Posted on 03/28/2009 11:14:41 AM PDT by Chris DeWeese
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
This used to be the most popular scripture in the entire world of Christianity. I can remember watching football games on TV and seeing men in the freezing cold with no shirts on holding up a sign that said, simply, John 3:16.
When I was a kid, I had no clue what that meant. I hadn’t a clue about the numbering of the Bible or even an inkling of the gravity of that verse uttered by the Son of God 1900 some odd years ago. Now that I am a little more educated, a little more mature, and a whole lot more faithful, I see that verse as a summation of a whole lot of the Bible and quite probably the most important verse in the whole book – much like those frozen football fans of days gone by.
But as we all know, just looking at one lonely verse can lead to error. So let’s take a look at the next verse:
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(Joh 3:17)
God sent the Son into the world. This deserves some meditation. Especially in light of what the vast majority of Christianity teaches about who Jesus was/is versus what the WORD tells us of Christ. Jesus, Yeshua of Nazareth, had dwelt in heaven with the Father and was sent into this world. I think it is very, very important to meditate on that. Jesus was sent. The Son was sent. This means that someone else did the sending. Who did the sending? The Father....
(Excerpt) Read more at firstcenturychristianity.net ...
Since Passover is soon, I found this topic to be timely. Christ, our Passover, lives!
ping
By Jesus's Death and Resurrection, we are marked with the 'blood of the Lamb', and are protected from that darkness, if we choose to accept Him.
Sorry about the weather.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach AdonaiDeep subject.
In order for a covenant to be made a
blood sacrifice was needed as with Abraham.I'm not as dogmatic as many organizations are.
Yah'shua says the Shema from Deut 6:4 quoted in Mark. 12:29
Hear, O Israel! YHvH is our Elohim, YHvH is one!
Yah'shua also says that I and the Father are one in John 10:30
His name is called Yah'shua => YHvH is my salvation.
He is called Emmanuel => G-d among us.
I believe in one G-d.
Not three g-ds.
Not three persons.
One G-d who has chosen to present Himself in three ways.
The Spirit of Elohim is seen in Genesis 1:2.
There are seven words in Genesis 1:1
the fourth word is alaph-tav ( alpha-Omega)
It appears in the servant lamp position in a menorah.
For a mere human, the terms Father, Son and Spirit
are used for our understanding.How do we understand YHvH who created this
time-space continuum which He has created
and permits us to inhabit and live
Ditto. I think freedom is important here rather than an all encompassing, take it or leave it doctrine. I think when we all finally find out all the truth, we will all be surprised.
For a mere human, the terms Father, Son and Spirit are used for our understanding.
How do we understand YHvH who created this time-space continuum which He has created and permits us to inhabit and live
I agree. I don't think we can comprehend it.
I agree. I don't think we can comprehend it.
The temerity of some organizations to believe that
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
they have the right to define the creator of the universe.
I stand in awe of Him who provides so many metaphors in each Feast I stand in wonder of YHvH who in these last days provides even those The astronomers and astrologers of Constantine worked very hard If they have eyes to see and ears to hear.I thank the L-rd and Praise his Holy Name
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
for providing us with His Feast days for us to remember and Praise Him.
for our understanding and wonder.
who were blinded by the folks at Nicea the celebration of Pesach to occur
on the Wednesday evening before the Constantine defined day of Easter.
for this sequence never to occur. Sometimes I wonder if the year 2000
as a leap year reset the calendar for this to occur as a sign to those
who were blinded.
Not three g-ds.
Not three persons.
One G-d who has chosen to present Himself in three ways.
This is the statement a modalist would make.
Modalism is a heresy that has existed since the earliest days of the Church. It is popular today among Oneness Pentecostals, and, apparently, some messianic groups. Some folks believe TD Jakes is a modalist.
This is the statement a modalist would make.
Modalism is a heresy that has existed since the earliest days of the Church. It is popular today among Oneness Pentecostals, and, apparently, some messianic groups. Some folks believe TD Jakes is a modalist.
The Roman church ? The Roman church begun by the Pagan, Constantine. Heresy as defined by whom ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
St. Constantine was a Catholic at the time of Nicea. He accepted Christ circa AD 313.
Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church.
That name is never mentioned in the scriptures and I cannot reconcile the concept.Take a moment and ponder how pompous this is.
Um. Yeah.
Jehovah.
What do you make of John 1:18? Wouldn't this include Isaiah?
