Posted on 09/01/2008 9:48:04 AM PDT by IreneE
Global Dominionist Movement Arming for Armageddon
Arming for Armageddon: Militant Joel’s Army Followers Seek Theocracy By Casey Sanchez
“….. Tattooed across Todd Bentley’s sternum are military dog tags that read “Joel’s Army.” They’re evidence of Bentley’s generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that’s gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other “hyper-charismatic” preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel’s Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian “dominion” on non-believers.
“An end-time army has one common purpose — to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion,” Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. “The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel’s Army. … Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God’s kingdom on earth.”
Joel’s Army followers, many of them teenagers and young adults who believe they’re members of the final generation to come of age before the end of the world, are breaking away in droves from mainline Pentecostal churches. Numbering in the tens of thousands, they base their beliefs on an esoteric reading of the second chapter of the Old Testament Book of Joel, in which an avenging swarm of locusts attacks Israel. In their view, the locusts are a metaphor for Joel’s Army.
Despite their overt militancy, there’s no evidence Joel’s Army followers have committed any acts of violence. But critics warn that actual bloodletting may only be a matter of time for a movement that casts itself as God’s avenging army.
Those sounding the alarm about Joel’s Army are not secular foes of the Christian Right, few of whom are even aware of the movement or how widespread it’s become in the past decade. Instead, Joel’s Army critics are mostly conservative Christians, either neo-Pentecostals who left the movement in disgust or evangelical Christians who fear that Joel’s Army preachers are stealing their flocks, even sending spies to infiltrate their own congregations and sway their young people to heresy. And they say the movement is becoming frightening.
“The pitch and intensity of the military rhetoric of this branch of the global Dominionist movement has substantially increased since the beginning of 2008,” writes The Discernment Research Group, a Christian watchdog group that tracks what they call heresies or cults within Christianity. “One can only wonder how long before this transforms into real warfare with actual warriors.”
‘Snorting Religion’
Joel’s Army believers are hard-core Christian dominionists, meaning they believe that America, along with the rest of the world, should be governed by conservative Christians and a conservative Christian interpretation of biblical law. There is no room in their doctrine for democracy or pluralism.
Dominionism’s original branch is Christian Reconstructionism, a grim, Calvinist call to theocracy that, as Reconstructionist writer Gary North describes, wants to “get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.”
Notorious for endorsing the public execution by stoning of homosexuals and adulterers, the Christian Reconstructionist movement is far better known in secular America than Joel’s Army. That’s largely because Reconstructionists have made several serious forays into mainstream politics and received a fair amount of negative publicity as a result. Joel’s Army followers eschew the political system, believing the path to world domination lies in taking over churches, not election to public office.
Another key difference between the two branches of dominionism, which maintain a testy, arms-length relationship with one another, is Christian Reconstructionism’s buttoned-down image and heavy emphasis on Bible study, which contrasts sharply with Joel’s Army anti-intellectual distrust of biblical scholars and its unruly style.
“Some people snort cocaine, others snort religions,” Joel’s Army Pastor Roy said while ministering a morning program at Todd Bentley’s Lakeland, Fla., revival in late May.
… Snide jabs at traditional church services are fairly common at Bentley’s revivals…. Bentley is considered a prophet both by his followers and by other leaders of the Joel’s Army movement, whose adherents claim to be reviving a “five-fold ministry” of prophets, apostles, elders, pastors and teachers, as outlined in the Book of Ephesians. Not every five-fold ministry is connected to the Joel’s Army movement, but the movement has spurred an interest in modern-day apostles and prophets that’s troubling to the Assemblies of God, the world’s largest Pentecostal church, which has officially disavowed the Joel’s Army movement.
In a 2001 position paper, Assemblies of God leaders wrote that they do not recognize modern-day apostles or prophets and worried that “such leaders prefer more authoritarian structures where their own word or decrees are unchallenged.” They are right to worry. Joel’s Army followers believe that once democratic institutions are overthrown, their hierarchy of apostles and prophets will rule over the earth, with one church per city.
Warrior Nation
According to Joel’s Army doctrine, the enforcers of the five-fold ministry will be members of the final generation, for whom the landmark Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade constituted a new Passover.
“Everyone born after abortion’s legalization can consider their birth a personal invitation to take part in this great army,” writes John Crowder, another prominent Joel’s Army pastor, who bills his 2006 book, The New Mystics: How to Become Part of the Supernatural Generation, as a literal how-to guide for joining Joel’s Army.
