Posted on 02/12/2009 8:40:24 PM PST by Chris DeWeese
A Tennessee historian and author best known for his searches for the Ark of the Covenant the box containing the Ten Commandments is now challenging much of modern Christianity, claiming the traditional version of the faith has more in common with ancient paganism than actual biblical content.
"Today, it is amazing what is being presented as Christianity," says Richard Rives of Lewisburg, Tenn., who has just released a book and DVD collection titled, "Time is the Ally of Deceit."
"First century believers would have never accepted [today's practices]," the 56-year-old ark hunter told WND. "We must earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints."
In his new book and videos, Rives goes on a history-packed journey beginning with the creation of the world and Satan's deception in the Garden of Eden, examining how worship of the sun god among ancient cultures influenced the worship of the true God of the Bible.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Check this out!
Duh.
I see that the person who posted this used to be kerryusama04 and under that name was ‘banned or suspended’
I cant believe I even glance at World Nut Daily.
Symbolism does not equate to Paganism
I wasn’t banned or suspended. I changed my screen name because the old one was passe’. Sheesh.
When I clicked on your name, I was taken to a page that listed your prior name “kerryusama04” and that you were previously banned or suspended.
Thanks for the heads up. I get it now. According to this nitwit, Christianity is packed with paganism while other religions such as Obamism and global warming are truthful. I got it...
Most Christians I know, know this already.
And all pagans I know, know it.
Even right down to the “Son” being born December 25 and in the pagan religion, the “Sun” is reborn on Winter Soltice (around December 20 something)
The two religion’s symbols are so similiar it’s ridiculous.
The Easter Bunny is a pagan fertility totem animal.
The Christmas Tree is a “Yule” tree.
On and on.
If I was banned or suspended, do you think FR would simply let me post under another screen name?
That's pretty much the point of Rives' books and stuff. These guys go to theology school, learn the truth, get churches, and don't teach what they learned in theology school. Well, they do teach the stuff they learn in school about raising money, though.
I must admit that some of modern churches leave me wanting.
Here in this town we had a WWF smackdown for Christ.
WWF wrasters came in and wrastled demons Symbolically to save the souls of the kids that were immersed in that WWF culture.
It struck me as effed up, but if it graced one soul...?
Well?
Paul went to the Jews as a Jew and to the Greeks as a Greek. I don’t see any problem relating to people on their level to try to get through to them. Teaching ‘Christianized’ paganism on the other hand, or spiritual harlotry as the Bible calls it, well, not so much...
I accurately posted what is currently visible for your account and made no comment about what it could mean or how it might be interpreted. I feel entitled to do that and do not need to correct or defend my ‘reasoning’. I find your ‘nothing to see here, moving on now’ comment uh...interesting. I do know of a poster who was banned and allowed to return.
Breaking: Plane crash in New York. On CNN now.
So you arent a fan of unitarians? ;)
Until we all come back to the Torah, which is the plumbline of truth and the only interpreter of the NT scriptures we might as well be practicing Buhdism along with our faith in Jesus.
Time for prayer. These things are so sad.
“...for what it is worth the Roman religion ...is man made and not based on scripture but man made doctrines and traditions...”
And your idea is based on????????????????
The RC Church is based on the teachings and worship services and traditions that arose right after the Resurrection oof Jesus. It is directly from the apostles to the early church fathers, and so on.
You can read all about it in Luke’s Acts of the Apostles. This is not rocket science. It’s all there if anyone wants to read it.
FReepers are so incredibly perceptive!
Christianity is a pagan religion. All religions are pagan. only absence of religion is the true religion.
Zen. Nothing is the best something of all.
The “Roman Religion” correctly refers to the religious practices of ancient preChristian Rome.
It was very much a grouping of different elements, with the seams of assembly rather obvious. A college of priests advised the Senate, with the college headed by the Pontifex Maximus.
But I have worked on a motorcycle before. I find Bombardier Quads to be more enlightening than simple motorcycle maintenance, though.
Do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.
ladyL - Respectfully, I believe your comments were a little harsh and somewhat incorrect. While it is true the Torah is “the plumbline of truth”, to assert the “Roman religion and it’s Protestant daughter” are not based on scriptures is simply not correct, in my view. I belong to an evangelical protestant church and every decision we make is viewed in the light of scripture. We also look at what the church Fathers (Roman Catholic) wrote and believed, because these were men of God, and our belief is that much of their work and teachings were inspired, and therefore worthy of our study and use. Here, in a nutshell is my view on the subject: All Christians are Brothers and Sisters in Christ. The Catholic (Universal) Church is the Bride of Christ. I imagine I can point to any denomination or church and find something that may not jibe with some particular scripture. My understanding of how I should live is that it is not what I put into my body that makes me unclean, it is the words that come out of mouth, the hatred in my heart and my failure to love my neighbor as myself that makes me unclean in God’s eyes. I don’t believe Jesus is concerned with what day we worship on, He wants our entire lives to be an act of worship. If you believe the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches are man made, I would suggest you look at what the Catholic Church has to say about the Sanctity of Life. Look at the Protestant churches, and see what fruit some of us are bearing. And one more thing ladyL, you and Gumdrop, Chris DeWeese and even old Jubal here are not only special, we are precious in our Fathers sight. He sent his son to die for us, because he Loved us. God Bless You -—JM
Mea Culpa
Mea Culpa
Mea Maxima Culpa.