Some folks believe TD Jakes is a modalist.
It's not easy to find a "horse's mouth" statement.
T. D. Jakes hisself: My views on the trinity.
No man has seen the Father except the Son.
By the Church, yes.
Are you admitting to being a modalist?
Jakes' statements have been a problem, referring to things like "manifestations" rather than the orthodox "persons". E.g.,
“There is one God, creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” (From Jakes' doctrinal statement)
"Manifestations" is modalist language. And from the CT article, we read:
In spite of all the distinctives, God is one in His essence. Though no human illustration perfectly fits the Divine, it is similar to ice, water and steam: three separate forms, yet all H²O. Each element can co-exist, each has distinguishing characteristics and functions, but all have sameness.
Water/ice/steam is a classic modalist illustration for how they understand God.
Has Jakes ever come out and used plainly orthodox language to refer to the trinity?
By the Church, yes.
Are you admitting to being a modalist,
I could say the syncretic heresy promulgated
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
through the Roman "church" by the pagan Constantine
and those who followed
For the record, the heresy of Modalism aka Sabellianism was condemned by church fathers such as Tertullian and Dionysius long before the time of Constantine.
I'm taking your response as a “yes” to the question “are you a modalist”.
You must believe the TRADITIONS of man and reject The WORD of YHvH NAU Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! YHvH OUR Elohim IS ONE YHvH; Yah'shua said :
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
You are confused. Modalism is a tradition of men, not the trinity of the Church of Jesus Christ. Modalism is essentially a pagan attempt to explain how God has revealed Himself by proposing one person with three modes, forms, manifestations or faces.
Of course the orthodox view is that there is one God in three divine persons, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial.
This orthodox view, I take it, you do not believe.
BTW, what you condemn as the traditions of men is simply the Church exercising the authority given to it by Christ and His apostles to identify and condemn all anti-biblical, anti-christian ideas.
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. (Acts 20)Modalism is one of these perverse things that the Church itself has condemned. Thankfully, it seems to be confined to a few rogue sects today.
You made the statement, “that blood...marked the household as Jewish” Everything is usually labeled Jewish in the Bible by Christians but it is not. Jews came from ONE tribe ONLY, Judah. There were 11 other tribes with their people called by their tribal name: Dan/Danites, Asher/Asherites, Benjamin/Benjamenites etc. Remember Paul said “I'm a Benjaminite.”
Moses wasn't a Jew, Abraham wasn't a Jew, Isaac, Jacob etc.
You really have to untangle the difference between Jews, Hebrews and Israelites to understand the scripture properly.
Hope this helps.
I called them Jews, because that is how most commonly refer to them, today, no matter the tribe. One might call them Israelites, and they were of many different tribes, being descendants of Jacob, through his sons, including Judah, Asher, Levi, Benjamin and the others. But they all shared a belief in the God of Abraham.
I think you asked for a ping for when I posted my thought on the Trinity. Here you go!
Must
Be
Labeled!
Because God has to fit in a box! Isn't freedom of thought wonderful, brother?
Church fathers? Are you going to change your handle to topcatholic54?
ping, or pong if you prefer ;)
I prefer "ping" and I thank you for it....:)
Perhaps my line of reasoning disturbs the comfortable world
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
of neatly arranged fantasies of manmade Traditions
Good thing none of that has anything to do with the Catholic Church, founded by the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus Christ, and guided by the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, the Holy Spirit, to this day.
Calvin? Luther? Machen? Baker-Eddy? Smith? Hubbard?
BTW, what you condemn as the traditions of men is simply the Church exercising the authority given to it by Christ and His apostles to identify and condemn all anti-biblical, anti-christian ideas.
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. (Acts 20)
Modalism is one of these perverse things that the Church itself has condemned. Thankfully, it seems to be confined to a few rogue sects today.
You can not see that the wolves were the promulgation of syncretism If you were to read the Word, you would realize that EkklesiaYah'shua rebuked the Pharisees because their Traditions
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
impugned the Holy Word of Elohim.
at Nicea and afterward by the "church".
is not a corporation to make new rules like the Pharisees
but is YHvH's called out ones to follow His Word since Deut 4:10
And any household which did not accept the covering of the Just as today, only those who accept the blood sacrifice My understanding is that any household that accepted
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
the Blood of the Lamb was saved, Jew or Gentile.