Both Bentley and Crowder are enormously popular on the Elijah List, an online watering hole for a broad spectrum of Joel’s Army enlistees, from lightweight believers who merely share an affection for military rhetoric and pastors who dress in army camouflage (several Joel’s Army pastors are addressed by their congregants as “commandant” or “commander”) to hardliners who believe the church is called to have an active military role in end-times that have already begun. The Elijah List currently has more than 125,000 subscribers on its electronic mailing list.
Rick Joyner, a pastor whose books, The Harvest and The Call, helped popularize Joel’s Army theology by selling more than a million copies each, goes the furthest on Elijah’s List in pushing the hardliner approach. In 2006, he posted a sermon called “The Warrior Nation — The New Sound of the Church,” in which he claimed that a last-day army is now gathering and called believers “freedom fighters.”
“As the church begins to take on this resolve, they [Joel's Army churches] will start to be thought of more as military bases, and they will begin to take on the characteristics of military bases for training, equipping, and deploying effective spiritual forces,” Joyner wrote. “In time, the church will actually be organized more as a military force with an army, navy, air force, etc.”
In a sort of disclaimer, Joyner writes at one point that God’s army “will bring love, peace and stability wherever they go.” But several of his books narrate with glee what he describes as “a coming civil war within the church.” In his 1997 book The Harvest he writes: “Some pastors and leaders who continue to resist this tide of unity will be removed from their place. Some will become so hardened they will become opposers and resist God to the end.”
Two years later, in his book The Final Quest, Joyner described a vision (taken as prophecy in the Joel’s Army world, where Joyner is considered an “apostle”) of the coming Christian Civil War in which demon-possessed Christian soldiers enslave other, weaker Christians who resist them. He also describes how the hero of the novel — himself — ascends a “Holy Mountain” in order to learn new truths and to acquire new, magic weapons….
Kids on Fire
The atmosphere is less charged with violence at “The Call,” a 12-hour revival of up to 20,000 youths led by Joel’s Army pastor Lou Engle and held every summer in a major American city (this year’s event was scheduled for Washington, D.C. in August).
Attendees are called upon to fast and pray for 40 days and take up culture-war pledges to lead abstinent lives, reject pornography and fight abortion. They’re further asked to perform “identificational repentance,” lugging along family trees and genealogies to see where one of their ancestors may have enslaved or oppressed another so that they can make amends. (Many in the Joel’s Army movement believe in generational curses that must be broken by the current generation).
As even his critics note, Engle is a sweet, humble and gentle man whose persona is difficult to reconcile with his belief in an end-time army of invincible young Christian warriors. Yet while Engle is careful to avoid deploying explicit Joel’s Army rhetoric at high-profile events like The Call, when he’s speaking in smaller hyper-charismatic circles to avowed Joel’s Army followers, he can venture into bloodlust.
This March, at a “Passion for Jesus” conference in Kansas City sponsored by the International House of Prayer, or IHOP, a ministry for teenagers from the heavy metal, punk and goth scenes, Engle called on his audience for vengeance.
“I believe we’re headed to an Elijah/Jezebel showdown on the Earth, not just in America but all over the globe, and the main warriors will be the prophets of Baal versus the prophets of God, and there will be no middle ground,” said Engle. He was referring to the Baal of the Old Testament, a pagan idol whose followers were slaughtered under orders from the prophet Elijah.
“There’s an Elijah generation that’s going to be the forerunners for the coming of Jesus, a generation marked not by their niceness but by the intensity of their passion,” Engle continued. “The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force. Such force demands an equal response, and Jesus is going to make war on everything that hinders love, with his eyes blazing fire.”
Although Joel’s Army theology is mainly directed at people in their teens and early 20s via events like The Call and ministries like IHOP, sometimes the target audience is even younger. In some of the most arresting images in “Jesus Camp,” a 2006 documentary about the Kids on Fire bible camp in North Dakota, grade school-aged kids dressed in army fatigues wield swords and conduct military field maneuvers. “A lot of people die for God and they’re not afraid,” one camper told ABC News reporters in a follow-up segment.
“We’re kinda being trained to be warriors,” added another, “only in a funner way.”
Cain and the Intellectuals
Both Christian and secular critics assailed the makers of “Jesus Camp” for referring to the camp’s extremist, militant Christianity as “evangelical.” There is a name, however, that describes Kids on Fire’s agenda, if you’re familiar with their theology: Joel’s Army. Pastor Becky Fischer, who runs the camp, said that a third of the kids at her camp were under 6 years old because they are “more in touch in the supernatural” and proclaimed them to be “soldiers for God’s Army.” Her camp’s blend of end-times militancy and supernaturalism is perfectly emblematic of the Joel’s Army movement, whose adherents believe their cause is prophesied in the Old Testament chapter titled “An Army of Locusts.”The stark, evocative passages of that chapter describe a locust swarm that lays waste to Israel (to this day, the region suffers periodic locust invasions): “Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come.” As remarkable as the language is, most biblical scholars agree that it is a literal description of a locust invasion and resulting famine that occurred sometime between the 9th and 5th centuries B.C.E.
