BEWARE THE BITTER FRUITS OF APOSTASY (LDS OPEN THREAD)

LDS Gospel Library Lessons ^

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

 Remember fellow Christians: 

the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow!

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MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle/cult leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON)CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."

 

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Don't criticize?

 

Dallin H. Oaks, Mormon Apostle

 

 

 

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Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said ___________ but that's NOT the same as criticizing!

[Elsie]

 

 

First NephiGod told Lehi to look at the  ball and read the words written upon it. And when he read the words "he did fear and tremble exceedingly." 16:26

The pointers on the ball work according to the faith of its user. 16:28

And the words written on the ball change according to the faith of its user. 16:29

So Nephi found his way to the top of the mountain by following the instructions that were written on the ball. 16:30

 

 

 

"It's better to know nothing than to know what ain't so."
--Josh Billings

[svcw]

Not yet. Only took a few hours before the admin was called in.

[greyfoxx39]

Your comment "I think there must be some revenge in it for you." is "making it personal".

From the rules, "On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”

Attributing a revenge motive is making it personal.

Perhaps you aren't a frequent visitor of the Religion Forum?

[greyfoxx39]

Sorry RM. I posted #54 before seeing your post #37.

[dangus]

Catholics (and I suppose most other Christian denominations) are told to respond to an apostate spouse with love and evangelization and prayer, prayer and more prayer.

Mormons are told to get a divorce, and go for the house and kids. Well, OK, they’re not told to get a divorce, but they’re told it’s OK to get a divorce, and they’re told that if they don’t have a covenant marriage they won’t get all the blessings of the afterworld. So it’s an inevitable syllogism.

[dangus]

>> “The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.” <<

THat’s too wierd of a quote for a Mormon to make, given that they believe that all of his people were led away and deceived by imposters for 1800 years, as the Church fell into complete domination by the enemy.

I mean, yes, I agree with the internal reasoning of the quote; that’s why I’m a Catholic

[dangus]

>> You are an uber mormon basher. Kinda like the ex smokers that rail against tobacco. <<

So Mormonism is like a smoking addiction?

Hey, greyfoxx... I notice most anti-Catholic former Catholics on FR seem to know less about Catholicism than they could learn from watching “Nunsense.” It’s like they saw a lot of stuff they didn’t understand, and so they believe about Catholicism whatever their new brainwashers tell them.

[dangus]

>> You are an uber mormon basher. Kinda like the ex smokers that rail against tobacco. <<

So Mormonism is like a smoking addiction?

Hey, greyfoxx... I notice most anti-Catholic former Catholics on FR seem to know less about Catholicism than they could learn from watching “Nunsense.” It’s like they saw a lot of stuff they didn’t understand, and so they believe about Catholicism whatever their new brainwashers tell them.

(oops, hit return accidentally)

So, how active were you in the Mormon church?

[dangus]

>> and was paying attentions to a girl at Jersey, Channel Islands, <<

Pickin’ on the Jersey girls, again, Nana? ;^D

[Tennessee Nana]

Accept Jesus.
___________________________________

Which one ???

The mormon Jesus or the Christian Jesus of The Bible ???

[GreyMountainReagan]

Just wondering if it was pulled yet?

[mamelukesabre]

“Perhaps you aren’t a frequent visitor of the Religion Forum?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No I’m not. At least not that I’m aware of, not intentionally.

I don’t go to forums. I click on “latest articles” and browse. I’ve never clicked on a forum in the 8 years I’ve been posting here.

Frankly, the rule is asinine. Or at least the way the rule is being applied here. Religion is personal. But even so, I did not make religion personal with any of my posts. I merely drew a parallel between you and ex smokers and suggested that there is a revenge factor at work JUST AS THERE IS WITH EX SMOKERS. Otherwise, I can’t make any sense out of this thread whatsoever.