Thanks for the heads up......
You wrote:
“Even right down to the Son being born December 25 and in the pagan religion, the Sun is reborn on Winter Soltice (around December 20 something)”
Uh, there are some serious problems with your claims here. For one thing, Dec. 25th was not picked as the Son’s birthday because of anything connected to the Sun. The words for son and sun, in ancient languages, have nothing to do with one another. Dec, 25th is not the soltice either.
“The two religions symbols are so similiar its ridiculous.”
What two religions? Be specific now. Christianity and...what? Don’t say “paganism”. You have to pick a specific paganism. Which one?
“The Easter Bunny is a pagan fertility totem animal.”
Okay, who uses the Easter Bunny as a Christian symbol? I don’t know of any Christian church that does. Can you name one please? Also, in what countries is the Easter Bunny a symbol to begin with? And please don’t bother posing a picture of some Lutheran school with an Easter Bunny on the teacher’s bulletin board, or a Catholic day care with an Easter Bunny on the door. Show me evidence that the Easter Bunny is RELIGIOUS symbol used in the worship of Christians.
“The Christmas Tree is a Yule tree.”
Is it? How exactly do you know? Isn’t this a convenient claim with no real evidence? Also, who exactly (i.e. what Christians) use Christmas trees as religious symbols? I can only think of one possibility - the Protestant sect called the Moravian Church. Other churches put up Christmas trees, but they have no religious symbolism whatsoever. They are connected to the time of year, the season. They convey no religious import whatsoever. If you claim otherwise, then please post exactly what that religious import is for Christians. Can you?
“On and on.”
Sorry, but rather than “on and on”, so far it’s at a dead stop. You need to show some evidence don’t you think?
Wait, wait, wait. According to Jer 31:31 the New Covenant was made only with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. That’s it. Yahshua said He came only for THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL. The Book of James was written to the 12 Tribes of Israel scattered abroad.
I don’t see the “church” anywhere in these scriptures, especially concerning the NEW COVENANT.
Thank you for your reply. You actually make some good points, I will give them some thought. I do hope you have a Blessed Day.-—JM
Okay ... Bear this...
Why have you never heard the Sunday-observing preachers explain the beautiful Christ-centered pictures, types and shadows contained in God's seven annual holy days? WHY does your Bible say Christ will command even present-day ISLAMIC nations, such as Egypt, to begin to keep the Feast of Tabernacles during His millennial reign?
WHY will Jesus Christ ENFORCE His weekly Sabbath days and His annual Sabbaths upon ALL NATIONS during His one thousand-year reign on this earth? Since Christ will FORCE all nations to keep His feast during the millennium, WHY do people assume all of God's annual holy days are "done away" today? If they are "done away" why will Christ force you, and every other human being to KEEP them when He rules this earth?
Your Bible says, "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh" (Isaiah 66:22-24).
This is describing the horrible punishment for rebellious, unrepentant sinners. Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), and the wages of sin is death in Gehenna fire (Romans 6:23). Survivors of the Tribulation and Day of the Lord will see the decaying bodies and ashes that were once living human beings as a witness and warning to those who would rebel against God's laws. Describing this same period the final chapter of the Old Testament says, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
"But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
"And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 4:1-3).
The "worm doth not die" because the larval stage of the fly does not die, but turns into another fly! This is describing rotting human flesh, fly-blown and teeming with maggots, being burned.
And the time setting? It is inescapable! This is another description of the horrendous events to occur just before and at the time of the second coming of Christ; the "Day of the Lord," and the beginning of Christ's RULE over this earth!
Notice the proof: "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked" (Isaiah 11:4).
HOW will He do this? What will be the method He will use to "slay the wicked"? Notice, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Revelation 19:20).
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is coming again. He is coming to RULE this rotten, God-defying, sin-sick, decadent world with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:27). One of the first laws Christ will enforce upon all nations is His command that they must OBSERVE HIS FEAST OF TABERNACLES!
But WHY?