In the Book of Joel, the locust invasion is described as an omen that an Assyrian army to the north may attack Israel if it fails to repent as a nation. But nowhere is the invasion described as an army of God. According to an Assemblies of God position paper: “It is a complete misinterpretation of Scripture to find in Joel’s army of locusts a militant, victorious force attacking society and a non-cooperating Church to prepare the earth for Christ’s millennial reign.”
The story of how an ancient insect invasion came to be a rallying flag for 21st-century dominonists begins just after World War II in Canada. Out of a small town in Saskatchewan, a Pentecostal preacher named William Branham spearheaded a 1948 revival in which he claimed that his followers lived in a new biblical time of “Latter Rain.”
The most sinless and ardent of his flock would be called “Manifest Sons of God.” By the next year, the movement was so strong — and seemed so subversive to some — that the Assemblies of God banned it as a heretic cult. But Branham remained a controversial figure with a loyal following; many of his followers believed him to be the end-times prophet Elijah.
Michael Barkun, a leading scholar of radical religion, notes that in 1958, Branham began teaching “Serpent Seed” doctrine, the belief that Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain and his descendants. “Through Cain came all the smart, educated people down to the antediluvian flood — the intellectuals, bible colleges,” Branham wrote in the kind of anti-mainstream religion, anti-intellectual spirit that pervades the Joel’s Army movement to this day. “They know all their creeds but know nothing about God.”
The Gates of Hell
Branham was killed in a car accident in 1965, but his Manifest Sons of God movement, the direct predecessor of Joel’s Army, lived on within a cluster of hyper-charismatic churches. In the 1980s, Branham’s teachings took on new life at the Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), a group of popular self-styled apostles and prophets who used the Missouri church as a launching pad for national careers promoting outright Joel’s Army theology.
The Joel’s Army movement began with the 1940s preaching of William Branham, whose group was banned as heretical by the Assemblies of God.
Ernie Gruen, a local pastor who initially promoted and gave citywide credibility to KCF pastors in the early 1980s, cut his connections in 1990. Concerned about KCF’s plans to push its teachings worldwide, Gruen published a 132-page insider’s account, based on taped sermons and conversations and interviews with parents who had enrolled their kids in KCF’s Dominion school.
According to Gruen’s report, students at the school were taught that they were a “super-race” of the “elected seed” of all the best bloodlines of all generations — foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the “end-time Omega generation.”
Though he’d once promoted these doctrines himself, Gruen became convinced that the movement was turning into an end-times cult, marked by what he summarized as “spiritual threats, fears, and warnings of death,” “warning followers to beware of other Christians” and exhibiting “a ’super-race’ mentality toward the training of their children.”
When contacted by the Intelligence Report, Gruen’s spokesman said that Gruen stands by everything he published in the report but no longer grants media interviews.
The Kansas City Fellowship remains in operation and has served as a farm team for many of the all-stars of the Joel’s Army movement. Those larger-than-life figures include John Wimber, the founder of a California megachurch, The Vineyard, who, before his death in 1997, proclaimed that Joel’s Army would not only conquer the earth but defeat death itself. Lou Engle founded The Call based on the Joel’s Army visions that KCF “prophet” Bob Jones (not to be confused with Bob Jones III of Bob Jones University) received while at KCF. Mike Bickle, another KCF member, stayed in Kansas City to form the International House of Prayer.
IHOP members and other Joel’s Army adherents are well aware of how their movement is perceived by other conservative Christians.
“Today, you can type ‘Joel’s Army’ into a search engine and a thousand heresy hunter websites pop up, decrying the very mention of it,” writes John Crowder in The New Mystics. Crowder doesn’t exactly allay critic’s fears. “This is truly warfare,” he writes. “This battle is not a game. They [Joel's Army warriors] will not be on the defense; they will be on the offense — and the gates of hell will not be able to hold up against them.”
So far, few members of the secular media have taken notice of Joel’s Army, even as they report on Protestant dominionists like Pat Robertson or the more outrageous calls for the stoning of gays and lesbians emanating from Reconstructionist circles. There are exceptions, however. On the DailyKos, a well-read, politically liberal blog, a diarist has been blogging for two years about her experiences as a walkaway from a Joel’s Army church. She writes under a pseudonym out of fear of physical reprisals.
