Lutheran (ELCA) Ping!
Veni, Sanctae Spiritus!
Posted on 06/04/2009 2:15:06 PM PDT by lightman
ELCA Congregation Grieves after Member Shot in Church 09-127-FI
CHICAGO (ELCA) -- The funeral for Dr. George Tiller will be June 6 at College Hill United Methodist Church, Wichita, Kan. Tiller was shot and killed May 31 while serving as an usher for Sunday worship at nearby Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was a member. Tiller was 67.
The funeral will begin at 10 a.m. Tiller's family requested College Hill because it offers more available seating than Reformation.
"All the different stages and symptoms of grief are happening here," said the Rev. Lowell R. Michelson, senior pastor for Reformation, a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). He said many began their "journey of healing" by gathering the evening of the shooting for a vigil with the Rev. Gerald L. Mansholt, bishop, ELCA Central States Synod, Kansas City, Kan.
This week a team of crisis intervention specialists is meeting with members of Reformation in groups and individually, Michelson said. The specialists "helped us name some of those things that we haven't been able to put a name to in our anger, sadness, confusion and disbelief." They will continue counseling the congregation through weekend worship services.
The Rev. Kristin M. Neitzel, associate pastor, is working with parish nurses and lay ministers to care for "those folks who are noticeably absent," Michelson said. They will be mobilizing all congregation members to support each other in the days ahead.
Michelson is preparing to preach the funeral sermon. He said the family selected verses from the Gospel of John, in which Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live."
Others at the funeral will reflect on Tiller's life, and Michelson said he plans to "talk about the promises of God and the hope that we have in the one who loved us first."
Tiller was one of a few doctors in the United States who provided abortions after the 21st week of pregnancy. Scott P. Roeder, 51, was arrested and charged with murder in connection with the shooting.
According to KAKE television, Wichita, the family's lawyer, Dan Monnat issued a statement: "While the funeral of Dr. George Tiller will be open to the public, Dr. Tiller's family has requested that no video or audio recording be allowed during any portion of the funeral service Saturday. The family respectfully asks that all media honor their wish to preserve the privacy of the occasion, both inside the church and in any overflow areas."
The family's lawyers issued a statement earlier at the request of Jeanne Tiller, the Tillers' four children and 10 grandchildren:
"We would like to express the family's thanks for the many messages of sympathy from our friends and from all across the nation. We also want to thank the law enforcement officers who are investigating this crime.
"Our loss is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence."
-- -- -- The full text of a statement by the Rev. Mark S. Hanson, ELCA presiding bishop, is at http://tinyurl.com/p8y69r on the ELCA Web site.
Veni, Sanctae Spiritus!
Should have already been grieving over having an unrepentant member who made a living killing babies.
They could talk about the One who love us first, and how He created life and deemed it to be precious, far more so than this man or his killer deemed it to be.
exactly
Yeah, I'm sure. This is one "tragedy" the left won't fail to promote. They'll probably be able to get Super Bowl advertising rates.
Yeah ... right ...
Others at the funeral will reflect on Tiller's life, and Michelson said he plans to "talk about the promises of God and the hope that we have in the one who loved us first."
These people are completely disconnected from the reality of Tiller's life.
Perhaps they should read from the portion of the Acts of the Apostles where the remaining Apostles held a funeral for Judas Iscariot . . . oh yeah that didn't happen.
"All the different stages and symptoms of grief are happening here," said the Rev. Lowell R. Michelson, senior pastor for Reformation, a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)
The very FIRST thing quoted from this Pastor is not a word of Scripture, nor a phrase from the liturgy, but a bunch of psychobabble from a psychologist-wannabe.
So let's throw a bit a pschobabble right back--he was definitely an enabler of his deceased parishioner's deviancy.
Wonder if he still feels this way?
http://www.mttu.com/Articles/Partial-Birth%20Abortionist%20Confesses%20He%20is%20Going%20to%20Hell.htm
I agree.
No tears will be shed for his thousands of victims.
I don’t expect you to see this funeral promoted much at all at places like DU, Kos, or Huffy.
They have been promoting this narrative that a bunch of Christians murdered a doctor in the name of Jesus from the moment the first dribbles of news came out.
If you have the uninformed find out that an usher in a church (however evil he may have been) was gunned down during Sunday morning service by a long time anarchist who held his own church at home on Saturday, it makes it hard to paint this with the hateful Christians brush that they all jumped up with right off.
They can’t admit that just because he was in a church, that doesn’t mean he was a Christian now can they? What about homosexuals in churches? They said to many embarrassing things at the beginning of this story.
They will gloss over the funeral, and refer to this obliquely, lest anyone notice the actual details.
“talk about the promises of God and the hope that we have in the one who loved us first.”
The irony of this statement is astounding.
A very perverted irony in that selection since Tiller advertised that he would "baptize" the aborted fetuses murdered children upon request.
Save a tiny bit of sympathy for the victims of the victim.
I have not seen any reports about whether Tiller is being buried or cremated, but he SHOULD NOT be buried in a consecrated cemetery.
If they weren’t people, why would this fellow offer to baptize them? If they were, why would he slice them apart?
The darkness is over the land.
Tiller made a good living by killing children and this church did nothing to stop him by preaching repentance to him. Unable to bring him to repentance, it was their Scriptural duty to exclude him from fellowship, but they chose not to.
This is an apostate church. They are certainly not following the teachings of the Bible and of the Lutheran traditions. Let them mourn Tiller. God is mourning for them and for the babies.