It seems to me you two(you and your moderator friend) have set up a little “speed trap”. You start obnoxious threads and see how close you can get to the line without crossing it. I would suggest that your moderator friend try to define a more substantial role for himself. Because to an outsider(one that does not go to this forum) it sure looks like the moderator is being yanked around by a chain.

I suppose I’m going to get 20 more snotty replies about all the additional rules I just broke. All you rule-mongers can choke on your rules for all I care. It ain’t my thing. I’m more into freedom than rules. All you’ve accomplished is to create a bunch of passive-aggressive underhanded posts and posters.

I’m done with this thread.

[Tennessee Nana]

What do you think of this ???

This was mormon doctrine and practice in Temple Square in the mid 1800s...

“These marriages are always performed in their sacred and secret Temple, in a singular manner-of which hereafter-and are termed sealings. People, according to Mormon technology, are married for time, but sealed for eternity. It is impossible to state all the licentiousness, under the name of religion, that these sealing ordinances have oc casioned. A woman has been married to a man she does not like. She comes to Salt Lake and sees some one whom she does like. The man’s position, however, is such that she does not wish to leave her husband, but only desires to secure another for an eternal husband. She can be sealed to this other man and still remain with her first husband; and the Mormons believe that all her children will belong to the man to whom she is “sealed.”

“No marriage is valid till physically consummated,” is a maxim of all human and divine law. These marriages or sealings are therefore CONSUMMATED to make them valid.

But the husband may know of the sealing ordinance, and desire to get his wife sealed to him. TO TELL HIM THE REAL FACTS MIGHT MAKE HIM APOSTASIZEs might make him apostatize; convert a warm adherent into a devoted enemy; and, therefore, the Mormons will perform a “MOCK CEREMONY,” contending that it is better one man be deceived, rather than the whole Church should suffer.

In this way no man, unless his position be so high as to make it impolitic, is certain of his dearest wife’s virtue, or his warmest friend’s honor.”

(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and desins, 1857 P 84)

John Hyde was a “70” at age 18..so he knew the inside stuff...

[Tennessee Nana]

# 65

Them “sacred” thingies...

[Religion Moderator]

This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

The defaults with the last installed software changes are different.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

If you do want to see RF posts, then click here to see the guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum.

"Open" threads on the Religion Forum are often contentious because they are like a town square. Other thread types (prayer, devotional, caucus, ecumenical) provide safe harbor.

[greyfoxx39]

If you love Jesus and accept Him as the path, then the bumps on the road are pebbles not worthy of mention. Accept Jesus.

Welcome to FR, metman.

I have accepted Jesus, and have faith in his saving grace. Thank you.

[greyfoxx39]

"I have accepted Jesus, and have faith in his saving grace. Thank you."

OOPS! I made the mistake I dislike by not capitalizing "HIS"...apologies to all.

[Elsie]

I notice most anti-Catholic former Catholics on FR seem to know less about Catholicism than they could learn from watching “Nunsense.”

It's STILL too early to turn this into a Cath vs Prot thread.

[Elsie]

You start obnoxious threads and see how close you can get to the line without crossing it.

What is OBNOXIOUS about a thread that illustrates MORMON hiostory??

[Elsie]

Because to an outsider(one that does not go to this forum) it sure looks like the moderator is being yanked around by a chain.

No; it's the MODERATOR who has the job of ENFORCING the rules.

We don't MAKE the rules - JimRob does.

[Elsie]

who am I to judge?

Who are you NOT to?

[Elsie]

I made the mistake I dislike by not capitalizing "HIS"...apologies to all.

NT Greek - The alphabet was written in all capital letters, there was no such thing as lowercase.

[Elsie]

I am thrilled thet there is a Christian site on the net. Bless you and yours.

Don't let some folks upset you because you are so NEW here on FR.

Enjoy the give and take of free flowing information.

[Godzilla]

More compliments from Smith about his sheep...apparently Smith thought they were full of "sins, darkness and unbelief" and said if men who were internally against him didn't repent, he was going to send them "to hell." Imagine that. Joseph Smith claiming he had the power to personally send people to hell. Wow! What a god!