She may have real cause for concern. As Wimber, the late founder of The Vineyard, put it in one of his most famous and fiery sermons, one that is still frequently cited by Joel’s Army followers: “Those in this army will have His kind of power. … Anyone who wants to harm them must die.”
Miriam, Heres another good one for you to read!
http://www.derekpgilbert.com/?p=2775
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
Well, there you have it. THIS is what the NARbots are really about.
Religious Nazis who will be the backbone of the Anti Christ’s church.
This is the warning of why the Narbots teach imprecatory prayer.
Comment by AriseMyLove | August 29, 2008
P.S. And if they are such “Elijahs” against the “Jezebels” how come NOT ONE OF THEM SAW TODD BENTLEY’S SIN ON HIM DURING LAKELAND?????
One of the main jobs of a prophet is point out sin to reconcile that sinner to the Lord.
AND, if they hate gays so much, why don’t they stone Paul Cain and Todd Bentley and Ted Haggard?
Reminds me of the Nazis… putting gays in concentration camps while so many of the S.S. were flaming homosexuals themselves.
Comment by AriseMyLove | August 29, 2008
Satan has been released to gather his armies.
“The pitch and intensity of the military rhetoric of this branch of the global Dominionist movement has substantially increased since the beginning of 2008,” writes The Discernment Research Group, a Christian watchdog group that tracks what they call heresies or cults within Christianity. “One can only wonder how long before this transforms into real warfare with actual warriors.”
Rev. 16:13 “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.”
When the antichrist appears, there will be a great falling away…not from a faith in God….but from the true gospel of Jesus Christ centered in His death that alone atones for sin and alone reconciles sinners to God.
This antichrist will appear with abundant signs and wonders. I believe this appearing could coincide with thousands of lights in the heavens seen by the whole world. This will be an overwhelming and masterful delusion. This antichrist will claim to be the mahdi, the Jewish Messiah, and the Jesus of the Christian faith. The lights will convince the athiests, agnostics and evolutionists that the man from above, will bring world peace.
Those who oppose him will be under a death decree. These youth being gathered at this time will think they are doing God a service by killing those without the mark. That is what Joel’s army is really all about….it a recruitment in the army of antichrist.
Thanks for posting this.
Comment by BB | August 29, 2008
First of all, thankyou to The Washington based group which did this report and regularly briefs the FBI and other US law agencies about potential threats to internal national security. This was originally a Klan watch group but has steadily expanded its brief.
ROMANS 13 is a much neglected Chapter of The Bible. God gives the “sword” to Government and Government agencies. I include the media powers as well in this.
Can we all learn to pass on concerns to local and national newspapers, TV and radio ? They have the resources to investigate but need the public to pass on tips as to what to investigate.
Can we all learn to pass on concerns to Congressmen, Government Ministers, MPs, The FBI, British police etc
Especially in Britain to The Home Office. They want to know who is likely to be a danger to UK internal security. They have staff which are paid to log, monitor and investigate suspect groups and individuals.
Also phone or write To the Department of Preventing Extremism which is inside The Department of Communities and Local Government headed by Hazel Blears. The Government has a full staff to look into concerns about extremism and brief other government and police departments. It is their job to investigate, get proof if it exists, and take action if they deem it appropriate.
The Home Office can certainly ban Joel’s Army extremists from entering Britain.
(THIS WILL CLOSE TREVOR BAKER’s CONFERENCE CENTRE BUSINESS IN DUDLEY as he is a noted Joel’s Army centre and most of his Conference people from North America are Joel’s Army).
Also in Britain consider contacting The Commission for Human Rights and Racial Equality. They have hundreds of millions of UK Government money to investigate concerns and make reports and take action where necessary. They need to be told what needs investigating.
ROMANS 13 was written by God not me. He gives certain agencies the sword to exact His Revenge. Please consider whether you have concerns these agencies need to hear about. MPS will always pass on concerns to Government Ministers.
MINISTERS AND POLICE OFTEN WAIT FOR A FEW COMPLAINTS BEFORE DECIDING A MATTER NEEDS FULL INVESTIGATION.
The Government actions will publicise this group’s existence and intentions. Hopefully it will wake up the most naive of Church Leaders.
If they all read Miriam’s Blog it would make life much easier in The UK Church.