For the simple reason that God's seven annual feasts, or holy days, picture the entire PURPOSE for human life! They picture, in moving, beautiful, rich types and shadows, the plan of salvation; the progressive fulfillment of all prophecy; how the saints of this time are but the "first fruits" of the great latter-day time of judgment; the second coming of Christ; the banishment of Satan; the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, and the great general resurrection of the "rest of the dead" (Revelation 20:5) to take place AFTER the millennium.
By understanding the types and shadows implicit in each of the annual Sabbaths, or holy days, one comes to understand the very PURPOSE OF ONE'S OWN LIFE! It is awesome! It is mind-boggling! It is GLORIOUS beyond your wildest imagination! Your fantastic human potential is so breathtaking you will not want to believe it at first. Yet, it is TRUE, as you will see amply proved in these pages!
At creation, the Divine Member of Elohim who brought the entire universe, the solar system, this earth and all life upon it into existence, gave command after command. He compacted pure ENERGY into MATTER. Matter is but energy, arranged in almost limitless law-abiding forms.
After the first six days of the REcreation of this earth (from an earlier creation, perhaps billions of years in the past, which had been destroyed by Satan), the one who had caused the dry land to appear; who had said "Let there be light," and who had said "Let US make man in OUR image," continued His creation process by RESTING! He had finished the WORK of creation, but He had not finished creating!
As the sixth day waned, and the earth turned on its axis, bringing sunset once more to the Mideast, Elohim RESTED from all His works! Your Bible says, "And God [Elohim. A plural word, meaning more than one] saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Genesis 1:31; 2:1-3).
Jesus Christ proclaimed, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
"Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath" (Mark 2:27, 28). The Sabbath was something which was MADE. It was made when MAN was made. It was made for MAN, and not "for the Jews"! There was no person called a "Jew" (from "Judah," who was one of the sons of Jacob, or Israel) on the earth until thousands of years later!
The Sabbath was made when MAN was made, and it was made by its MAKER, who is, believe it or not, the same personage of the Godhead who "emptied Himself" and "became of no repute," and was born of the virgin Mary!
Notice that Jesus Christ said He is LORD of the SABBATH day, and not Lord of "Sunday"! The true "Lord's Day" is THE SABBATH; the day of which Jesus is LORD!
In His pre-human state, as a member of the divine family we call "God," the one who became Christ wrote with His own finger on two tables of stone the Ten Commandments. He wrote, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
"But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8-11).
He commanded Israel to REMEMBER the Sabbath because it was created at creation! Christ of the New Testament is the CREATOR of the Old Testament! Your Bible plainly says so! Notice it, "John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word [Greek: Logos, meaning "Spokesman"], and the Word was with God [Greek: Theos a plural, synonymous with Elohim in the Hebrew], and the Word was God.
"The same was in the beginning with God.
"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
"He came unto his own [the Jews], and his own received him not.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
"Which were born [Greek: gennao, meaning "begotten"], not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [Greek: "tabernacled"] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" (John 1:1-14).
Can anything be plainer? The one who said "Let there be light;" who said, "Let the dry land appear;" the one who spoke to Moses out of the burning bush and said "I AM"; The one who parted the Red Sea; the one who wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger in stone IS THE SAME PERSON WHO WAS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY!
Do you doubt this? No sane person can! Unless we are to rip John 1 out of our Bibles, the plain truth is that Jesus Christ, in His pre-human state, was the divine SPOKESMAN of the God family called Elohim. Elohim is a PLURAL word! This is why God (Elohim) said, "Let US make man in OUR image" (Genesis 1:26).
Do you require further proof? Then notice what Jesus said to the doubting Pharisees who challenged Him! "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
"Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:56-58). The false prophets of this world WILL NOT accept these divinely inspired words! They WILL NOT admit that Jesus Christ is the GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!
WHY?
Because if they admit that the one who wrote the Ten Commandments is the SAME personage of the Godhead who came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, they condemn themselves for refusing to observe God's wonderful, righteous laws! They know that if they admitted the truth about John 1 they would be condemned of God for refusing to keep the holy Sabbath days and God's annual Sabbaths!
Yet, the first great edict which the conquering, returning Christ will issue to the nations is to command them to come up to Jerusalem to KEEP THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES!
Read it in your own Bible: "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
"And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
"And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
"This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-19). No matter who you are; no matter your racial, political or religious background, you WILL be keeping God's Sabbath days, and you WILL be keeping His annual Sabbaths when God sets up His kingdom on this earth!
In that day, there will be no Muslims, Shintoists, Animists, Buddhists, Confucianists, Hindus, Catholics, Protestants, or Satanists! Instead, there will be ONE GREAT WORLD RELIGION; the TRUE religion of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! All nations will be required to keep the LAWS OF GOD!