Blood of the Lamb was slaughtered, Jew or Gentile.
and the covering of the Blood of the Lamb over their sins will be saved.
pingshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
YouIf you were to read the Word, you would realize that Ekklesia is not a corporation to make new rules like the Pharisees...Must
Be
Labeled!
Because God has to fit in a box! Isn't freedom of thought wonderful, brother?
So true!
It is the Catholic Church, founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.
***If you were to read the Word, you would realize that Ekklesia is not a corporation to make new rules like the Pharisees...
So true!
It is the Catholic Church, founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.***
I see that there are yet more individuals who do not understand the difference between the Word of God (Jesus) and the word of God (scripture). There are many types of Bibliolatrists who worship snippets and excerpts from an already abridged Bible, and there are many who simply do not get that God Incarnate (Jesus) is not able to be reduced to words on a page.
***This “freedom of thought” mentioned is not actually freedom of thought, but more like freedom to cherry-pick Scripture for the verses that can be twisted into the desired form (ignoring the rest). Ain’t euphemisms grand?***
Fantastic.
The whole effect of the Reformation was to promulgate the idea that all it takes to get wealthy is to come up with yet another twist on selected scripture, pitch that tent and pass the hat.
There is another thread going here on Earl Paulk, creator of an Atlanta megachurch who was exposed as, among other things, the father of his ‘nephew’, as well as having affairs with multiple women in his ‘church’. Archbishop, not less. I wonder which in the Apostolic line conferred that title upon him.
When the church is created by men and not Jesus Christ, no telling what you will wind up with.
Be sure to look me up at the ingathering :)
The Shema says elohim is echad not yachid.
Shema Israel Yahweh elohynu Yahweh echad.(not yachid)
Hear O Israel Yahweh our God Yahweh is ONE.
echad = composite ONE
yachid = indivisible ONE
You do the Math.
Like from Good Friday to Easter Sunday is THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. I guess Yahshua was confused or lied. Oh my...
There have been groups for two millennia that have attempted to undermine the Word of God as it has been received and understood by Christ's own body, the Church. In th early days it was groups like the Ebionites, Arians, and Sabellians that were confused about the nature of the Godhead. They were all heretics, the groups that Paul warned the early Church to guard against. Today we have the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals and certain sects among the messianics that hold to the same heretical views. The all diminish the true nature of God in some key respect. Some of these folks are proud of their heresies and some seek to hide them from plain view.
Heretics will always try to claim they are the authentic interpreters of the Word of God, and that all other views are the traditions of men. Their claims usually fall on deaf ears because they are manifestly false.
The Shema says elohim is echad not yachid.
Shema Israel Yahweh elohynu Yahweh echad.(not yachid)
Hear O Israel Yahweh our God Yahweh is ONE.
echad = composite ONE
yachid = indivisible ONE
You do the Math.
It occurs in:
Which is why most of His citations are from Deuteronomy, a retelling of the Law. Which is why Acts 17:11 has such impact I just did a word study on אחד
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
HSN-259 It does not seem to be composite one