Comment by David James | August 29, 2008
What I’am seeing here is the stage being set for opening act of the tribulation, even on the thresh hold! Now is the time to READ OUR BIBLES PRAY, FAST, WARN, and get off our rear parts and get out and exercise the “Great Comission!” The time is drawing near! Stay in the word, follow it to the letter and DO NOT STRAY from it in any way!
Watch news reports, use the Bible as a companion as you watch it, you will see many things already done and others in the works. We will not be able to stop this, as it is prophecy from the Bible, stay steadfast and you will prevail. Covering your eyes or plugging your ears will not make it go away. Be ready to fight the good fight. again we the Lord’s own WILL PREVAIL!
He is drawing us closer to Him, helping us dress for battle, helping us put on the full armor, fear not, the attacks we face as His own, will be as firey darts hitting the armor and bouncing off. But woe to those who do not heed these words, cracks in the armor will let the enemy in and he WILL lead you astray.
This time is now, even this very minute to fortify, again we the Lord’s own will prevail. Do not fear, fear alone will leave a crack in the armor and the enemy will get in.
Draw close to me and I will draw close to you says the Lord. I will not leave you or forsake you, you are my chosen. Be steadfast, walk in Love and pull many from the eternal lake of fire, for these are the many things you already know, put them and keep them in your hearts and on your minds and be ever ready to do these which have be commanded. The time is NOW!
Be of good cheer, for I AM with you, yes even to the end!
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
Miriam, this is what the Lord showed me. It’s as if he is getting us ready as a parent dresses a little child. Again…I am shaking and my heart is pounding! How does this test with you?
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
Yes. The locusts have been gathering.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 29, 2008
I also seen more, but mainly focused on the words, was this right? Or should I have wrote what I seen???
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
Why have you not posted what else you saw? What is the reason?
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 29, 2008
I saw us, the saints being dressed in a type of armor. The Lord was individually making us ready, like dressing us and checking out the armor to make sure it was battle ready, such as no cracks, as I said like a parent would dress a child. The armor looked like a bronze color.
There was like a welcome mat, such as ones at the front door of a house…on it said TRIBULATION, and it was like a door way to step through, but I did not see the other side of it fully, only a quick peek, it looked chaotic and loud, there were people running, and screaming, and leaders telling them what to do. When some saw it they became full of fear and did not want to go through, the Lord spoke to them, some continued to get ready, some walked away. Then he gave us the words, the ones I spoke of up top.
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
I guess the reason was…shaking heart pounding, as you have said….it is having to speak it out!
Thank you for ALL your words and help!!!
GOD BLESS YOU!!!!
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
No problem, totally understood. Sometimes it is right to hold something back, sometimes not, hence why I asked about your reasoning - it was not to be critical.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 29, 2008
He was wanting us to know everything WILL be alright for His own! That is why I feel we are already at the very start and we need to keep in our Bibles and keep warning about all the crazy doctrines. Hence keep suited up with the truth! DO NOT STRAY, some how this gave me MUCH comfort! And to KEEP WATCHING!
Comment by OhhowILOVEJESUS | August 29, 2008
“As Wimber, the late founder of The Vineyard, put it in one of his most famous and fiery sermons, one that is still frequently cited by Joel’s Army followers: “Those in this army will have His kind of power. … Anyone who wants to harm them must die.”
ETPW>>> I don’t doubt this at all. But are you able to verify this?
Comment by redeemedhippie | August 30, 2008
Yes, Wimber did say this. Others have said worse.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 30, 2008
At Lakeland this summer, Todd Bentley proclaimed that Bob Jones was giving him "the mantle of William Branham".
Scary stuff indeed because of its political End Times anti Christ implications. Sarah Palin needs to distance herself from this deception.
The Democrats are picking up on the story linking Sarah Palin to this group because of her home church’s ties to Rodney Howard Browne.
Browne and Joyner et all need to be exposed by real Christians for their Dominionism and lies.
Browne disagreed with Todd Bentley early on in the revival this summer, BUT Browne believes exactly the same things that Bentley does.
This is a dangerous cult and it has infected the Assemblies of God church that previously stood against it — going back to 1949. As Lakeland was hosted by a corrupt Assemblies of God preacher, Stader, this heresy has gotten out of control and is infectious to unwitting Christians.
Save us, dear Lord, from those who would save us.Art Hoppe, On the Death of Robert Kennedy
San Francisco Chronicle, 1968
The Daily Kos has this article:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213
SARAH PALIN: DOMINIONIST STALKING HORSE
Well, they are trying to find something to stick to her.
Sounds lik emuch ado about nothing. Just another Protestant thingy that will come and go.
I would like to think you are right, but this movement has only gained strength as there is too much money to be made on the heresy.
