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Catholic Church Challenges Protestants on why they worship on Sunday
Biblstudy.org ^ | Unknown | Unknown

Posted on 09/19/2008 8:23:08 PM PDT by DouglasKC

Catholic Church Challenges Protestants on why they worship
on Sunday when the correct Biblical day is Saturday
Part 1


Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.

Over one hundred years ago the Catholic Mirror ran a series of articles discussing the right of the Protestant churches to worship on Sunday. The articles stressed that unless one was willing to accept the authority of the Catholic Church to designate the day of worship, the Christian should observe Saturday. Those articles are presented here in their entirety.


THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH

THE GENUINE OFFSPRING OF THE UNION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HIS SPOUSE. THE CLAIMS OF PROTESTANTISM TO ANY PART THEREIN PROVED TO BE GROUNDLESS, SELF-CONTRADICTORY, AND SUICIDAL


[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 2, 1893]

Our attention has been called to the above subject in the past week by the receipt of a brochure of twenty-one pages, published by the International Religious Liberty Association, entitled, "Appeal and Remonstrance," embodying resolutions adopted the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventists (Feb. 24, 1893). The resolutions criticize and censure, with much acerbity, the action of the United States Congress, and of the Supreme Court, for the invading the rights of the people by closing the World's Fair on Sunday.

 

The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of the day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, "Seventh-day Adventists." Their cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New Testaments, literally obeyed by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day, and indorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God whilst on earth.

Per contra, the Protestants of the world, the Adventists excepted, with the same Bible as their cherished and sole infallible teacher, by their practice, since their appearance in the sixteenth century, with the time-honored practice of the Jewish people before their eyes, have rejected the day named for His worship by God, and assumed, in apparent contradiction of His command, a day for His worship never once referred to for that purpose, in the pages of that Sacred Volume.

What Protestant pulpit does not ring almost every Sunday with loud and impassioned invectives against Sabbath violation? Who can forget the fanatical clamor of the Protestant ministers throughout the length and breadth of the land against opening the gates of the World's Fair on Sunday? the thousands of petitions, signed by millions, to save the Lord's Day from desecration? Surely, such general and widespread excitement and noisy remonstrance could not have existed without the strongest grounds for such animated protests.

And when quarters were assigned at the World's Fair to the various sects of Protestantism for the exhibition of articles, who can forget the emphatic expressions of virtuous and conscientious indignation exhibited by our Presbyterian brethren, as soon as they learned of the decision of the Supreme Court not to interfere in the Sunday opening? The newspapers informed us that they flatly refused to utilize the space accorded them, or open their boxes, demanding the right to withdraw the articles, in rigid adherence to their principles, and thus decline all contact with the sacrilegious and Sabbath-breaking Exhibition.

Doubtless, our Calvinistic brethren deserved and shared the sympathy of all the other sects, who, however, lost the opportunity of posing as martyrs in vindication of the Sabbath observance.

They thus became a "spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men," although their Protestant brethren, who failed to share the monopoly, were uncharitably and enviously disposed to attribute their steadfast adherence to religious principle, to Pharisaical pride and dogged obstinacy.

Purpose of Article

Our purpose in throwing off this article, is to shed such light on this all-important question (for were the Sabbath question to be removed from the Protestant pulpit, the sects would feel lost, and the preachers be deprived of their "Cheshire cheese") that our readers may be able to comprehend the question in all its bearings, and thus reach a clear conviction.

The Christian world is, morally speaking, united on the question and practice of worshiping God on the first day of the week.

The Israelites, scattered all over the earth, keep the last day of the week sacred to the worship of the Deity. In this particular, the Seventh-day Adventists (a sect of Christians numerically few) have also selected the same day.

[Note: There have always been Sabbath keepers (other than the Seventh Day Adventists (SDA's)) in the world since the First century A.D. Today, not only do SDA's number in the millions, but there are thousands of churches, groups and home fellowships that keep a Saturday Sabbath. ]

Israelites and Adventists both appeal to the Bible for the divine command, persistently obliging the strict observance of Saturday.

The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old: viz., an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher, is consistent in both parts, that the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The Gospels plainly evidence to him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found.

[Note: Did you miss that? The above paragraph stated that Jesus, the Savior of Mankind, and those He taught (the Apostles) kept a Saturday Sabbath!]

The Adventists, therefore, in common with Israelites, derive their belief from the Old Testament, which position is confirmed by the New Testament, indorsing fully by the life and practice of the Redeemer and His apostles the teaching of the Sacred Word for nearly a century of the Christian era.

Numerically considered, the Seventh-day Adventists form an insignificant portion of the Protestants population of the earth, but, as the question is not one of numbers, but of truth, and right, a strict sense of justice forbids the condemnation of this little sect without a calm and unbiased investigation; this is none of our funeral.