Couldn't have ANYTHING to do with a failed bank that Smith created?

[Tennessee Nana]

Welcome to FR, n00b...

Some of us are Christians...

And some others are wannabes...

On their conditions...

[SENTINEL]

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan — it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy." (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)

Brigham Young threatened: "I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my bowie knife and conquer or die. (Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.) Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet. (Voices, generally, 'go it, go it.') If you say it is right, raise your hands. (All hands up.) Let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.83)

[greyfoxx39]

You will be in my prayers. God speed.

What denomination will you witness for?

[greyfoxx39]

Thanks. Will you be in an area of relative safety?

[greyfoxx39]

That should be something you can work around. I hope you have a wonderful experience.

[Elsie]

I have been told that we will be safe, the food is wonderful, and the people appreciate the Word. I just can’t drink the water!

Yes; they DO!!

Our ex-pastor's son is working in Liberia, helping getting th3 country back on a solid foundation after years of really bad government.

[Elsie]

The Christian community accounts for 40 percent of the country’s population. Also 40 percent of the population maintains Indigenous beliefs. Muslims make up the remaining 20 percent of the population.[18]

[svcw]

Have a Blessed time.

[svcw]

Huh? So posting a historical document and commenting on it is obnoxious and baiting.....strange, I did not know that.

[dangus]

>> It’s STILL too early to turn this into a Cath vs Prot thread. <<

I didn’t say “Protestant”; I said “anti-Catholic.” I was hoping most people would not identify with that description.

P.S. I got 1:18 PM on my watch... is it late enough yet? (hhok)

[Osage Orange]

Plenty of non-mormons here have bashed...anyone that disagrees with the mormon religion.

[Godzilla]

placemark

[Tennessee Nana]

Of their standard works, the Book of Mormon, although most mentioned, is not the principal. The Doctrines and Covenants, containing some of the Revelations that Smith pretended to obtain, is viewed as the “law of God to this generation.” Its contents are very miscellaneous, comprising the organization of the Church; revelations as to priesthood, and cattle medicine; chewing tobacco, and sending out missionaries; “endowments from on’ high,” and “building taverns;” “supplying all the wants of my servant Joseph;” and anathematizing apostates, etc., etc.

Besides these, Smith attempted a new translation of the Old and New Testaments. This translation, however, is kept very secret, the people “not being able to bear it now.” Some singular extiracts from it have reached their presses, but the impression they created was not favorable. More than Jew ever read, or Christian ever conceived, and far more than Hebrew or Greek MS. ever contained, is to be seen in Smith’s new translation of the Bible.

While at Nauvoo Smith obtained four Egyptian mummies. In the bosom of one of them, a MS. was pretended to be found. Smith gave out that he made a “translation,” and the result was, “A Book of Abraham.” He announced it (”Times and Seasons,” vol. iii., p. 704), “A Translation of some Ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt, purporting to be the writings of Abraham, while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand on papyrus.” This was received with especial unction by the devout. Although evidently the work of the same hand as the Book of Mormon, Smith had somewhat improved himself in the use of words. It contains several singular engravings, a chart of astronomy, and is altogether quite unique.

The Apocalypse of St. John occupied the attention of Smith, and he composed “A Key to the Book of Revelations.” The Biblestudent would be startled at some of its views. As Smith had to labor to sustain his reputation as a prophet, accordingly, in December, 1830, he issued a Revelation, pretending to contain a “prophecy of Enoch,” “A revelation of the gospel to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden.”

These, which are of course morceaux choisies to the Church, have been collected and bound together into a little work called the “ Pearl of Great Price.” But, happily for the Church, they are not at all limited to their leyes scriptse. O. Hyde, at Iowa, taught that “these books were only our school-books, and as boys put away their elementary books, so Saints should learn to put away and live above these.”