IF they are still alive then (which is very much in doubt), such dictators as Maomar Kadaffi, Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro and Slobodan Milosevich WILL BE KEEPING THE SABBATH AND THE HOLY DAYS!
There's more ...if you can bear it.

The White Horse of False Religion has been riding for years.
Okay ...
Was The Birth Of Jesus Christ The "First Noel"?
The "first noel" is a common phrase. Not only is it one of the dozens of best-known Christmas carols, it may be found on cups and glasses, on orbs and bulbs, on gaily-colored wrapping paper, and practically everywhere, including huge letters set up on brightly-lit neighborhood lawns.
The words of the famous song are well-known: "The first noel, the angels did say, was to certain poor shepherds in fields where they lay," etc. Thus, a purely pagan phrase is adapted to the annunciation of the birth of Christ by the angels. Millions casually assume that the "first Noel" simply means "the first Christmas." Not so.
The word has a Celtic origin, and comes from two words among the ancient region of Gaul (modern day northern France and Brittany), novo Hel. Novo means "new" and Hel means "sun." You will recognize both ancient words in our English words "novice," and "heliograph." It meant "new sun", or the winter solstice, and marked the first day of the year when the days began lengthening.
The holiday is actually nothing more than the ancient "Saturnalia," celebrated among different pagan, heathen peoples in different lands by amazingly similar customs and nonsensical beliefs. SUN worship was virtually universal among all savage, heathen tribes, clans, and nations.
Truth be told, the celebration of the birth of Christ has occurred in every month of the year among different peoples at different times. For a period of centuries, it was celebrated in January. To this day, a common expression is "the twelve days of Christmas," which refer to the signs of the Zodiac, and pagan, agrarian rituals. In other words, as pagans prayed to the sun god, they celebrated the signs of the seasons; appealing to the solis invictus, or the invincible sun, to "begin his journey back to the northern latitudes," lengthening the days, warming the earth, melting the ice and snow of winter, and bringing once again the springing forth of new life.
By taking such "quaint" beliefs, and adapting them to nominal "Christian" beliefs, the universal church was able to "convert" countless hundreds of thousands of savage peoples in dozens of countries all over the world. As one book, The Origins of Christmas, states, "Across Europe, Roman, German or Celtic festivals marked the beginning of winter. Christianity originated and expanded in the ancient world by promising a new life, and by announcing a new light to the world in the person of Jesus Christ. Little by little, a calendar of religious festivals was established from the forth century, replacing ancient rituals and pagan celebrations."
But the ancient rituals and pagan celebrations, with all their accompanying symbolism and enactments were by no means replaced with anything that was "Christian." One may claim a pig is a duck hundreds of times, but the pig is a pig, nevertheless.
Christ Was Not Born In The Winter
Christ was not born on or anywhere near the 25th of December. The Bible says, "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night [Note carefully! The sheep were gathered into sheep cotes much earlier; no sheep were still "abiding in the field" this late in the year. But in September or early November, such a scene could have obtained. There is ample proof for this]."
There is virtual unanimity among some of the most well-known commentators on this point: Barnes, Doddridge, Lightfoot, Joseph Scaliger, and Jennings, who wrote Jewish Antiquities all agree that December 25th could not have been Christ's date of birth. Joseph Mede, following a long dissertation on the subject, says, "At the birth of Christ every woman and child was to go to be taxed at the city whereto they belonged, whither some had long journeys; but the middle of winter was not fitting for such a business, especially for women with child and children, to travel in. Therefore, Christ could not be born in the depth of winter. Again, at the time of Christ's birth, the shepherds lay abroad watching with their flocks in the night time; but this was not likely to be in the middle of winter. And if any shall think the winter wind was not so extreme in these parts, let him remember the words of Christ in the gospel, "Pray that your flight be not in the winter," if the winter was so bad a time to flee in, and women and children to travel in.
Here is what Christ Himself said: "Then [when the Abomination of Desolation is in place] let them which be in Judaea [the very place of Christ's birth] flee into the mountains:
"Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
"Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
"And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24:16-21).
Notice how Jesus Christ singled out pregnant women, or nursing mothers, saying they should PRAY that they should not have to flee their homes into the countryside, and into the mountainous country of Judaea in the winter! Further, it was not the practice of the Roman government to force their subject peoples into arduous, even perilous, travel in the middle of winter. Their object was census-taking for taxation purposes, not to create popular rebellion. Therefore, they would have chosen the season of the year when it was the easiest time for travel, not the most difficult.
Now, continuing with the account of the annunciation of Christ's birth:
"And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
"And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
"And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men [actually, the verse reads, in the original, `Peace on earth among men of good will'].
"And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
"And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger" (Luke 2:7-16).
