Posted on 04/05/2009 1:56:43 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
SALT LAKE CITY -- With Proposition 8, the show "Big Love," temples and political candidates, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been high-profile nationally in the last six months. On the eve of the Church's annual General Conference, that national attention isn't likely to go away any time soon.
Shortly after the end of October's General Conference came the General Election and reaction to the passage of California's Proposition 8. Huge protests in that state and in Utah targeted Latter-day Saints' organized, heavy participation in the gay marriage issue. This put the faith on the front page.
-SNIP
Even following a difficult campaign, former Gov. Mitt Romney's name is still surfacing as a potential Republican presidential candidate, as is the name of Utah's Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. They are two of the top five now discussed in political circles for 2012.
"In spite of what the Church is going through, or maybe partly because of it, LDS members are coming to even more prominence," Jowers said.
"I think we're only gonna get more attention, more scrutiny; and that's good and bad news," Holzapfel said.
Front page news again soon: Time magazine is planning another cover story on the Church, and Oxford University Press has announced it will publish a book on the contents of the Book of Mormon.
(Excerpt) Read more at ksl.com ...
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Ping
This is Palm Sunday, Christians all over the world are joined in rembrance of the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and the hymn closing the mormon service is "We Thank Thee O God For A Prophet", in tribute to Joseph Smith, with a montage of the present prophet accompanying the music.
Tell me again why we are supposed to call mormons "Christian"??
And the title of this thread is "More eyes focused on LDS church during general conference....
Because Latter-day Saints or "Mormons" are disciples of Jesus Christ who fulfill the Biblical description of the term Christian.
At least that is why I call myself a Christian.
According to the video archives, the following hymns were sung during the conference:
SATURDAY MORNING
"The Morning Breaks"
"Press Forward Saints"
"Israel, Israel God is Calling"
"Now Let Us Rejoice"
"Consider the Lilies"
"My Redeemer Lives"
SATURDAY AFTERNOON
"Come, Thou Glorious Day of Promise"
"Come, O Thou King of Kings"
"Let Us All Press On"
"Sing We Now at Parting"
SUNDAY MORNING
"Praise to the Lord"
"Sweet Hour of Prayer"
"You Can Make the Pathway Bright"
"Redeemer of Israel"
"We Thank Thee, O God, for Prophet"
SUNDAY AFTERNOON
"Now We'll Sing With One Accord"
"O My Father"
"Guide Us, O Thou Great Jehovah"
"God Be With You Till We Meet Again"
I do not know how the hymns are selected, but I see none that is inappropriate for Palm Sunday.
So, mormonism feels it can pick and choose just which parts of the Bible have been "translated correctly"?
Has there been a revelation or manifesto from a recent prophet invalidating the directives and statements of previous leaders, including McConkie regarding the LDS church and Christianity?
Bruce McConkie (Mormon Apostle)
"The traditions of the elders - as is also the case with the traditions of an apostate Christendom - are wholly devoid of the least scintilla of inspiration. They are, as Jesus said, 'the commandments of men'" (The Mortal Messiah, Vol.2, FOOTNOTES, Pg.412).
"What of seventies? Who are they, and how do they fit into the eternal scheme of things? That their mission and ministry is unknown among the cults of Christendom is one of the great evidences of the apostate darkness that engulfs those who call themselves by the name of Him who called seventies to stand as especial witnesses of that very name" (The Mortal Messiah, 3:99-100).
"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general. False churches, false prophets, false worship - breeding as they do a way of life that runs counter to the divine will - all these are signs of the times" (The Millennial Messiah, pg.403).
"What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? ...It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel ...It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts" (The Millennial Messiah, pp.54-55).
"As with other doctrines and ordinances, apostate substitutes of the real thing are found both among pagans and supposed Christians" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.72).
"When inquiring and scientific minds delve into the narrow and bigoted creeds of the apostate sects of Christendom it is not surprising that they rebel against those dogmas falsely set forth as the tenets of true religion" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.107).
"Christianity is the religion of the Christians. Hence, true and acceptable Christianity is found among the saints who have the fullness of the gospel, and a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.132).
