Posted on 07/18/2009 9:27:36 PM PDT by bronxville
“Unless you are completely literate in 1st century Aramaic, Mishnaic Hebrew, and Koine Greek, and have read the multiple versions available as well as those texts that were considered and rejected by the Council of Nicene you are relying on the works and judgment of the Catholic Church as to what the Bible says and means.”When it comes to matters of faith, I don't trust the judgment of the Catholic Church®, nor do I trust yours on such matters.
Many writings were rejected by the early Christians, all of which, at the time, were Catholic.
There were heretical works, and there were other works whose origin was not trusted.
It is not enough to say that all the component parts of the Bible existed prior to the first Bible being published.
We must also admit that translation and editing took place.
The translators were Catholics.
The editors were Catholics.
The Publisher was the Catholic Church.
Excellent point(s).
There are some fundamental misunderstandings in this position. First, nobody is able to learn the Word of God independent of the work of God the Holy Spirit directly upon the human spirit and the human soul in the believer who is in fellowship with Him. Expressed in another fashion, none of our knowledge of God is understood in our human spirit nor in our soul, our heart or mind, separate from the work of God the Holy Spirit in us, while we are in fellowship with Him.
Consider John in 1:1-5, 14:6, 14:26, 16:3
Joh 1:1-5 (1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 14:6 (6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:26 (26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 16:13 (13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 2:27 (27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Rom 8:16-17 (16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
1Co 2:10-11 (10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12-14 (12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The doctrine or LOGOS (Word) is communicated to the believer by many different mechanisms, including that of pastor-teacher. God, the Holy Spirit takes the Word and makes it understood by our human spirit, who also makes it understood as GNOSIS in our soul. While we remain in fellowship, He is free to make that GNOSIS in our soul, in our mind, now available for recall in our heart. When we remain in fellowship, as we are tested in the world, that knowledge in our heart may be applied outwardly, as EPIGNOSIS, and again by remaining in fellowship with Him, He is free to mature us and our knowledge into SOPHIA or wisdom, or how we apply the Word in our daily living in body, soul, and spirit as He has intended.
Eph 3:19 (19) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Our faith is His good work in us.
Wow! Peggy Noonan and Wonkette! Now that's an unbeatable combination!
“A recent pole found that 2/3 of youth in England are now atheists.”
Talk about a nation completely collapsing...
They might as well toss their nation’s history and culture into the trash. It’s really the only conclusion you could come to given the importance of the church in forming England.
As if history was even the biggest concern here. There’s a lot of lava to be tread by those who prefer their pints to the pews.
The Pope is the Vicar of Hell?!
Was that disgusting site you posted supposed to bother me? Sorry, if I’m taking your jollies away but it just saddens me. I’ll pray for you.
Invoking Nazi terminology is the quickest way to get on the banned list, bub.
Hey RM:
Is http://www.jesus-is-savior.com allowed on the religion forum now (looks to be a clone of http://www.jesus-is-lord.com) (See #47 and #49 on this thread)
If you’ve changed your “banned sites” list, please advise (there’s a lot of cartoons I’d love to use LOL)
Thanks,
That's a contended point. Catholics maintain that the Catholic Church was founded directly by Christ, which means it predates the New Testament.
No evidence can be produced for any great religious change "a couple hundred years" later. People point the finger at Constantine -- who wasn't even a Christian until shortly before death, and maybe wasn't a Catholic at all -- and claim that he somehow produced the "Roman Catholic Church". But his main contribution to church history was calling the Council of Nicaea. The council fathers at Nicaea were the same bishops who were persecuted under Diocletian. Practically all Christians accept the main doctrinal finding of Nicaea (that Jesus Christ was and is true God, eternally begotten of the Father, not merely an exalted angel or some other kind of creature). So where's the change?
To claim that the RCC gave the bible is a supremely arrogant assertion.
What cannot really be disputed is that the canon of Scripture was settled, in the West, by three councils and a Papal decree around the year 400. What also cannot be disputed is that the NT was preserved by Catholic and Orthodox monastic copyists.
So no, it's not "supremely arrogant" at all. At worst, it's a gloss which over-simplifies a more complex history.
Mine came from Jerusalem, Antioch, Caperneum, etc...Yours came from Africa...
Ill stick with mine...
“The Bible was created by the Roman Catholic Church...”
False statement.
You cite the Huffington Post, Wonkette and you imitate Keith Olbermann. There is nothing conservative about you and I doubt that you are even a Republican.
Very telling that you would post such garbage.
“The Catholic Church was the editor and publisher of the FIRST Bible.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes indeed, yours is a false statement.
Where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.