However, one may see the shepherds AND the wise men, or the "Magi" (Persian followers of the "Magus," and believers, perhaps, in Zoroaster, who were forced to acknowledge the King of kings and Lord of lords) standing about the manger in many, many pictures, movies, books, and of course, in decorations on millions of lawns.
But the Magi did not arrive in Bethlehem until after a journey of many, many MONTHS, perhaps a YEAR after the birth of Christ. Historical facts mean nothing to those who blindly adopt "custom," however.
Study carefully the 2nd chapter of Matthew. Herod would not have risked killing all the little boys from two years old and younger if he had known the Christ child was a mere week or two old! He ordered the murder of all those from two years and younger because he had carefully interrogated the wise men about the time the star had appeared. Notice the account, how the Magi had "...come into the HOUSE [not a manger], [where] they saw the young child [not here called a baby, or an infant] with Mary His mother..." (Matthew 2:16).
This is simply another example of the ignorance of millions, who, though they believe they are celebrating a "Christian" custom, have not bothered to so much as read the Bible account carefully.
What Is The Origin Of The Christmas Tree?
Tree worship is virtually universal among heathen peoples. To this day, there are those who believe trees have a spirit; those who will "apologize to the spirit of the tree" before cutting it down.
From the earliest times, since trees come in so many thousands of varieties, and are so useful to man, ancient mankind ascribed any number of god-like qualities to trees. Trees produce many hundreds of varieties of foods for man, from nuts to bananas; from fruits to bark used as spices, as in the case of the cinnamon tree. The ubiquitous palm trees of the tropics and Middle East have been used for rafts, canoes, building homes, thatching roofs, producing clothing, and for dozens of kinds of foods, from coconuts to dates.
But it was not only the most "primitive" peoples who worshiped trees. Even such notable Greek philosophers a Plato and Aristotle taught that trees possessed reason, just as humans do; believed trees had "feelings." Ancient Egyptians held to the superstition that the life of a human being and the life of a tree were somehow connected; that the fate of one was identical to the fate of another. In the famous Egyptian fable called "the tale of two brothers," dating from perhaps 1,000 B.C., one of the brothers allegedly "leaves his heart on the top of the flower of an acacia tree," but then falls down dead when the tree is cut down.
There is a "black arts" connection here. As in voodoo, wherein people believe a human being can be cursed with sickness, wounds, or even killed by sticking pins in a doll-like caricature of the victim, many believed that a person's life was inextricably intertwined with the life of a tree. By depositing fingernail clippings, human hair, or some article that had been in close contact with the man, pagans believed they were putting themselves into close "personal" contact with the tree. Then, if certain boughs were cut off, and investigated, and it appeared that a blight was affecting the tree, the man drew conclusions from thisbelieving he would be stricken with a disease, or die.
Encyclopedias are replete with pagan concepts of tree worship. Customs in dozens of countries all over the world show that it was common belief that humans and trees had some common bond; some spiritual interconnection. Some believed it was possible to transfer disease from a sick person to a tree. Thus, they would place bits of hair, items of clothing, or some personal item from the sick person; even fingernail clippings, into a niche or hole bored into the tree. The Encyclopedia Britannica, eleventh edition, states that some sick persons would be passed through the aperture resulting from splitting a tree, and then, if the tree survived, the patient would surely recover. In India, the Korwas hung rags on trees which formed the shrines of their various village gods. Even in early America, in Nebraska, some believed that hanging of objects on the branches of trees propitiated supernatural beings, or could give them such blessings as good hunting and good weather.
The universality of tree worship was also observed by the well-traveled Charles Darwin, the "father of evolution," who wrote of a tree he saw in South America festooned with various offerings, including rags, meat, and even cigars! Not only were libations made to this tree, but horses were sacrificed to it.
From the most ancient times, the Bible records how the pagan nations inhabiting Palestine in the time of Joshua and the Israelitish occupation worshiped in "groves." Wooded copses atop hills were used as pagan shrines. Sometimes, amidst the groves, the tops and branches were lopped off a standing tree, which was then carved to represent a phallic symbol, or carved with the face of a "god." Notice one outstanding example:
"And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city.
"And they set them up images and groves [groves of trees] in every high hill, and under every green tree:
"And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger" (2 Kings 17:9-11). God commanded themas He commands us today"LEARN NOT THE WAY of the heathen!" We are commanded of God NOT to adopt the customs; the "way" of worship of the demented, savage, ignorant minds of heathen peoples, thinking them "quaint" or "cute," and then pretending they are "Christian."
God said, "And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them" (2 Kings 17:15).
If pagan Amorites, Amalakites, Babylonians, Druids, Teutons, Celts, Greeks, Egyptians or Romans could come back to life today, they would immediately recognize many of the customs practiced by professing "Christians."