"The only real superiority of the apostate sects of Christendom over their more openly pagan counterparts is the fact that the Christian sects (though rejecting the doctrines, ordinances, and powers of the gospel) have nonetheless preserved many of the ethical teachings of Christ and the apostles" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.240).
"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).
"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, pg.316).
"In large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed before the Unknown God, and to whom Paul said: "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 374).
"For instance: The creeds of apostate Christendom teach untruths about God, and the scriptures say that those who accept these creeds 'have inherited lies.' (Jer. 16:16-21.) Those who accept any of the doctrines of the apostate churches are said to 'believe a lie.' (2 Thess. 2:1-12.) The process of apostasy consists in changing 'the truth of God into a lie.'" (Mormon Doctrine pg. 440).
"Pagan tribal gods were the creation of the imaginations of apostate peoples, just as the creeds and apostate views of God which prevail in modern Christendom are the result of forsaking the truth" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 511).
"Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail ...Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints" (Mormon Doctrine, pg.513).
"The gods of Christendom, for instance, are gods who were created by men in the creeds of an apostate people. There is little profit or peace in serving them, and certainly there is no salvation available through them" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg.545).
When I was a mormon, the LDS saw Christianity as inferior to mormonism. Now, because someone, somewhere has decided to reverse course, Christians are just supposed to forget all the past invective and just accept while the LDS leaders are still claiming Christians are "apostates" and unworthy for salvation unless they become mormon.
Not happening. IMO, that attitude by the LDS was a major part of Evangelicals refusal to vote for Romney.
GF: This is Palm Sunday, Christians all over the world are joined in rembrance of the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and the hymn closing the mormon service is “We Thank Thee O God For A Prophet”, in tribute to Joseph Smith, with a montage of the present prophet accompanying the music.
LOG: By the way, I believe you are mistaken about the last hymn of the conference: it was “God Be With You Till We Meet Again.”
______________________________________________________
By the way, I believe you are mistaken about the post by Greyfoxx39
The words were “Palm Sunday” and “the hymn closing the mormon service” ...
No mention of “the last hymn of the conference”
YOU listed the last “hymn” for the Sunday morning session as “We Thank Thee, O God, for Prophet”
I believe that is what GF said...
PING to # 8
I think your statement qualifies as a non sequitur.
I did not mention Biblical translations. However, just to be clear: According to every Bible translation I have seen, most Latter-day Saints I know fit the Biblical description of Christians.
To be more specific, I call myself a Christian because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who came down from heaven and was born as a baby to the Virgin Mary.
During his mortal ministry, he worked mighty miracles, casting out devils, healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to see, and the deaf to hear. Although he was tempted in every way as we are, he was sinless.
He taught the doctrines of salvation with power and authority, perfectly fulfilling the will of his Father in Heaven.
At the culmination of his mortal life, this same Jesus Christ took upon himself the sins of the world and was crucified. Although he was dead, he arose again on the third day. He ascended into heaven and will return in like manner.
In short, Jesus Christ is my Savior and Redeemer.
Because of the faith I have in Jesus Christ, I try to behave as Christians are said to behave in Acts 11:25-30 and in 1 Peter 4:13-16.
Now, anyone who believes those things and acts accordingly is a Christian in my estimation, regardless of the church, sect, or denomination he or she may belong to (if any).
I have theological differences with other Christians; there is no denying that. But I believe that faith in Jesus Christ and a determination to do his will are far more important than the finer points of theology.
My apologies if I misinterpreted greyfoxx's meaning. Unfortunately, the word service is ambiguous in this context. If greyfoxx had written session, it would have been clear that she meant this morning's meeting and not the entire conference.
Just to be sure that no one got the wrong impression, I thought it was a good idea to list all of the hymns sung at the conference. As I said before, none of them appears inappropriate for Palm Sunday (or any other Sunday, for that matter).
BTW, "We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet" does not refer specifically to Joseph Smith or any other prophet. It is a song of thanksgiving for God's blessings, including the gospel and continuing revelation.
