (Can you say, "inconsistent?")
Apparently, according to your own standards of philosophical relativism, Delacoert can't be "wrong" in your eyes because Delacoert can also "...believe anything... he want[s] -- and You can’t prove him wrong anymore than you can prove yourself right.
(Ain't it funny how philosophical relativists speak so absolutely authoritian-like?)
BTW, does this statement of absolutism -- that Mormons can never be proved wrong -- apply to all cultists? -- or just merely to fave cultists of yours? For example, does this "religious tolerance" of yours -- of never having proof of "wrongness" -- also apply to Muslim terrorists, too? Or Heaven's Gate cult members pre-mass suicide? Or Jonestownians?
Pretty intense response for somebody wanting to apparently exert a "calming effect" (your appeal to heaven).
You seem so intent on dissing Mormons you forget that they love God, just like you. What difference does it make that they have those beliefs? They are good, law abiding people who are raising great kids and who live clean lives, why do you care so much about their dogma? If I were you, on a Sunday, I would be worried about the many people who don’t even ACKNOWLEDGE God, much less love Him.
Well, let's see...
...without exactly using these words, you imply Delacoert is hyper-reactive today ("calm down")...
...You judge his inward motives ("intent on dissing")...
...You then further dog his motives, assuming "care" shown in truth-telling is in some way misguided...
...And then you presume to become Delacoert's personal "holy spirit" to redirect his "care...worrie[s]" elsewhere because obviously your seeming absolute priorities re: whom he should spiritually comment upon don't align with his.
And you're telling Delacoert to "calm down?"
Delacoert, you're not hyper-active, ill-motivated or misdirected, are you? (Rhetorical question only, actually -- I just wanted to restate/summarize CaliGirlGodHelpMe's subtle "dissing" of you...)
So, CaliGirlGodHelpMe, allow me to quote from the CaliGirlGodHelpMe Five Commandments...which ye may want to apply to thyself:
#1 You seem so intent on dissing Delacoert you forget that he love(s) God, just like you.
#2 What difference does it make that Delacoert has those beliefs that contradict with Mormons?
#3 Delacoert no doubt is a good, law abiding person who could be raising great kids and who live(s) a clean life
#4 Why do you care so much about Delacoert's conflicting dogma? [see #2...sounds like a CD Skip]
#5 If I were you, on a Sunday, I would be worried about the many people who don’t even ACKNOWLEDGE God, much less love Him. ['Cause we know Delacoert acknowledges God]
(If you'd actually bother to explain your outright hypocrisy, inconsistency, and two-faced standards in just numbers 1 & 5, I'd be satisfied with that)
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Yeah, I’m a terrible hypocrite. Also inconsistent. It’s the heat. :))
Having those things on the list as a freepathon fundraiser would be interesting. It’s one way to harness the energy expended on religious disagreements, basically where the phrase “axe to grind” came from. I think the religious forum’s various topics are excellent and help keep discussion civil. Basically, even though you have a tougher job to do, you do it better than the other mods because you have such straightforward guidelines. Keep up the good work.
Open threads providing the ultimate debate forum where the main rule is if you are thin-skinned, don't post. Ecclesiastic threads allowing for a more temperate discussion free from criticism; and Caucus threads, free from any opinion outside the caucus.
I am very impressed with the the end result of the process to develop these thread rules. Early on when the Caucus, Ecclesiastic and Open threads were rolled out I did my bit to test them (as did a few others). By test I mean as a test pilot does it -- see if they could be made to crash and burn. They didn't crash. They developed and strengthened.
Many thanks to the Religion Moderator and the other mods that consulted to help make them.
Regarding my motivations, in a previous thread I wrote an explanation that appears on my profile page (see Reasons Why I Post on the FR Religion Forum for my explanation). Parts of the entire thread in which that post appears are quite informative.
Regarding my state of mind, I had a pleasant day and I am happy. We left for worship services a little late this morning. Other than that I had a very nice day with my wife. Our daughters had been out of town, one in Nebraska and the other in Oklahoma and they both stopped in to be with us this afternoon.
Thank you for asking.
I will be flagging as Abuse any thread that bashes Mormons. I don’t feel that bashing people’s free choice to worship as they choose is appropriate on Free Republic.
Please don't. You are too good a Freeper to get Zotted. See the mods posts above this post.
I will be flagging as Abuse any thread that bashes Mormons. I don’t feel that bashing people’s free choice to worship as they choose is appropriate on Free Republic.
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Just as long as you flag all the threads which bash Christianity...
Mormonism was founded on the basis that Christianity was/is an abomination...
and that Christians are apostates...
Ah, that’s called bashing...
I don’t feel that bashing people’s free choice to worship as they choose is appropriate on Free Republic.
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How are ya on Islam ???
We dont hit the abuse button on the Religion Forum...
It’s the thin skinned posters who get asked to leave or if the comment is personal..
The Christian FReepers post the actual words from the book of mormon etc and the speeches of the various mormon leaders...
and then the mormons scream that WE are lying...
It’s mostly a show for the lurkers...
The mormons post Bible scriptures only in an attempt to use them against Christians or in a futile attempt to back up their phony mormon doctrine...
They claim that the Bible commands them to dead dunk people so they can get saved AFTER they die,
that one of the mormon gods had real sex with Mary in order for her to conceive Jesus,
that Jesus was married and had several wives and children,
that they must practice polygamy in order to go to their mormon heaven, etc
that the Bible teaches we were all spirit children living in the mormon heaven the prodegy of the mormon god and his many wives BEFORE we were conceived by outr earthly mothers and fathers etc
That Joey Smith didnt have 40 wives abnd at the same time they claim polygamy is in the Bible
We post this info FROM THEIR OWN MORMON WEBSITES and they go ballistic...
After all the lurkers will read the truth about the pagan, Joey Smith and his home made religion, mormonism..
Its called lying and bashing to post mormon beliefs
LOL
And yet one does see this often, especially against Mormons, but I don't normally pay attention to these threads.
Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected.
Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule.
(snip)
Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.
I ask WHY? Why did we want tearing down of religion in the first place, on FR, including mocking and ridicule? Is there something I do not understand?
Thank you for trying to help me understand this apparent tradition on FR, but I still actually do not get it. And I ask, is this tearing down and antagonism over religions an essential part of FR? Could it be a hill we don't really want to die on?
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