But where did the concept of cutting down millions of little firs, spruce, or balsams come from? Most authorities agree it stems from the fable of "St. Boniface" (meaning "pretty face"), who supposedly cut down the "great oak of Jupiter," a tree worshiped by pagan Teutons at Geismar in Hesse, Germany. As the story goes, Boniface, who is also identified as an early English missionary, named "Winfred", came upon a group of heathens who were worshiping at their huge, spreading oak, the "sacred oak of Jupiter." Poor little Prince Asulf was about to be sacrificed to "Jupiter," it seems, until Boniface and his armed men stopped the impending sacrifice and rescued Asulf. Then, Boniface ordered the tree cut down. The legend varies; one version claiming he then planted an evergreen in its place, and another claiming he told the pagans in the next day or so that, by a divine miracle, a little fir tree had "sprung up in its place," and that the new little tree was the "tree of life," and represented "Christ."
Quaint. Always accommodating, the apostate church and churchmen allowed heathens to cling to their symbols of worship, while merely calling them by a different name.
One version of the story says Boniface had a church built in honor of "St. Peter" from the felled oak. Some oak tree!
Today, some utterly ignorant "Christian" people will utter the bovine nonsense that the "evergreen is a symbol of everlasting life"!
But there is an even older version of the story, in which Nimrod, the first organizer of cities and city-states (Genesis 10:8-12), who was also identified with Tammuz, or the sun god, was depicted by a sacred tree, which was cut down, only to find that a young green tree had sprung up from the trunk overnight, thus representing the "rebirth" of Nimrod, or the sun god.
The early pagan Scandinavians were tree worshipers, and it was only natural that their "Brumalias" or the winter festival of Saturnalia should feature the holly tree and the fir tree, whose wreaths and branches were brought indoors. The Romans exchanged green tree branches on the "calends," or the 1st of January, as good luck symbols.
Today, tens of millions of beautiful trees, which COULD become huge, mature Douglas firs, spruce, balsams, or other kinds of conifers, and which COULD be used to build millions of homes, or produce resins, paper, and dozens of useful products, are instead cut down, then shipped via truck and rail to distribution points, then stood up, to have a base nailed to them, and sold to "Christians" to take indoors and decorate with orbs and bulbs.
As the tree withers and dies, it becomes a fire hazard. Each year, children and families die as a result of faulty wiring on Christmas tree lights.
Does God say anything about the Christmas tree? Notice, "Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
"For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
"They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:1-4). When God says LEARN NOT the "way of the heathen," He means exactly what He says. Notice further, "When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
"Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
"Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods [this was done in groves of trees, or asherah, just as the worshipers of Jupiter were doing in Germany].
"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29-32). Many will argue that Christmas and other pagan festivals are "extra-Biblical"; that, while they are not enjoined by scripture, are nevertheless harmless inventions of sincere Christians in worship of God and Christ. But God thunders at rebellious mankind, "Thou shalt not add thereto" in methods of worship!
Plainly, God commanded His people NOT TO COPY the modes of heathen worship of the degenerate pagan nations of the world; not to adapt their ceremonies, symbols, and rituals, and call them by a different name. Yet, in direct, flagrant disobedience to this divine command, tens of millions indulge in customs which would be readily recognized by pagan sun-worshipers.
Today, the entire TIME of late autumn until mid-winter is celebrated. The day or so after Hallowe'en (itself a totally demonic, satanic, pagan celebration), millions of commercial establishments drag out their Christmas decorations, and put them in their shops and display windows. God commanded, "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
"Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer [one who claims to be able to communicate with the dead],
"For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD..." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).
"`Tis the season to be jolly! Fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la! Deck the halls with boughs of Holly!"a familiar refrain. The "Christmas season" is exactly the same thing as "observing times"; observing the winter solstice, just as pagan sun-worshipers did.
The "holiday season," or "yuletide," or the "twelve days of Christmas" are commonly used to connote the "Christmas" holiday, or the "Christmas season."
Where Did We Get The Yule Log?
What in the world is "yuletide"? What is a "yule log," and where did it come from? Like so many of our "modern" customs, the yule log is also buried in the most ancient myths and superstitions. A Nordic word for the winter solstice was geol, the "g" being pronounced like our "y," thus: "yeol" or "yool." The Encyclopedia Britannica, Eleventh Edition, states that the term has come to mean "the season of Christmas." Further, it says, "This word is chiefly used alone as an archaism or in poetry or poetical language, but is more common in combination, as in `yuletide,' `yule-log,' & etc....it was the name of two months of the year, December and January, the one the `former yule' (se aerra geola) and the other the `after yule' as coming before and after the winter solstice. According to A. Fick [its] proper meaning is noise, clamour, the season being one of rejoicing at the turning of the year among Scandinavian peoples before Christian times" (ibid. Vol 28, p. 946).