Gen. 1:5, 9; 2:24; 11:6; 21:15; 22:2; 26:10; 27:45; 32:23; 33:13; 34:16, 22; 40:5; 41:5, 11, 22, 25; 42:11, 13, 16, 19; 48:22; Exod. 8:27; 9:6f; 10:19; 11:1; 12:46; 14:28; 17:12; 24:3; 25:19; 26:6, 11; 29:1, 3, 23; 33:5; 36:13, 18; 37:8, 19; Lev. 5:7; 7:14; 8:26; 12:8; 13:2; 14:10, 21; 15:15; 16:5, 8; 22:28; 23:18f; 24:22; 25:48; 26:26; Num. 1:41, 44; 2:28; 6:11, 14, 19; 7:11, 13, 15, 19, 21, 25, 27, 31, 33, 37, 39, 43, 45, 49, 51, 55, 57, 61, 63, 67, 69, 73, 75, 79, 81; 11:19; 13:2, 23; 14:15; 15:16, 24; 16:15, 22; 17:18, 21; 28:4, 11, 15, 19, 22, 27, 30; 29:2, 4, 8, 11, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28, 31, 34, 36, 38; 31:28, 30, 34, 39, 47; 34:18; 35:30; Deut. 1:2, 23; 6:4; 17:6; 19:15; 25:5; 28:7, 25; 32:30; Jos. 3:12f, 16; 4:2, 4; 7:21; 9:2; 12:9ff; 17:14, 17; 22:14, 20; 23:10, 14; Jdg. 4:16; 6:16; 8:18; 9:2, 37; 13:2; 15:4; 16:29; 17:5; 18:19; 20:1, 8, 11; 21:3, 6, 8; 1 Sam. 1:1; 2:34; 6:17; 7:9; 9:3, 15; 10:3; 11:7; 13:17f; 14:40; 16:18, 20; 22:20; 24:15; 25:14; 26:15, 20, 22; 27:1; 2 Sam. 2:21; 3:13; 6:19f; 7:7, 23; 12:1; 13:30; 17:12, 22; 18:10; 19:15; 23:8; 1 Ki. 3:17; 4:7, 19; 5:2; 6:25; 7:37f; 8:56; 11:13, 36; 13:11; 18:6; 19:2, 5; 20:13, 29, 35; 22:8f, 13; 2 Ki. 3:11; 4:22, 39; 6:12; 7:8, 13; 8:6; 12:10; 15:20; 17:27f; 18:24; 25:19; 1 Chr. 12:15, 39; 17:6, 21; 24:6, 17; 29:1; 2 Chr. 3:17; 4:15; 5:13; 18:7f, 12; 24:8; 28:6; 30:12; 32:12; Ezr. 3:1, 6; 10:13, 16; Neh. 1:2; 5:18; 8:1f; 11:1; Est. 3:8, 13; 7:9; 8:12; Job 14:4; 31:15; 33:23; 41:8; 42:11; Ps. 14:3; 53:4; 106:11; 139:16; Prov. 1:14; Eccl. 2:14; 3:19f; 4:8; 6:6; 7:28; 9:2f, 18; 12:11; Isa. 4:1; 6:6; 9:13; 10:17; 23:15; 27:12; 30:17; 36:9; 47:9; 51:2; 66:8, 17; Jer. 3:14; 24:2; 32:39; 51:60; 52:20, 25; Ezek. 1:15f; 4:9; 8:7f; 9:2; 10:9f; 11:19; 17:7; 19:3, 5; 21:24; 23:13; 33:2, 24, 30; 34:23; 37:16f, 19, 22, 24; 40:5ff, 26, 43, 49; 41:11; 45:7, 11; 48:1ff, 23, 31; Dan. 8:3, 13; 9:27; 10:5, 13, 21; 11:27; 12:5; Hos. 2:2; Amos 6:9; Jon. 3:4; Zeph. 3:9; Hag. 1:1; Zech. 3:9; 4:3; 11:8; 14:7, 9; Mal. 2:10, 15 NAU Zechariah 14:9 And YHvH will be king over all the earth; in that day YHvH will be the only one, and His name the only one.
I agree with you that Yah'shua provided commentary on His Tanach. NAU Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures(Tanach) daily to see whether these things were so.
Blessings on you and your house.
***There have been groups for two millennia that have attempted to undermine the Word of God as it has been received and understood by Christ’s own body, the Church. In th early days it was groups like the Ebionites, Arians, and Sabellians that were confused about the nature of the Godhead. They were all heretics, the groups that Paul warned the early Church to guard against. Today we have the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals and certain sects among the messianics that hold to the same heretical views. The all diminish the true nature of God in some key respect. Some of these folks are proud of their heresies and some seek to hide them from plain view.***
Well put.
***Heretics will always try to claim they are the authentic interpreters of the Word of God, and that all other views are the traditions of men. Their claims usually fall on deaf ears because they are manifestly false.***
There are normally enough followers to fill the hat when it is passed.
The people who undermined the Word of God go by names like "early church fathers". Really, if you look at the word translated "church" it is a preposterous phrase. And then there is the whole, "call no man father" thing. I mean , how unscriptural must something be before you give it up?
But why would we put merit in these men who had far less resources than we do today? Why not make up your own mind? Will these ECF's stand with you at the Judgment? Will your Pastor stand with you at the Judgment? Or will you stand alone before the LORD? Your salvation is your own responsibility.
I am curious why you troll around these threads and just call people names? If you have it all figured out, then why not enlighten the rest of us with your insights? If you cared about our salvation, I would think your posting would look much different.
Why does it seem to bother you so much that some of us have freed ourselves from the burdens of mainstream Christianity? We are no longer slaves to the doctrines of men. Does this threaten in some way?
Who did Isaiah see, high and lifted up?Jehovah.
But John tells us that it was Jesus that Isaiah saw.
In John's Apocalypse, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last -- who is it?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.