This is incredibly indicative of what a depraved monster Tiller was.
Also, I am uncertain of the Lutheran rules, but as far as I know the Catholic Church still follows what Aquinas wrote in "Summa Theologica" and that is that laymen can ONLY baptize in cases of "extreme urgency" (i.e. death is imminent and no priest or deacon is available). I am unaware of ANY provision baptizing the deceased.
These people are sick. They are so disgusting, I can not believe the evil that they mask as good.
Lutherans don’t consecrate cemeteries. I was one for over 28 years.
Correction: I was NOT a cemetery for over 28 years, I was a Lutheran (MoSyn) for over 28 years.
I too am uncertain of Lutheran dogma. However, from the days of the earliest Church abortion was anathamatized. I wonder if at any moment during the abortion of a late term baby the doctor heard a voice, “Suffer the little children to come unto me.”
Same rules.
Baptism in an emergency SHOULD be part of Catechetical classes; and to the great credit of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod the instructions for Baptism in an Emergecy are located on the inside rear cover of their newest Hymnal for easy and fast reference.
If memory serves me correctly Tiller was excommunicated from a Lutheran congregation of different (and more Scriptural/Lutheran confession) some time ago. But, what you say is certainly true, the church to which he belonged is apostate and does not follow the teachings of the Bible or of the church that bears the name of Martin Luther. Only the practitioners of post-modern deconstruction will argue otherwise, of whose number the “pastors” of that church are to be numbered. Any ordinary Lutheran, even one who is very young, brought up on the Holy Scriptures and Luther’s Small Catechism understands that, “Thou shalt not kill/You shall not murder,” applies to all of humanity, from unborn children to unrepentant 70-something abortionists. Luther’s simple explanation of this commandment, “We should fear and love God, so that we do no bodily harm to our neighbor, but help and befriend him in every need”, makes this clear to all but the most hardened.
The argument being made, that Dr. Tiller was helping women is post-modern sophistry. You do not help your neighbor by helping her kill another neighbor who has done nothing to harm or threaten her. Yes, Dr. Tiller’s murderer did evil, that is, committed sin, by murdering him, and has, as a consequence, put himself under the legitimate threat of the law’s retribution (this too is Biblical, for such power God does give to legitimate government, but not to any self-appointed individual). He will suffer the consequences. But, no, what Tiller practiced, the killing of innocent life - even though it has been, to our shame as a nation, legalized - is neither right nor defensible before God.
I was unaware of that, I thought Protestants did consecrate cemeteries.
Too bad he didn’t believe in the Gospel of John himself.
THE GRUESOME TRUTH ABOUT THE ABORTION HOLOCAUST & THE DEATH OF DR. TILLER [Warning:Graphic}
“It is the grimmest of ironies that one of the most savage, barbaric acts of evil in history began in one of the most modernized societies of its time, where so many markers of human progress became tools of human depravity: science that can heal, used to kill; education that can enlighten, used to rationalize away basic moral impulses; the bureaucracy that sustains modern life, used as the machinery of mass death, a ruthless, chillingly efficient system where many were responsible for the killing, but few got actual blood on their hands.”–Barack Obama April 24, 2009, Holocaust Remebernce Day, Chicago Sun Times.
With Tiller arriving at the front gate to his property, a counselor finished her plea, “You can’t go to heaven unrepentant, George; you are going to hell.”
The abortionist George Tiller instantly quipped,
“Abortion is worth going to hell for.””
That’s chilling.
The abortionist George Tiller instantly quipped,
“Abortion is worth going to hell for.””
In his book The Ten Commandments and Human Rights Walter Harrelson suggests recasting the First Commandment as You shall no more than one ultimate loyalty.
From that exchange we see what George Tiller had chosen as his ultimate loyalty; a choice for which he must now face ultimate consequences from the One who he rejected.
The Church was always against abortion. It was always a sin, but not all abortions were considered murder. The ancients were not sure when the baby receives the soul (the question of ensoulment). Thus St. Augustine asks "how can you kill what is not living?"
From early-term (first trimester) abortions, they noticed that the embryo didn't "look" very human and couldn't breathe on its own, so they assumed the soul didn't enter yet. This issue was not settled until the 17th century in the Catholic Church.
Dr. Tiller the Killer was not only aborting babies, but he was one of the few executioners who performed late-term abortions. For those who have a strong stomach, look up what that involves. For some reason the liberal America seems to have no compassion on the defenseless, but finds compassion for a cold-blooder sadist.
Should have already been grieving over having an unrepentant member who made a living killing babies.The ELCA delights in providing opportunities for grace.
"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"
St. Paul, Romans 12:1
What is the official Lutheran position on abortion?
Ok I’m going to say it and I hope everyone on DU quotes me.
I am angry and sadden that “Christians” have gone so far down the road to Hell that they would honor a monster like Tiller.
Anyone who supports abortion is evil because they are cooperating with Satan.
The blood of 40 million children are on our hands.
God stay your hand of retribution upon this nation.
Lutheranchurch. Traditional Bible believing Lutheran groups, such as the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod are strongly and actively opposed to abortions. For example, the LCMS has a national Lutherans for Life organization and most LCMS churches celebrate Life Sunday in January to bring attention to the life issues. Our local LCMS churches were the primary sponsors of the local anti-abortion counseling center for pregnant women.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the non-Christian branch of Lutheranism, takes a wishy washy opinion, essentially saying it is wrong, but acceptable. Tiller was a member of a ELCA church.
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