Writing of both the Christmas tree and the yule log, Hislop says, "The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in pagan Rome and pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir;
"The palm tree denoting the pagan messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith. The mother of Adonis, the sun-god and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was the tree, the son must have been recognized as the `man the branch.' And this entirely accounts for the putting of the yule log into the fire on Christmas eve, and the appearance of the Christmas tree the next morning...but why, it may be asked, does he enter the fire under the symbol of a log? ...Now the yule log is the dead stock of Nimrod, deified as the sun-god, but cut down by his enemies; the Christmas tree is Nimrod redivivusthe slain god come to life again" (The Two Babylons, Hislop, p. 87, 98).
Satan paved the way toward the Madonna and child with many false, counterfeit representations, including Isis and Osirus, which are the Egyptian versions of the Babylonian Nimrod and Semiramus.
Thus, it was no great leap of imagination for pagans to embrace the worship, NOT of Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world; as the RULER, who will return to this earth to rule it with a rod of iron, but as a "little babe in his mother's arms"; worship symbols of "madonna and child." After all, they had done so for thousands of years! But God's Word does NOT portray Jesus Christ as being overshadowed by His mother, and does NOT urge WORSHIP toward the "queen of heaven," which was the role of Semiramus, the mother-wife of Nimrod!
I never said the “Son” being born on December 25 had anything to do with the “Sun”. How many articles have you read that stated different dates of Jesus being born? It was a convenient way of easing pagans into Roman beliefs to celebrate a “Sun” being born with the “Son” being born.
Specific paganism, ok, I’ll go with Celtic! But while we are getting picky, why are you so readily satisfied with “Christian”? Heck, there are so many variations in Christianity, probably more than in paganism.
Who uses the Easter Bunny as a Christian Symbol? I don’t know, maybe it is thousands of churches who have easter egg hunts after church on Sunday? Maybe I just imagine that though.
As for “proof”, that Yule trees are not put up as Christmas trees because Christmas trees aren’t “religious”. I just whatever man. You are obviously just bullying (and I think I’ve seen post to me before, quite obnoxiously. are you trolling me?). But it could possibly have something to do with the word CHRIST in Christmas Tree.
Thank you. You have much more evidence than I had the time or inclination to put up.
You wrote:
“I never said the Son being born on December 25 had anything to do with the Sun. How many articles have you read that stated different dates of Jesus being born?”
Many.
“It was a convenient way of easing pagans into Roman beliefs to celebrate a Sun being born with the Son being born.”
Incorrect. As we know - and as I posted here before - it is documented that the 25th was picked to keep Christians AWAY from pagan celebrations on that day. Early Christians even wrote about this as doumented by Manfred Clauss, the world’s greatest living expert on Mithradaism. In other words, Christmas was establsihed on the 25th of Dec, to keep Christians OUT OF PAGANISM and not to ease them into it.
“Specific paganism, ok, Ill go with Celtic!”
Then you’ve already lost. And you’ll then fail to actually provide examples, right?
“But while we are getting picky, why are you so readily satisfied with Christian? Heck, there are so many variations in Christianity, probably more than in paganism.”
True, but for orthodox Christians, there is only one to start with.
“Who uses the Easter Bunny as a Christian Symbol? I dont know, maybe it is thousands of churches who have easter egg hunts after church on Sunday? Maybe I just imagine that though.”
And taht example is not an example at all. Again, an Easter Egg hunt is no more a pagan religious symbol incorporated into Christianity than the parish summer picnic is. Ispecifically warned you against such facile, superficial examples, and yet, as expected, that’s exactly the kind you picked. Sorry, it doesn’t work.
“As for proof, that Yule trees are not put up as Christmas trees because Christmas trees arent religious. I just whatever man. You are obviously just bullying (and I think Ive seen post to me before, quite obnoxiously. are you trolling me?).”
No, and a few weeks ago you were actually complimenting me on the News/Actvism part of the forum. If you think someone telling you to post some evidence is trolling, then you have a bigger issue - and a greater difficulty - than paganism.
“But it could possibly have something to do with the word CHRIST in Christmas Tree.”
And that would only show us that it was used at that season, not that it is considered a religious symbol by Christians despite a supposed pagan origin.
Try. Try real hard.
Armstrong?
He’s your source?
Lovely, just lovely. Gee, did he ever come to believe in Trinity before he died? Last time I checked, he denied the Trinity so he wasn’t even a Christian.
Not to even mention the numerous - and stupid - errors here:
Example: “Which is the chief “Christian” holiday? “
He claims Christmas. Wrong. It’s Easter and always has been.
Then he claims Easter is from Ishtar.
Wrong. Different languages and cultures, no relationship at all.