[Note: We do well to take to heart what was written above. It is not how many people believe in something (like Sunday worship), but what is the TRUTH!]

The Protestant world has been, from its infancy, in the sixteenth century, in thorough accord with the Catholic Church, in keeping "holy," not Saturday, but Sunday. The discussion of the grounds that led to this unanimity of sentiment and practice of over 300 years, must help toward placing Protestantism on a solid basis in this particular, should the arguments in favor of its position overcome those furnished by the Israelites an Adventists, the Bible, the sole recognized teacher of both litigants, being the umpire and witness. If however, on the other hand, the latter furnish arguments, incontrovertible by the great mass of Protestants, both cases of litigants, appealing to their common teacher, the Bible, the great body of Protestants, so far from clamoring, as they do with vigorous pertinacity for the strict keeping of Sunday, have no other [recourse] left than the admission that they have been teaching and practising what is Scripturally false for over three centuries, by adopting the teaching and practice of what they have always pretended to believe an apostate church, contrary to every warrant and teaching of sacred Scripture. To add to the intensity of this Scriptural and unpardonable blunder, it involves one of the most positive and emphatic commands of God to His servant, man: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

No Protestant living today has ever yet obeyed that command, preferring to follow the apostate church referred to than his teacher the Bible, which, from Genesis to Revelation, teaches no other doctrine, should the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists be correct. Both sides appeal to the Bible as their "infallible" teacher. Let the Bible decide whether Saturday or Sunday be the day enjoined by God. One of the two bodies must be wrong, and, whereas a false position on this all-important question involves terrible penalties, threatened by God Himself, against the transgressor of this "perpetual covenant," we shall enter on the discussion of the merits of the arguments wielded by both sides. Neither is the discussion of this paramount subject above the capacity of ordinary minds, nor does it involve extraordinary study. It resolves itself into a few plain questions easy of solution:

  1. Which day of the week does the Bible enjoin to be kept holy?
  2. Has the New Testament modified by precept or practice the original command?
  3. Have Protestants, since the sixteenth century, obeyed the command of God by keeping "holy" the day enjoined by their infallible guide and teacher, the Bible? and if not, why not?

To the above three questions we pledge ourselves to furnish as many intelligent answers, which cannot fail to vindicate the truth and uphold the deformity of error.


[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 9, 1893]

"But faith, fanatic faith, one wedded fast To some dear falsehood, hugs it to the last."

Moore.

Conformably to our promise in our last issue, we proceed to unmask one of the most flagrant errors and most unpardonable inconsistencies of the Bible rule of faith. Lest, however, we be misunderstood, we deem it necessary to premise that Protestantism recognizes no rule of faith, no teacher, save the "infallible Bible." As the Catholic yields his judgment in spiritual matters implicitly, and with the unreserved confidence, to the voice of his church, so, too, the Protestant recognizes no teacher but the Bible. All his spirituality is derived from its teachings. It is to him the voice of God addressing him through his sole inspired teacher. It embodies his religion, his faith, and his practice. The language of Chillingworth, "The Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible, is the religion of Protestants," is only one form of the same idea multifariously convertible into other forms, such as "the Book of God," "the Charter of Our Salvation," "the Oracle of Our Christian Faith," "God's Text-Book to the race of Mankind," etc., etc. It is, then, an incontrovertible fact that the Bible alone is the teacher of Protestant Christianity. Assuming this fact, we will now proceed to discuss the merits of the question involved in our last issue.

Recognizing what is undeniable, the fact of a direct contradiction between the teaching and practice of Protestant Christianity — the Seventh-day Adventists excepted — on the one hand, and that of the Jewish people on the other, both observing different days of the week for the worship of God, we will proceed to take the testimony of the teacher common to both claimants, the Bible. The first expression with which we come in contact in the Sacred Word, is found in Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day He [God] rested from all His work which He had made." The next reference to this matter is to be found in Exodus 20, where God commanded the seventh day to be kept, because He had himself rested from the work of creation on that day; and the sacred text informs us that for that reason He desired it kept, in the following words; "wherefore, the Lord blessed the seventh day and sanctified it." (1) Again we read in chapter 31, verse 15: "Six days you shall do work; in the seventh day is the Sabbath, the rest holy to the Lord;" sixteenth verse: "it is an everlasting covenant," "and a perpetual sign," "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh He ceased from work."