And too much power to be gained. You have no idea of the delusion these so called Christians are under... especially if you understand that their Joel 2 army is the deluded Anti Christ Army that God promises He will send in the End Times to persecute the saints...
Palin needs to bone up on her apologetics so as to steer clear of this nightmare.
You wrote:
“I would like to think you are right, but this movement has only gained strength as there is too much money to be made on the heresy.”
Heresy? What heresy exactly? And how can this be any more or less heretical than any other Protestant movement and who decides that?
“And too much power to be gained. You have no idea of the delusion these so called Christians are under... especially if you understand that their Joel 2 army is the deluded Anti Christ Army that God promises He will send in the End Times to persecute the saints...”
Oh, please. These chumps will never be the Anti-Christ. They’re going to be nothing overall.
“Palin needs to bone up on her apologetics so as to steer clear of this nightmare.”
I think you’re getting overly excited about this.
I wish you were right. However, since April when my own charismatic church fell under the delusion and was swept into the apostasy of Lakeland, you would not believe what is going on.
The leaders of this movement have a lot in common with the early Mormons.
They mistake Old Testament ideas of killing unbelievers, bolstered along by the lunatic ravings of their Old Testament styled “Prophets” who hold a magical sway over these people.
I personally think that these charismatics (and I am charismatic myself) have felt like such underdogs in the world, it is a theology of power for their whacked beliefs.
The Lakeland Revival that ended in ignominy this summer is proof of their delusion, though people like me spent weeks — taking off my paid assignments for many many weeks to do it — just to warn the people I love of this deception.
Jesus warns again and again of false prophets and false teachings that go against the Gospel.
It also warns that a one world religious government will be led by someone who does miracles and calls himself Jesus. This is the AntiChrist.
This governmental system will be a theocracy that the Bible says will “kill people in the name of God” because they believe the antiChrist actually is Jesus.
The Bible says that this is the Joel 2 Army. In Joel 2.
It is an army that God “promises He will send” just as He promises He will send “a strong delusion” upon those who no longer love the truth of His Word.
This army will be sent like locusts against the true church in purifying persecution in the last days — the end times when God says “He will have to shorten the time for the sake of the elect”.
I know it sounds conspiratorial. I don't want to fear monger and must guard against it in my own heart, even. But this is a broad network of ignorant charismatics and evangelicals who do not really understand that we are called to carry the Cross to the Lost and God's kingdom IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.
The only one who will “take dominion” of nations and governments in a physical sense is the anti Christ.
So this heresy, which has grown up under unsuspecting charismatic movements, is very dangerous.
As a tag line, the most interesting and phony defense that they always make is that they assume that anyone opposing them are cessatioinists who do not believe in the Pentecostal Holy Spirit gifts of charismatia.
They are being surprised by educated charismatics like myself who have no fear to oppose them head on. They are deceiving the Flock.
The final thing about this prophetic movement of the Joel 2 Army — the “Apostolic Prophetic Cult” is that it is rife with false prophecy.
My question is for them: if normal Christians cannot discern between true and false prophets now, HOW will we discern or distinguish THE False Prophet who the Bible says will herald the Anti Christ?
This is why it is imperative that this Apostolic Prophetic Cult is deconstructed, and debunked and their people de culted.
Notorious for endorsing the public execution by stoning of homosexuals and adulterers, the Christian Reconstructionist movement is far better known in secular America than Joel’s Army. That’s largely because Reconstructionists have made several serious forays into mainstream politics and received a fair amount of negative publicity as a result. Joel’s Army followers eschew the political system, believing the path to world domination lies in taking over churches, not election to public office.
Another key difference between the two branches of dominionism, which maintain a testy, arms-length relationship with one another, is Christian Reconstructionism’s buttoned-down image and heavy emphasis on Bible study, which contrasts sharply with Joel’s Army anti-intellectual distrust of biblical scholars and its unruly style.
Check this out - the author is trying to connect Todd Bentley with Gary North....
This is the number one difference between the "reconstructionist" movement and the "identity" movement. The former still believe in one objective G-d and religion for everyone in the world, while the latter are henotheists to whom "the Biblical G-d" is the G-d and creator only of "white chr*stian Israel," with other people being the creations of other "gxds" (or at least not descended from Adam). This is why the far, far, far right supports a "planet of peoples;" they reject the idea of a single human race under a single G-d. They are essentially pagans opposed to monotheism to whom each people has the right to create its own worldview and "gxd" in its own image.