The word Christian appears just three places in most translations of the Bible I have seen: Acts 11, Acts 26, and 1 Peter 4. One can learn much about the beliefs and practices of early Christians from reading those chapters.
It is just not possible to follow the teachings of Joe Smith and in anyway shape or form be a follower of Christ.
Well, I disagree with you. It is through the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith that I have come to know Jesus Christ.
One can not claim to follow the teachings of Jesus at the same time tell me that the teachings of Jesus are suspect and only can be interpreted through JS and his minions.
I agree, one cannot. However, I know of no Latter-day Saints who would say that the teachings of Jesus are suspect.
I do not disagree with any of the teachings of Jesus. I do disagree with some of the interpretations of those teachings that have been proposed. (Of course, Christians have disagreed among themselves for centuries.)
Even more, I disagree with many of the post- and extra-Biblical doctrines that have grown up, especially the later creeds.
I suspect we will simply have to agree to disagree about Joseph Smith and Mormonism.
One more thing before I retire for the night: Anyone who wants to know what "Mormons" think of Jesus Christ would be well advised to view Elder Holland's talk from the Sunday morning session.
I see the PR department is open late tonight...
LOL
BTW, “We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet” does not refer specifically to Joseph Smith or any other prophet. It is a song of thanksgiving for God’s blessings, including the gospel and continuing revelation.
Unlike “Praise to the Man” which is about JS.
31243, Hymns, Praise to the Man, no. 27
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
[Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872
Yeppers...
And that ever popular hit...
Hail to Brigham Young
Hail to Brigham Young, Hail to Brigham Young,
Praise him, every tongue and sing
god bless our prophet, priest and king,
Our leader, Brigham Young.
The Mountain Warbler
(mormon song book)
Because Latter-day Saints or “Mormons” are disciples of Jesus Christ who fulfill the Biblical description of the term Christian.
Then please show me, from the BIBLE since you say “Biblical description” where we find 16 yr old priests, 12 year old deacons (who should be he husband of one wife - 1 Tim 3:12), and 14 year old teachers.
Please show me where the priesthood of Aaron (Levitical) is given to ANYONE who is not a descendant of Aaron.
Show me where anyone OTHER than Jesus is called a priest after the “order of Melchizedek”.
Please show me where the atonement took place in the Garden, not the cross (Jesus never said “take up your garden and follow me”).
Show me where it talks about the Celestial Kingdom, becoming Gods, Kolob, High Priests (other than Christ) in the NT.
Please show me where Temple rituals, or sacred garments (of the LDS type) are BIBLICAL.
The LDS are disciples of a false Christ, and are FAR, FAR removed from Biblical Christianity.
However, I CAN show you where your church’s founders and early leaders taught that Jesus was a polygamist, a sinner, that some sins are NOT covered by the blood of Christ and that Joseph Smith taught that he was greater than Jesus.
god bless our prophet, priest and king,
Which ONE??
There are DOZENS of them; ALL claiming to be the TRUE church!
I think, will just a little checking, that the 'christ' they are 'disciples' of is a FALSE one - one that the BIBLE describes very plainly.
I KNOW that's what was TYPED!
Ok, if a person is doing all those things listed; are there any OTHER things that they might do that would DISQUALIFY them for the term christian?
Do you agree or disagree with the many post- and extra-Book_of_Mormon doctrines that have grown up to swell the pages of the Standard Works?
From Wikipedia
"We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet" is a hymn of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). It has been sung at every general conference of the LDS Church since it was published in 1863.
The text of the hymn was written sometime between 1860 and 1863 by William Fowler, an English convert to Mormonism. Joseph F. Smith reported that he was present at the first church worship service in England where Fowler brought the song to be sung. The song was first published in the LDS Church's 1863 hymnal, and has been included in every LDS hymnal published since. The music was written by Caroline Elizabeth Sarah Norton.