[Note: Scriptures quoted throughout these editorials are from the Douay, or Catholic, Version of the Bible]

Saturday always the Sabbath

In the Old Testament, reference is made one hundred and twenty-six times to the Sabbath, and all these texts conspire harmoniously in voicing the will of God commanding the seventh day to be kept, because God Himself first kept it, making it obligatory on all as "a perpetual covenant." Nor can we imagine any one foolhardy enough to question the identity of Saturday with the Sabbath or seventh day, seeing that the people of Israel have been keeping the Saturday from the giving of the law, A.M. 2514 to A.D. 1893, a period of 3383 years. With the example of the Israelites before our eyes today, there is no historical fact better established than that referred to; viz., that the chosen people of God, the guardians of the Old Testament, the living representatives of the only divine religion hitherto, had for a period of 1490 years anterior to Christianity, preserved the weekly practice the living tradition of the correct interpretation of the special day of the week, Saturday, to be kept "holy to the Lord," which tradition they have extended by their own practice to an additional period of 1893 years more, thus covering the full extent of the Christian dispensation. We deem it necessary to be perfectly clear on this point, for reasons that will appear more fully hereafter. The Bible — the Old Testament — confirmed by the living tradition of a weekly practice for 3383 years by the chosen people of God, teaches, then, with absolute certainty, that God had, Himself, named the day to be "kept holy to Him",— that the day was Saturday, and that any violation of that command was punishable with death. "Keep you My Sabbath, for it is holy unto you; he that shall profane it shall be put to death; he that shall do any work in it, his soul shall perish in the midst of his people." Exodus 31:14.

[Note: In other words, the people of Israel (made up of 12 tribes--one of which is Judah, from which the term "Jew" comes from) anciently maintained the correct day of the Sabbath--and the Jews (who did not lose their identity) to this day STILL keep the correct time of God's Sabbath given to them through Moses! Time has not been "lost"--we know that Saturday IS God's Sabbath Day! ]

It is impossible to realize a more severe penalty than that so solemnly uttered by God Himself in the above text, on all who violate a command referred to no less than one hundred and twenty-six times in the old law. The ten commandments of the Old Testament are formally impressed on the memory of the child of the Biblical Christian as soon as possible, but there is not one of the ten made more emphatically familiar, both in Sunday School and pulpit, than that of keeping "holy" the Sabbath day.

Having secured the absolute certainty the will of God as regards the day to be kept holy, from His Sacred Word, because He rested on that day, which day is confirmed to us by the practice of His chose people for thousands of years, we are naturally induced to inquire when and where God changed the day for His worship; for it is patent to the world that a change of day has taken place, and inasmuch as no indication of such change can be found within the pages of the Old Testament, nor in the practice of the Jewish people who continue for nearly nineteen centuries of Christianity obeying the written command, we must look to the exponent of the Christian dispensation; viz., the New Testament, for the command of God canceling the old Sabbath, Saturday.

Investigating the Sabbath in the New Testament

We now approach a period covering little short of nineteen centuries, and proceed to investigate whether the supplemental divine teacher — the New Testament — contains a decree canceling the mandate of the old law, and, at the same time, substituting a day for the divinely instituted Sabbath of the old law, viz., Saturday; for, inasmuch as Saturday was the day kept and ordered to be kept by God, divine authority alone, under the form of a canceling decree, could abolish the Saturday covenant, and another divine mandate, appointing by name another day to be kept "holy," other than Saturday, is equally necessary to satisfy the conscience of the Christian believer. The Bible being the only teacher recognized by the Biblical Christian, the Old Testament failing to point out a change of day, and yet another day than Saturday being kept "holy" by the Biblical world, it is surely incumbent on the reformed Christian to point out in the pages of the New Testament the new divine decree repealing that of Saturday and substituting that of Sunday, kept by the Biblicals since the dawn of the Reformation.

Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, we find the Sabbath referred to sixty-one times. We find, too, that the Saviour invariably selected the Sabbath (Saturday) to teach in the synagogues and work miracles. The four Gospels refer to the Sabbath (Saturday) fifty-one times.

In one instance the Redeemer refers to Himself as "the Lord of the Sabbath," as mentioned by Matthew and Luke, (2) but during the whole record of His life, whilst invariably keeping and utilizing the day (Saturday), He never once hinted at a desire to change it. His apostles and personal friends afford to us a striking instance of their scrupulous observance of it after His death, and, whilst His body was yet in tomb, Luke (23:56) informs us: "And they returned and prepared spices and ointments, and rested on the sabbath day according to the commandment." "but on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came, bringing the spices they had prepared." The "spices" and "ointments" had been prepared Good Friday evening, because "the Sabbath drew near." Verse 54. This action on the part of the personal friends of the Saviour, proves beyond contradiction that after His death they kept "holy" the Saturday, and regarded the Sunday as any other day of the week. Can anything, therefore, be more conclusive than the apostles and the holy women never knew any Sabbath but Saturday, up to the day of Christ's death?