This doesn't mean I'm apologizing for or defending the "reconstructionists," however. They are very anti-Israel and run the John Birch Society (I assume Ron Paul is one of these people). They are certainly very far removed from traditional "pessimistic" apocalyptic chr*stianity.
NOW--I would like to address the inevitable association of "theocracy" with anti-Semitism. While I personally consider "reconstructionism" to be anti-Semitic (or at least anti-Israel), this has nothing to do with their theocratic orientation. Judaism is in fact a Theocratic religion; every Orthodox Jew lives his/her life according to a very strict and complicated regimen of Halakhah, which is the practical implementation of Divine Law. In fact, one could say that "reactionary" chr*stians who are "theocratic" have taken a step towards Judaism/Noachism by rejecting the "spiritual messiah" in favor of a literal world-ruling messiah. True, they err in their chr*stianity and their belief that mankind is obligated to observe "chr*stian law" (is this not a contradiction in terms? Is not Judaism the statutory religion while chr*stianity is anti-statutory and salvational?), the obsession with Divine Law, far from being anti-Semitic, is much more Semitic than chr*stian. As I said, I regard "reconstructionists" as anti-Semites for their prejudice against Jews and opposition to Israel, but their "theocracism" has nothing to do with this.
How ironic that the Jews have become so disassociated with Theocracy that the first thing most people think on contemplating such a thing is "what will become of the poor Jews?" Why does not one consider that the "poor Jews" may be the people running it???
Doesn't sound like it's going to me...Not with scores of thousands of members...
These people plan on being here at the 2nd coming of Jesus...
I thank God that we Christians will be raptured out of here long before that...You Catholics might have to deal with this group head-on...
On the anti Semitism front, usually the base players of charismatia are not Anti Semitic. However, the false power stuctures that the theology of Dominionism provide them puts them a a very white, very elitist and very theocratic blend of Old Testament rules under a “Christian” banner.
It is the same sort of ideas of Mormons. You have to understand the power of their “Office of the Prophet”. These Dominionists of the Apostolic Prophetic cult believe that they ARE modern day Elijahs. Not pretty and not Christian and strangely anti Semitic. I say that because you cannot be a true Christian and be anti Semitic at the same time.
Todd Bently and his whole entourage and his zealots are mentally and spiritually deranged.
Of course anyone who dare point out the fallacy and blasphemy of his circus act is immediately burned at the stake.
Thank the Lord for this statement:
“In a 2001 position paper, Assemblies of God leaders wrote that they do not recognize modern-day apostles or prophets and worried that “such leaders prefer more authoritarian structures where their own word or decrees are unchallenged.”
And then there are the kooks on the other side that claim that all Christians are involved in this “reconstruction” - *whisper* some don’t even know it.
Such as this kooky quote:
“...Many on the Christian Right are unaware that they hold Reconstructionist ideas. “
*AND*
“... Generally, Reconstructionism seeks to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern by imposing their interpretation of “Biblical Law.” Reconstructionism would eliminate not only democracy but many of its manifestations, ... Insufficiently Christian men would be denied citizenship, perhaps executed. So severe is this theocracy that it would extend capital punishment beyond such crimes as kidnapping, rape, and murder to include, among other things, blasphemy, heresy, adultery, and homosexuality.
Reconstructionism has expanded from the works of a small group of scholars to inform a wide swath of conservative Christian thought and action.”
http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre1.html
Lies. And now we have Todd “The Psychotic Prophet” to
sell more lies.
Sorry but real disciples of Christ do not wish to create a theocracy much less a theocracy based on the
Old Covenant Laws.
Sanity From http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain10.htm
“The bible says no such thing, it says the opposite. And it becomes a dangerous precedent when a few control the many, church or not! Jesus said the field is the world. The wheat and tares grow up together. And we had better be able to distinguish the difference in our day. This concept of unity was tried by the Catholic Church to integrate religion with the state and politics. And it became the downfall of a Church that was kept pure by persecution. We may yet see the “holy wars” like the early Holy Roman Empire revived to try and produce what only Christ can as the Prince of Peace.”
Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; RJR_fan; TomSmedley
Tom Smedley hasn't posted for well over a year. I suspect he's gone.
The Assemblies of God got themselves in very hot water because Stephen Strader, the pastor who hosted Todd Bentley’s “revival” was Assemblies of God.
People cried out to the AOG early this summer to condemn what the AOG had condemned for fifty years of this false movement, They did a lukewarm response.
So did Jack Hayford, head of the Foursquare Church. This is doing the thing in the book of Revelation where a church is condemned for “tolerating” the false prophecies and false teaching of Jezebel. it is not an obscure sin. Hayford and the AOG needed to stand by the Bible and condemn Lakeland at the time.
