Posted on 12/10/2008 8:18:42 AM PST by Alex Murphy
I don’t blame anyone for taking advantage of the break, but the child tax credits are a subsidy from the childless to those who have children. It works that way with property taxes for schools, too.
I don't worship government, but I don't worship breeding for its own sake either.
And as soon as you put those kids names down on a tax form and take breaks from them, it became the government's business, in at least a small way. The same is true when they inhale resources paid for by those who aren't stuffing the schools full of offspring, as well.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Cheers and another Guinness for all. From the mother of five children and nine grandchildren..........one of them a most lovable Down syndrome baby!
People like this family and many other families (Catholic included) are the answer to our country’s problems. God bless them all.
People like this family and many other families (Catholic included) are the answer to our country’s problems. God bless them all.
I can trace my Irish back to 1650 when a young Christian ancestor went suddenly sane, and left Englnad — and the persecution of the Crown — for a congregation of Christians at Lurgan that came to be called “quakers.” That’s my paternal grandmother’s family.
I’ve not been able to trace my paternal grandfather past his grandfather, who was a plasterer in Illinois in the mid-1800’s, but his physical features argue strongly that he descended from either the Irish or Welsh.
Upon those credentials, in whatever degree it is meaningful, I’d be blessed to have you for a “spud brother”.
Yea, I know genetics says my Irish is wearing thin, but I like to think that, as one may well expect of them, the Irish genes have taken matters into their own hands, and have utterly routed the statistics.
So here’s a family of six-going-on-seven who’ll stand in the teeth of death to save civilization. AGAIN.
Up the ale, and down the hatch! The favor of The Almighty be upon ye, and the fire of His wrath upon thine enemies!
All income tax provisions affect some groups more than others. Often that’s the intention of the law’s supporters; other times they’re shocked, shocked! that people respond to monetary incentives. I’m a Fair Tax supporter, myself, having converted from the Armey flat-tax because a consumption-based tax would make it irrelevant whether income were reported by the payer or recipient.
I apologize if I mischaracterized your post (late night posting ...). It’s very annoying when people say that others should plan their lives in order to be an “average” family under the tax code. (I’m not saying that’s what you meant, but when the Duggars’ baby is born, people will be saying that.) Nobody says you shouldn’t buy a house because mortgage interest is deductible. And private schooling families, including homeschoolers, pay property tax (and sales tax) to support schools they don’t use.
Again, sorry if I seemed overwrought at you. I carefully aimed my bazooka at the article’s author, and only caught your post on the periphery because it was recent. Happy Thursday!
Thank you, Frank, for keeping up the side! We’ll see you in the foxhole - make sure it’s roomy :-). You bring the Guinness, and we’ll provide the Latin American food and our repertoire of war ballads (and Jimmy Buffet favorites). “For the rifle, oh the rifle, in our hands will prove no trifle!”
Thank you all for your kind responses! Send Frank the bill for the Guinness, since he’s the Irishman.
Pal, you are wearing very thin here. I see you reside in New York. Then you reside in a state that once had "boat loads" of Irish nuns and priests who instituted schools, hospitals and orphanages by the thousands in the name of Jesus Christ and for Charity. They never expected repayment in this life, but did it, "In His Name." My aunt was such a one, worked 53 years as a nurse and worked among the poorest of the poor. Now that the Catholic School system is collapsing "big time," liberals are upset about dumping all these "Papist" kids into the public school system. This is despite the fact that for the past quarter century, many of those kids educated, were non-Catholics and the money was funded by Catholics.
I wish the Catholic Church had never accepted IRS tax exemptions. It has only allowed the state to dictate to us. On that you have a point. But, when the Catholic schools and hospitals start to close in your area, when Catholics who paid tuition AND taxes for public education begin to send their kids to public schools, I will be interested in the cries of "how do we build more schools?"
I am from a family that has educated virtually all of their children in the parochial system. Now, with the loss of nuns and increasing costs, those schools are closing. Let's see what the societal costs will be.
Finally, may God bless Sr. Clarissa and all the other sisters who had the patience to put up with me and who must now have a high seat in heaven. Like my aunt, I'm sure their earthly possessions were enough to fit in one small box. Their "other earthly possessions" must be beyond imagining, however.
End of rant
-30-
Mod, the rant really IS ended. I will not revisit this again, nor address any “ad hominems” an any subjects.
F
Eighteen? I would imagine that she's going to be a figurehead grandmother when the grandkids come. I can't imagine that she's going to be able to "spoil" all of them, too!
God has indeed blessed them.
Right. She won’t have time to spoil or smother them, because she barely has time for them at all! With seven kids, I barely have time to “spoil” mine, but thankfully, most of them are older now, which is why I have time to play here. :)
Wow. Great rant. :)
The Duggars are completely self-supporting and totally debt free. They should be the example to all of us — regardless of how many children we choose to have — of how to live free of government intervention and how to stay out of debt.
I think people criticize them out of their own insecurities and guilt over the kind of choices they make for themselves. Most of us, frankly, are just too self-centered and self-serving to imagine WHY they would want to keep growing their family. I’ve watched their program on TV many times. I see authenticity in their attitudes and actions, in the way they care for each other. I don’t think they are “putting on” for the cameras. The logistics alone required to function daily puts most of us to shame, the way they cooperate with each other and simplify life so they can be free of turmoil and conflict.
It’s quite a template for Christians, especially.
I think all education should be private - paid by the consumer or private charity. While it’s clear that “the state” has an interest in an educated citizenry, it’s not nearly as clear that the state is capable of advancing that goal better than a purely private system would.
But more to the point of the present discussion, it’s impossible to calculate for a whole class of people, or even for individuals or families, their net tax contribution or withdrawal over the whole array of Federal, local, and state taxes. The Duggars, for example, receive a certain tax benefit from the child tax credit (although not 18 x the credit amount, because there are income cutoffs). However, they don’t have a mortgage, having saved to pay cash for their house, and they don’t use a child-care credit. It’s possible that they don’t itemize a deduction for their tithes; some very strict Protestants don’t. So how their income tax situation nets out, I don’t know.
Any homeschooling or private school family pays county taxes, especially property taxes, but doesn’t use the government’s schools. I suppose, after 5 years of paying into this particular state/county’s education pot, we’re finally getting some benefit because the state and county subsidize the community college Anoreth attends (and for which we also pay tuition). Only a fraction of what it would cost if all eight attended government grade schools, though, and “the public” will get it back in service when she goes into the military or police force.
Forgot where I was going with this post! Maybe my point is that people who have a purely emotional objection to someone else’s way of life often attempt to frame it in public-finance terms, even though making those calculations is difficult or impossible even with complete information. Also that people who don’t want to pay for the education of others’ children should (first) vote against education funding at every opportunity (such as bond elections), and also take their own children, if any, out of government schools, so as not to be hypocritical.
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