We now approach the investigation of this interesting question for the next thirty years, as narrated by the evangelist, St. Luke, in his Acts of the Apostles. Surely some vestige of the canceling act can be discovered in the practice of the Apostles during that protracted period.

[Note (2): It is also referred to in Mark 2:28.]

But, alas! we are once more doomed to disappointment. Nine (3) times do we find the Sabbath referred to in the Acts, but it is the Saturday (the old Sabbath). Should our readers desire the proof, we refer them to chapter and verse in each instance. Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44. Once more, Acts 15:21; again, Acts 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and Greeks." thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus, it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour or his Apostles with the original Sabbath, but on the contrary, an entire acquiescence in the original arrangement; nay a plenary indorsement by Him, whilst living; and an unvaried, active participation in the keeping of that day and not other by the apostles, for thirty years after His death, as the Acts of the Apostles has abundantly testified to us.

[Note (3): This should be eight.]

Hence the conclusion is inevitable; viz., that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists have exclusive weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self-defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday. More anon.

[Note: Notice what was just stated. Those who "follow the Bible as their guide" and keep the Seventh Day Sabbath have the clear weight of scripture behind them!!]


[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 16, 1893.]

When his satanic majesty, who was "a murder from the beginning," "and the father of lies," undertook to open the eyes of our first mother, Eve, by stimulating her ambition, "You shall be as gods, knowing good and evil," his action was but the first of many plausible and successful efforts employed later, in the seduction of millions of her children. Like Eve, they learn too late, alas! the value of the inducements held out to allure her weak children from allegiance to God. Nor does the subject matter of this discussion form an exception to the usual tactics of his sable majesty.

Over three centuries since, he plausibly represented to a large number of discontented and ambitious Christians the bright prospect of the successful inauguration of a "new departure," by the abandonment of the Church instituted by the Son of God, as their teacher, and the assumption of a new teacher — the Bible alone — as their newly fledged oracle.

The sagacity of the evil one foresaw but the brilliant success of this maneuver. Nor did the result fall short of his most sanguine expectations.

A bold and adventurous spirit was alone needed to head the expedition. Him his satanic majesty soon found in the apostate monk, Luther, who himself repeatedly testifies to the close familiarity that existed between his master and himself, in his "Table talk," and other works published in 1558, at Wittenberg, under the inspection of Melancthon. His colloquies with Satan on various occasions, are testified to by Luther himself — a witness worthy of all credibility. What the agency of the serpent tended so effectually to achieve in the garden, the agency of Luther achieved in the Christian world. (4)

"Give them a pilot to their wandering fleet,
Bold in his art, and tutored to deceit;
Whose hand adventurous shall their helm misguide
To hostile shores, or 'whelm them in the tide."

As the end proposed to himself by the evil one in his raid on the church of Christ was the destruction of Christianity, we are now engaged in sifting the means adopted by him to insure his success therein. So far, they have been found to be misleading, self-contradictory, and fallacious. We will now proceed with the further investigations of this imposture.

[Note (4): Of course, one would expect a Catholic to demonize someone such as Luther, a person who fought for reforms in the church. If Luther had continued his reforms by accepting the Bible's Sabbath day, papists would not now be taunting "Protestants" with the inconsistency of professing to accept the Bible alone yet following the traditions of the Catholic Church in regards to God's day of worship.]

Did Jesus change the Sabbath Day?

Having proved to a demonstration that the Redeemer, in no instance, had, during the period of His life, deviated from the faithful observance of the Sabbath (Saturday), referred to by the four evangelists fifty-one times, although He had designated Himself "Lord of the Sabbath," He never having once, by command or practice, hinted at a desire on His part to change the day by the substitution of another and having called special attention to the conduct of the apostles and the holy women, the very evening of His death, securing beforehand spices and ointments to be used in embalming His body the morning after the Sabbath (Saturday), as St. Luke so clearly informs us (Luke 24:1), thereby placing beyond peradventure, the divine action and will of the Son of God during life by keeping the Sabbath steadfastly; and having called attention to the action of His living representatives after his death, as proved by St. Luke; having also placed before our readers the indisputable fact that the apostles for the following thirty years (Acts) never deviated from the practice of their divine Master in this particular, as St. Luke (Acts 18:4) assures us: "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogues every Sabbath [Saturday], and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." The Gentile converts were, as we see from the text, equally instructed with the Jews, to keep the Saturday, having been converted to Christianity on that day, "the Jews and the Greeks" collectively.

Having also called attention to the texts of the Acts bearing on the exclusive use of the Sabbath by the Jews and Christians for thirty years after the death of the Saviour as the only day of the week observed by Christ and His apostles, which period exhausts the inspired record, we now proceed to supplement our proofs that the Sabbath (Saturday) enjoyed this exclusive privilege, by calling attention to every instance wherein the sacred record refers to the first day of the week.