* Easter is the name of a pagan fertility goddess. The believers that walked and talked with Christ observed Passover
* December 25th is not the birthday of Jesus. It was the most important pagan birthday on the Roman calendar 300 years after the time of Christ
* The spot where many Christians believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity is really the exact location of the ancient worship of the pagan god Tammuz
* Sunday is not the Sabbath. Theologians substituted Sunday rest in place of Sabbath rest
* Believers are a part of Israel. There is only one plan of salvation faith in the Messiah of Israel, Yeshua, Jesus Christ
Well when you're right you're right!
There's no biblical evidence to support your statement. Only tradition.
Before you read the scripture from the book of Luke below please keep in mind that Luke was written anywhere from 30 to 60 years AFTER the death of Christ.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
So here, in these verses, we have follower of Christ observing the sabbath according to the sabbath commandment. Jesus is dead. The writer KNEW that Jesus had been dead for 30 to 60 years. Yet he mentions that commandment as being active, in force, and binding.
You wrote:
“So here, in these verses, we have follower of Christ observing the sabbath according to the sabbath commandment.”
That was not the point stated to you, however. The point was this: “Once he died, so did that covenant and so did the Judaism.”
Notice, what texan75010 said was different than what you respond with.
The issue is not what many followers of Christ did out of their own traditions or habits, but what happened to the old covenant. texan75010 is correct. When Jesus died and rose, the old covenant was ushered out, and the new was ushered in. Christ Himself said so (Matthew 26:28).
“Jesus is dead. The writer KNEW that Jesus had been dead for 30 to 60 years. Yet he mentions that commandment as being active, in force, and binding.”
Incorrect. What Luke says is that people followed the practices of the old covenant regarding the sabbath - the single most ingrained habitual and ritual practice of ancient Jews. He never once says that it was still in force. Also, common sense would dictate, in a society that still observed the sabbath, the new Christians would be obligated, just hours after Christ’s death, to work with that scheduled observance. After all, the Christians were already afraid of the Jews and hid in the upper room. To venture out to do work - working on the body of a condemned criminal whom almost all of Jerusalem had turned against - on the sabbath when all such work was forbidden would be to unnecessarily risk your neck!!!
Didn’t any of that occur to you?
Sorry, I inadvertently left off the germane quote from texan75010. His full quote read:
Jesus went to church on Saturday because he followed the old covenant that directed him to do so. Once he died, so did that covenant and so did the Judaism. Now heaven is our final resting place, or Sabbath.
He was implying that the sabbath was done away with at the death of Jesus. I presented biblical evidence to the contrary.
ncorrect. What Luke says is that people followed the practices of the old covenant regarding the sabbath - the single most ingrained habitual and ritual practice of ancient Jews. He never once says that it was still in force. Also, common sense would dictate, in a society that still observed the sabbath, the new Christians would be obligated, just hours after Christs death, to work with that scheduled observance
Everything you said said about this isn't in the bible. The author of Luke never came to this conclusion. The author was writing from a 30 to 60 year after the fact perspective. Yet he never saw fit to "explain" it like you did. That's because what you offered is offered from a traditional, evolved belief. Not a biblical or first century belief.
Didnt any of that occur to you?
Many times. But I realized that people just used it as a justification to disregard a commandment of the Lord.
Yes. Even with the same IP address.
Galatians 3:26-29 says that I am a son of God and Abraham’s offspring. I would say that puts me in to the category of Lost Sheep of Israel.
New Covenant - Hebrews 8
Since I am Abraham’s offspring, that new covenant has been made with me.
As for the church, Matthew 16:18 refers to it.
I am really not sure what your reference to James is about.
As for the Sabbath, Colossians 2:15-17 seem to cover that. It’s all about the cross and resurrection...Jesus.
Well, it’s a start.
Mark 1:21 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach.
Jesus was in good standing and was OK to teach at the synagogue.
Matthew 5:17 and 18 says Jesus says he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill them.
Luke 19:28 Says that all was completed and the scripture was fulfilled.
To say that any part of the Law was still in effect is to nullify what happened on the cross. Colossians 2:15-17 to me, makes it clear that the Jesus is the focus and the Law died/ended with his death.
Just because it was 30 years later, the fact that they rested on the sabbath does not mean it was still in force. It just means they rested in the way the original command dictated.
Scripture does refer to a sabbath rest in Hebrews 4, but that sabbath, to me, is clearly our rest after we die.
Jesus moved all of the commandments from the physical realm to the spiritual. The old covenant dictated actions, lying, murder, adultry, etc. The new covenant addresses man on a spiritual level of thoughts and intentions of the heart. vs 12
I think this gives sufficient evidence to support my statement....if not for you DouglasKC, then for the rest of the folks reading this. I am not trying to change your heart or mind, just educating the other readers.
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