"We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet" has been described as "exclusively a Latter-day Saint hymn; a Mormon heartthrob; a song of the Restoration".[1] The name of the hymn is often used as the title of lessons in church curriculum[2] or as the title of church sermons[3] and inspirational messages.[4]
The first verse of the song acknowledges the Latter-day Saints' gratitude to God for the President of the Church, who is revered as a modern prophet. Subsequent verses thank God for the care and protection he provides to the members of the church.
Please!
Logo described the MILK of Mormonism, and you want to taint the testimoney with MEAT?
—MormonDude(Shame!)
Good morning Elsie...
“I KNOW that’s what was TYPED!”
You too ????
Well that’s us 2...
And GF...
Are we all wrong ?????
GF...
Did you mean what you typed ???
:)
However, back to the initial post, this can NOT, in any way be described as a Palm Sunday service. One mention by one speaker does not qualify.
No, “service” was fine...
That’s not what I’m talking about...
I understood you to mean that one session/service...
The word conference was introduced by Log...
And thanks to Log we have the list of songs and verification that you were right...
(Eventhough even MormonDude knew ya was all the time)
this can NOT, in any way be described as a Palm Sunday service
_____________________________________________
Well, the rewrite team havent got their instructions from the “god” who dwells in the penthouse in Temple Square...
Monson is busy begging him to reconsider what he had the speakers to say that morning...
Changes are on the way...
Someone posted this on another site...
They likened it to a video of the singing etc during the service/session...
Enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va3Z5cJKKE0
Sorry...
# 32 was to you...
What's interesting here is that Logophile -- or any Mormon -- can't show any of these things from the Book of Mormon either. The Book of Mormon is silent about all of this -- and it's suppose to be according to Mormon "Scripture" -- the fulness of the everlasting gospel." (Mormon Doctrine & Covenants repeatedly references the BoM as such)
So the Bible's silent on these things. So is the Book of Mormon. Imagine you're starting a religion that's foundationally different. Only the founder forgets to put what's foundationally different into the foundation!!!
Because Latter-day Saints or "Mormons" are disciples of Jesus Christ who fulfill the Biblical description of the term Christian.At least that is why I call myself a Christian. [logophile]
Well, here's a parallel thread to run thru this: Imagine a Mormon asking, "Tell me again why we are supposed to called fundamentalist Mormons 'Mormon?'"
And then I'm sure we could hear from the fLDS crowd, "Because fundamentalist Latter-day Saints or "Mormons" are disciples of Jesus Christ who fulfill the Mormon description of the term Mormon. At least that is why I call myself a Mormon."
I do not disagree with any of the teachings of Jesus. I do disagree with some of the interpretations of those teachings that have been proposed. (Of course, Christians have disagreed among themselves for centuries.) [Logophile]
And then, just to "clarify" when LDS & fLDS might "disagree" about what it means to be "Mormon" -- I could imagine hearing the fLDS say to the LDS: I do not disagree with any of the teachings of Joseph Smith. I do disagree with some of the interpretations of those teachings that have been proposed. [For example, changing the clear polygamous teachings in D&C 132 to simply describing marriage in another sphere] (Of course, Mormons have disagreed among themselves for centuries...I mean many of the "First Witnesses" that the Book of Mormon editors boasted about apostatized from the church)
You say you do not know of any ldsers that say teachings of Jesus are suspect. Evedently you have not read the posts on FR recently. Questions abound about the teachings of Jesus because they contradict JS. Who as we know had said he was the final authority.
So the Bible’s silent on these things. So is the Book of Mormon. Imagine you’re starting a religion that’s foundationally different. Only the founder forgets to put what’s foundationally different into the foundation!!!
Actually, many of those break-off groups consider Joseph to be the "pure" "prophet" and the church under Brigham to have broken away.
The MO-based Reorgs, for example, now rebranded Church of Christ, didn't embrace Brigham, temples, temple rituals, baptism for the dead, etc. They don't like to call themselves "Mormons."
Other break-off groups that are largely polygamist bent toss in Brigham as "pure" since he embraced "the principle." So they esteem most of the 19th century LDS "prophets."
I was thinking of the Rigdonites/William Law group, David Whitmer, and those breakoffs.
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