Read Part 2 of this Article


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; protestant; sabbath; sunday
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Just saying....:-)
1 posted on 09/19/2008 8:23:08 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

My two cents worth. Being Jewish, the Sabbath was for Jews. Jesus came and Sunday (Son Day) became a Christian day to separate it from the traditional Sabbath.

IMHO .... Jane


2 posted on 09/19/2008 8:26:20 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: All
Don't forget Part two here
3 posted on 09/19/2008 8:27:58 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: SkyDancer
My two cents worth. Being Jewish, the Sabbath was for Jews. Jesus came and Sunday (Son Day) became a Christian day to separate it from the traditional Sabbath.

By tradition...

4 posted on 09/19/2008 8:28:43 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

When the Roman Church stops having their large masses on Sunday, then maybe they can start rebuking the rest of Christendom for Sunday services.


5 posted on 09/19/2008 8:29:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DouglasKC

Actually, I don’t think God really cares what day we worship. He’s probably more concerned about the different denominations attacking each other in the name of Jesus.


6 posted on 09/19/2008 8:29:34 PM PDT by Radl (rtr)
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To: DouglasKC

Yes, by tradition - isn’t that what Hevya said? “Fiddler On The Roof” ....


7 posted on 09/19/2008 8:29:52 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: SkyDancer
absolutely....Sunday was picked to differentiate from the Jews....my brother told me that and he is never wrong....

some Protestants get uppity about Catholics going to church on Saturday evening.....

8 posted on 09/19/2008 8:30:27 PM PDT by cherry
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To: DouglasKC

Speaking of the Bible... Why did the Protestants Change the Bible by removing 7 books? to mimic the Jews, who removed the same 7 books because they were in Greek and not hebrew?

hmmm


9 posted on 09/19/2008 8:31:58 PM PDT by philly-d-kidder (Kuwait where the American troops are always Welcome..)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I think you got it wrong....many Protestants criticize Catholics for Saturday services in the evening....I’v never heard any Catholic criticize them for not having Saturday services...


10 posted on 09/19/2008 8:32:11 PM PDT by cherry
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To: DouglasKC

Also, the CARM web site has a good article discussing why Sunday worship is not a commandment violation.

http://www.carm.org/questions/sabbath.htm


11 posted on 09/19/2008 8:32:23 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
When the Roman Church stops having their large masses on Sunday, then maybe they can start rebuking the rest of Christendom for Sunday services.

The premise of the articles aren't that they're ashamed of Sunday worship. The premise is that Catholicism established Sunday worship and that the Protestant claim of Sunday worship being biblical is flawed.

12 posted on 09/19/2008 8:32:45 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: cherry

Be specific - what denominations are doing this? I have never heard any criticism in mine, we have a service on Thursday night, Saturday, and two on Sunday. For our church we had people who worked weekends and could not make it to either Saturday or Sunday, and Thursday worked out for them.


13 posted on 09/19/2008 8:34:31 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DouglasKC

weren’t you part of the Garner Ted Armstrong org? is this artcle part of that same line of teaching?


14 posted on 09/19/2008 8:34:54 PM PDT by fishtank (FIRST defeat Imam Mahdi Obama. - THEN resist McCain. -- A good plan.)
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To: DouglasKC

Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

It doesn’t matter what day you worship. In fact, it should be every day. We like to have family worship every day, and we meet with other families on Sundays as well as other days during the week, including Saturdays.

The reason most folks meet for communal worship on Sunday is that it’s a tradition that started long before Constantine created what emerged as the Roman Catholic Church.

That institution gave us the Dark Ages, Torquemada, the Medici’s, the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, the burning alive of countless numbers of “heretics”, the merciless torture and murders of millions of men, women, and even children.

The Reformation brought us the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.

Interestingly, Renaissance means “Rebirth”.

Jesus said, “Ye must be born again.”

Now, I know a lot of fine Catholic Christians who live by the Sermon on the Mount and would not participate in the hideous behavior exhibited by the institutioinal Roman Church in times past. And certainly, the Roman Church does not practice these things today.

But it would be better if they did not tout themselves as the only Christian Community acceptable to God. There is too much evidence to the contrary.


15 posted on 09/19/2008 8:35:20 PM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: DouglasKC

How does Barnabas Ministries differ from the other Herbet Amstrong offspring?


16 posted on 09/19/2008 8:35:26 PM PDT by fso301
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To: DouglasKC

Read the CARM article. It is not flawed. The apostles spell it out across various books.


17 posted on 09/19/2008 8:35:41 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: DouglasKC
God gave ten rules.

One of them was “Commemorate the Sabbath day and keep it holy.”

The Sabbath day is Saturday.