This is very convenient doctrine, as too close a scrutiny in their book of Smith’s Revelations, proves him a very singular prophet; showing that Missouri was Zion; then Nauvoo was Zion; then Mormon salvation depended on building “Smtith’s Tavern,” and as it was not built, all the Mormons must be damned, according to Smith! And now Missouri is not Zion, and Nauvoo is not Zion, although they were both to be “eternal habitations for my Saints, saith the Lord,” but Salt Lake is Zion, about which the “Book” says nothing. The great criteria and guide to the Church, however, is, “constant” and oral revelation.

“The words of our Prophet Brigham are as much more important to us than those of the Saviour and Apostles in the New Testament, as their words were to the people at that time more than those of Noah in the Old Testament.”

This is the doctrine constantly urged, and believed; hence, Brigham’s sermons are all revelations, and, consequently, standard works for the Church. It is rather amusing to notice how frequently those revelations of Brigham contradict themselves and all reason.

(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857 Pp 132-134)

[Tennessee Nana]

“In the year, 18323, being then thirty-one years old, Brigham Young) heard and embraced Mormonism. He was convinced by Elder Samuel H. Smith, brother to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, WHO HAS SINCE APOSTASIZED, and was baptized by Eleazar Miller, now at Salt Lake.” (Pp 136, 137)

“Accordingly, in 1835, on the 14th of February, at Kirtliand, Ohio, Brigham Young, then thirty-four years of age, was ordained one of the newly-organized quorum of the Twelve Apostles; he having been previously designated by a special revelation, that Smith pretended to obtain. Under the hands of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon, ALL OF WHOM HAVE SUBSEQUENTLY APOSTASIZED, Brigham was ordained and set apart to his office.” (P 137)

“A new revelation was obtained, and Brigham was commanded to makle his home in this State of Missouri. Thomas B. Marsh, THE PRESIDENT OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES, HAD APOSTASIZED, finding Mormonism too bad a faith, or Smith too bad a Prophet.” (P 138)

“Orson Hyde, the present “PRESIDENT OF THE TWELVE,” HAD APOSTASIZED.” (P 139)

“W. W. Phelps, the present Mormon devil, almanac maker, “Brigham’s jester,” etc., had made affidavits against the Church. The Pratts were wavering; Dr. Arvard, a prominent member of the Danite band, had exposed the hidden machinery of Mormonism.” (P 139)(Can you say “apostasy” ???)

“Although it is, and always has been, Mormon policy that there should be but one head, and he the all in all of the Church; yet, in April, 1843, Brigham was possessed of influence sufficient to even grapple with Smith, as to the trustworthiness of the Twelve. Smith, who had trained Brigham, had to yield to the pupil he had educated.” (P 140) (Shades of APOSTASY)

“Brigham came hurriedly to Nauvoo-and now came the tug of war-convinced of his right to lead the people. O how easy it is to be convinced of what is to one’s interest! Hie called his quorum and the people together; ran Sidney Rigdon into the earth completely; broke up his organizations; denounced his revelations as from the devil; crushed his influence; cut off himself and adherents; cursed him; “handed him over to the buffetings of Satan for a thousand years,” and was chosen President by an overwhelming majority. Hie did not stay to reason with the minority, but cut them all off at once. The Church was going to ruin; a thousand divisions threatened to tear it piecemeal. Four claimants to Smith’s position appeared, and each had his followers among the people.” (P 141) (APOSTASY CITY)

(John Hyde, Mormonism: its leaders and designs, 1857, Pp 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141)

[colorcountry]

My prayers are sent for your comfort, and your success! God will work through you, of that we are promised, of that we are sure.

[greyfoxx39]

Metman and his scam are gone without a trace..not even a blue page that I can find.

Metmom alerted me to him bouncing around on other threads. Leads me to wonder who he was and what he was trying to pull.

Oh well, he was treated with respect on this thread...probably pretty boring for him ;)

[colorcountry]

God can use even the wicked things of this world for His purposes.....and so, like I said, He WILL use metman, of that I am sure! ,-)

[metmom]

Trolls should be more creative when they try to impersonate someone.