It is to the shame of the Catholic Church that they thought to change it to Sunday, the fact that Protestants followed their error hardly absolves them of changing it for political reasons in the first place.

I love and admire the Catholic Church, but they don't exactly have a leg to stand on in this issue.

18 posted on 09/19/2008 8:36:23 PM PDT by allmendream (Sa-RAH! Sa-RAH! Sa-RAH! RAH RAH RAH! McCain/Palin2008)
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To: DouglasKC

weren’t you part of the Garner Ted Armstrong org? is this artcle part of that same line of teaching?


19 posted on 09/19/2008 8:37:01 PM PDT by fishtank (FIRST defeat Imam Mahdi Obama. - THEN resist McCain. -- A good plan.)
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To: DouglasKC

Christians, Catholic and Protestant, are not bound by the Old Law, but the New.

Rom. 14:5-6, “One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”

Just an example. Here’s a great explanation, if you’re interested.

http://www.carm.org/questions/sabbath.htm


20 posted on 09/19/2008 8:37:51 PM PDT by DRey
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To: DouglasKC

I worship in church on Wednesday night, too. Am I going to hell?

In fact, a true Christian will worship every day. Right?


21 posted on 09/19/2008 8:38:54 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (The GOP may not be the party of "McRomney" after all.)
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To: DouglasKC

The headline is not accurate.


22 posted on 09/19/2008 8:41:31 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: DouglasKC

That’s ridiculous.

First, the Catholics so badly misused authority that it lead to the Protestant revolution, so if you want to call it a rejection of Catholic authority, so be it.

Second, It’s clear in the New Testament that Christians celebrated the New Lords day.

Act 20:7 ¶ And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Cr 16:2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Third, The historian Justin Martyr recorded that Early Christians were worshiping on Sunday. So it’s clear from historical non-church sources that the early church had adopted Sunday, long before Rome took control.


23 posted on 09/19/2008 8:44:02 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Radl

I think God did make the Sabbath as a day of rest. The New Testament is clear that some men “regard ALL days the same”, and I suppose that’s where I fall for the most part. God wants us, I think, to worship and talk with Him every day. Having Saturday for a total day of rest would be fine with me, but my husband is very much a strict Southern Baptist for that. Plus, I know that my ability to KEEP any day perfectly is very limited. When he asks me to help him on any day, I help him. Things have gotten muddled up over the past 2,000 years, thanks to the interference of man. God help us. Christ is the only one who can fix that problem.


24 posted on 09/19/2008 8:45:50 PM PDT by Twinkie (I'll see you one Hillary and raise you a SARAH!)
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To: Radl
Actually, I don’t think God really cares what day we worship. He’s probably more concerned about the different denominations attacking each other in the name of Jesus.

Biblically he cares very much about commandment breaking. Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Although I don't think God enjoys Christian brothers fighting, I do think God is pleased when heresy and false teachings are brought to light.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

There's a myriad of wrong teachings by major Christian churches. Homosexuality as acceptable Christian behavior comes to mind. Do we not speak out on such issues in the name of brotherly love?

25 posted on 09/19/2008 8:47:19 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

Because we can.


26 posted on 09/19/2008 8:51:26 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (Kicking and Screaming into the Kingdom of Heaven!)
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To: fishtank
weren’t you part of the Garner Ted Armstrong org?

Nope, never. I am a non-denominational Christian who DOES though worship on the weekly sabbath, what some call the Jewish sabbath. I attend services with a United Church of God congregation. And if I were it still wouldn't change the articles content.

is this artcle part of that same line of teaching?

This article is primarily (99.9%) an article from a 1893 Catholic publication. If you find fault with it it's the fault of the 1893 authors.

27 posted on 09/19/2008 8:55:02 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: Colonel_Flagg
I worship in church on Wednesday night, too. Am I going to hell?

Don't ask me. I can't discern your spiritual state.

In fact, a true Christian will worship every day. Right?

Sure. But the bible specifically says that those who worship God, the creator God, should congregate, convocate, for worship on his sabbath day:

Lev 23:3 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.

28 posted on 09/19/2008 8:59:39 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: SkyDancer
The author of this article has not visited many Protestant churches, at least not recently. I have belonged to four Protestant churches and visited several others over the course of 50 years. I cannot recall more than two or three - a half dozen at most - sermons condemning violations of the Sabbath. Condemnations of this sort used to be fairly common at certain Protestant denominations in the South but not recently; and are very, very infrequent in mainline Protestant churches (especially the Episcopal Church) or in churches outside the South. These days, almost all Protestant churches have other sins to preach about.
29 posted on 09/19/2008 9:01:20 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: Petronski
The headline is not accurate.

The entire title wouldn't fit in the title section of the article posting. But the article title is the title of the article.

30 posted on 09/19/2008 9:01:36 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

There are some denominations that believe if your wife cuts her hair she is going to hell. I am sure they can find the quotes in the Bible to justify it. I have a family member who will not wear earrings but her husband and her fight like cats and dogs (but probably not on Sunday). It gets a little ridiculous.


31 posted on 09/19/2008 9:02:22 PM PDT by Radl (rtr)
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To: quadrant
The author of this article has not visited many Protestant churches, at least not recently. I have belonged to four Protestant churches and visited several others over the course of 50 years. I cannot recall more than two or three - a half dozen at most - sermons condemning violations of the Sabbath. Condemnations of this sort used to be fairly common at certain Protestant denominations in the South but not recently; and are very, very infrequent in mainline Protestant churches (especially the Episcopal Church) or in churches outside the South. These days, almost all Protestant churches have other sins to preach about.

The only part of the article not from 1893 is the first 5 or 6 lines. The rest is from 1893. So I would say the original authors haven't visited any Protestant churches in a VERY long time.

32 posted on 09/19/2008 9:03:56 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DRey
Just an example. Here’s a great explanation, if you’re interested.

I've examined many many attempts at justifying Sunday worship from scripture. The posted article and part two of the article does a pretty good job of showing how that's just not true.

For example, Romans 14 IN CONTEXT isn't talking about the sabbath. The sabbath isn't even mentioned. IN CONTEXT Romans 14 is talking about eating and drinking and days associated with certain of these practices. the verse you posted (among with many others) affirms this.

33 posted on 09/19/2008 9:07:51 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: cherry

I’m a Messianic Jew in that I believe Jesus was Messiah and will come again ... he came as a Suffering Messiah first and will return as the Conquering Messiah ... and all Israel will look upon Him and weep .....

I go to service several times a week when I can ... days of the week do not stop me from worshiping my Lord ...

I feel for those who need “special days” to go to church.

In Love,
Jane


34 posted on 09/19/2008 9:08:15 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: DouglasKC

The local Catholic parishes have a couple of Saturday masses each. One of the big issues between the Catholics and the Puritans in England was over the high view of the Lord’s day held by the Puritans. On the other hand, Calvin at one point considered moving worship to Tuesday.


35 posted on 09/19/2008 9:08:55 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: DouglasKC

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses’ law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.

1. In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase “a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day” refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word “Sabbath?” He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.

2. The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

3. The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

4. In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

5. Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.

6. There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.

7. When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.

8. The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.

9. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).

10. In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).

11. The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).

12. Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord’s Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).

So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord’s people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as “the Sabbath.”


36 posted on 09/19/2008 9:09:03 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: SkyDancer
"My two cents worth. Being Jewish, the Sabbath was for Jews."

Thank you, morah ("teacher" now or to be, as I'm a Gentile). Here's an Orthodox analysis for those who are interested.

Jews and Gentiles - the Sabbath
Rabbi Markel's Analysis


37 posted on 09/19/2008 9:09:13 PM PDT by familyop (Goy student)
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To: DouglasKC

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. That’s my answer and I’m very, very comfortable with it. God Bless.


38 posted on 09/19/2008 9:12:11 PM PDT by DRey
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To: SkyDancer
"I’m a Messianic Jew...

Well...morah-to-be, if your mother is Jewish. I'm being taught differently. You might find the site to be interesting, anyway.

NoachideInfo.org


39 posted on 09/19/2008 9:12:26 PM PDT by familyop (Goy student)
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To: DannyTN
That’s ridiculous. First, the Catholics so badly misused authority that it lead to the Protestant revolution, so if you want to call it a rejection of Catholic authority, so be it.

I'm not calling it anything. I do agree with the Catholic authors of the article though that Sunday worship was orginated by the Catholic church and is a non-biblical tradition. They would say that tradition is holy, but I would disagree with that.

The article and part two deals with each of the scriptures your posted. Here's part of it:

Once more, the Biblical apologists for the change of day call our attention to the Acts, chapter 20, verses 6 and 7: "and upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread," etc. To all appearances, the above text should furnish some consolation to our disgruntled Biblical friends, but being Marplot, we cannot allow them even this crumb of comfort. We reply by the axiom: "Quod probat nimis, probat nihil" — "What proves too much, proves nothing." Let us call attention to the same Acts 2:46: "And they, continuing daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house," etc. Who does not see at a glance that the text produced to prove the exclusive prerogative of Sunday, vanishes into thin air — an ignis fatuus — when placed in juxtaposition with the 46th verse of the same chapter? What Biblical Christian claims by this text for Sunday alone the same authority, St. Luke, informs us was common to every day of the week: "And they, continuing daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house."

AND...

The followers of the Master met "every Sabbath" to hear the word of God; the Scriptures were read "every Sabbath day." "And Paul, as his manner was to reason in the synagogue every Sabbath, interposing the same of the Lord Jesus Christ," etc. Acts 18:4. What more absurd conclusion that to infer that reading of the Scriptures, prayer, exhortation, and preaching, which formed the routine duties of every Saturday, as had been abundantly proved, were overslaughed by a request to take up a collection on another day of the week?

I think there are other arguments that can be used, but study on these for a while.

40 posted on 09/19/2008 9:16:00 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: quadrant

I have some Seventh Day Adventist friends who worship on the Sabbath (Saturday to them) - they worship the image of Jesus not the man ...it’s like some soldier who has a picture of his girlfriend posted at the end of his cot. It’s the first thing he sees in the morning and the last thing he sees at night. He comes home and here she comes running towards him, he falls at her feet and worships her shadow, not reaching out and holding her close. It’s the same thing - people in some of those religions worship the shadow of Christ but not the man .. silly, isn’t it????? So who cares when you worship Jesus - just do it ....they make so much fuss about procedure and forget the reason for why they are where they are (in church).

Respectfully Yours,
Jane


41 posted on 09/19/2008 9:19:33 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: familyop

Nice site - Thanks ....I go to several different Jewish sites ... I love to smoosh with friends there ...


42 posted on 09/19/2008 9:24:04 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: LiteKeeper
We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses’ law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.

I would venture to guess that each and everyone of these points is addressed and refuted in the article or part two of the article.

One of these points did jump out at me though:

5. Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.

The 4th commandment, the sabbath commandment, is the ONLY one of the ten commandments that gentiles were specifically told to observe:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Stranger, gentiles, non-Israelites, were specifically told to observe the Lord's sabbath when they dwelt with the Lord's people.

Many of the points merely affirm tradition because they're arguments based on tradition. For example:

12. Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord’s Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).

This is a 100% traditional argument since Jesus Christ, the Lord, nor any of the apostles ever says to "commemorate His resurrection" in scripture.

43 posted on 09/19/2008 9:26:27 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

The Catholic Church also challenges SDAs, WWCOGs, and others on why they use a New Testament whose canon was selected by the Catholic Church.


44 posted on 09/19/2008 9:26:47 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Radl
There are some denominations that believe if your wife cuts her hair she is going to hell. I am sure they can find the quotes in the Bible to justify it. I have a family member who will not wear earrings but her husband and her fight like cats and dogs (but probably not on Sunday). It gets a little ridiculous.

Well, yeah, it happens. But it was expected:

Mat 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits. Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

45 posted on 09/19/2008 9:30:34 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: Campion
The Catholic Church also challenges SDAs, WWCOGs, and others on why they use a New Testament whose canon was selected by the Catholic Church.

Sure they do. But as far as a I know none of these accept the totality of the Catholic canon as inspired.

46 posted on 09/19/2008 9:32:24 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DRey
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. That’s my answer and I’m very, very comfortable with it. God Bless.

That's not my opinion of Romans 14. That IS Romans 14. It's a chapter about eating and drinking practices and it never mentions the sabbath. There's a specific greek word that is translated "sabbath" and it's not used. There's a preponderance of verses in Romans 14 that specifically mention eating or drinking. I'm not putting any interpretation on it. I pointing out what's in the chapter. And God bless you in your studies.

47 posted on 09/19/2008 9:35:58 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

While we’re in Leviticus:

Leviticus 20:10
If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


48 posted on 09/19/2008 9:37:06 PM PDT by Henry Hnyellar
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To: PAR35
The local Catholic parishes have a couple of Saturday masses each. One of the big issues between the Catholics and the Puritans in England was over the high view of the Lord’s day held by the Puritans. On the other hand, Calvin at one point considered moving worship to Tuesday.

I did not know that. What a strange world this would be if he did. Maybe we would have 4 days weekends every week.

49 posted on 09/19/2008 9:37:48 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: Secret Agent Man
When the Roman Church stops having their large masses on Sunday, then maybe they can start rebuking the rest of Christendom for Sunday services.

I think you missed the point. It was the Catholic Church that established the tradition of Sunday service instead of celebrating the sabbath on Saturday, as was the previous tradition. Sunday worship is never mentioned in the Bible, and therefore following this Catholic tradition contridicts the Protestant argument for basing all Christian practice on written Scripture without any recourse to tradition. If the Protestants truly believe that the Word of God is completely restricted to the written Scriptures, then they would worship on Saturday, not Sunday. This is not an issue for Catholics, because Catholics hold that the Word of God includes both Scripture and tradition.
50 posted on 09/19/2008 9:38:59 PM PDT by bdeaner ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." --Mother Theresa)
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