Now that Lakeland exploded in sin, they have egg on their faces. Not to mention the unbelief now sown in the scattered sheep of the false revival there. Strader should have been reprimanded immediately.
P.S. This is also the reason some are alarmed at any NAR/Dominionist ideas of Sarah Palin’s AOG pastor. His “tolerated” associations. To tolerate means to have passive agreement and is NOT pleasing to the Lord where blasphemy and heresy is being hawked.
“Be ye either hot or cold, but be ye lukewarm, and I will spew you out of my mouth...” (Funny I learned that scripture under Jack Hayford...)
Ooohh, that’s gotta hurt...
Jack Hayford is a fine man and a fine Christian.
Then I expect to see the Mitt folks in these threads backing her up and calling the Dem's Haters and Bigots.
Yes, I have personal meetings with him on specific things I was working on many times. However, he dropped the ball on Lakeland when I was asking the Lord to allow him to live long enough to stand up against the End Time Delusion. Unfortunately, the NARbots of Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce (who wrote some of the literature for Cleansing Stream) and C Peter Wagner are friendly with Jack Hayford. I believe this is why he issued his very lukewarm statement about it, instead of protecting the wounded flock from the false teachings of Todd Bentley and company.
Cleansing Stream is a wonderful program. I’ve been twice and was set free from several things that had caused so much unhappines in my life.
Cleansing Stream is a wonderful program. I’ve been twice and was set free from several things that had caused so much unhappines in my life.
First of all, I do not know anything about the authors motivations or if they are representing the subjects correctly.
But the group sounds like a Christian Identity (Neo Nazi) type group. The whole “seed of Cain” thing is what tipped my whiskers about it. That is a similar thing that some of those groups use to say that the only “pure” race is the “white” race (never mind white is not a racial group).
But, I have also seen times where the left will invent bogey men to justify their own goals. The whole Dominionist scare is often used as a reason for someone to argue that Christians should not be in politics, or be banned from voting.
This is the first I’ve heard of it.
I’m fairly strongly of the opinion that
THE WEAPONS OF OUR WARFARE ARE NOT CARNAL . . . i.e. are instead, prayer, right living, doing good works etc.
There is the Scripture about the righteous taking ?territory? spiritual territory? by force but that’s rather vague . . . the force of love and spiritual clout with God are the most powerful forces.
Of course I’m in favor of the 2nd amendment and being prepared in a variety of ways for what’s ahead.
But mostly, I think that means being prayed up and walking close to God. Certainly the other stuff can be important but not near as important as those priorities.
I personally think Christ returning with the saints to wage war at Armageddon will be the first such “action” most Believers will see of that sort of thing.
On the other hand, there will be a lot of believers calling down heavenly forces to do battle for them in this sphere.
I totally expect that children will pronounce judgment and whole armies and their arms and generals will be swallowed up by the earth.
So, I really don’t know where this movement is coming from or going. Sounds rather questionable, to me.
But, I have also seen times where the left will invent bogey men to justify their own goals. The whole Dominionist scare is often used as a reason for someone to argue that Christians should not be in politics, or be banned from voting.I wonder why the "Dominionist" label is never applied to "Christian" socialists who try to warp teachings on charity to justify a Marxist nanny state? IMO this is much more dangerous than the type of fringe groups being described here (not defending them in any way: on the contrary, they should be condemned in the strongest possible terms and any illegal action on their part should be dealt with accordingly) if only because "Christian" socialism is much more mainstream and influential on society as a whole.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.” –C.S. LewisPing to Coyoteman as this relates to your post 3.
I’ll send you a link on cleansing stream. I know it may be helpful for some, but there is an infectious doctrine of these Elijah Listers that we must show our selves approved to understand and rebuke.
These people are actual Dominionists. And they teach “Imprecatory Prayer” which is exactly “praying against flesh and blood” — much like the Mormons did. It is praying down curses on your enemies and thinking it is Christ!
Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Paul Cain. William Branham...
Look up their doctrine of “Manifest Sons of God” — they believe they have to take over nations and governments IN ORDER that Christ returns.
I know the Left could have field day with this, but it is such heresy, it doesn’t matter. These people no longer love the truth of God’s word and are buying into William Branham’s doctrine of demons. Google around...
The Elijah List has far too much commercialization for my taste by a long shot.
When I confronted the founder about it, he insisted that it’s to help fund a long list of single mothers etc. etc. etc. . . . quite admirable and praise God for that.
However, when even the printer friendly pages are outrageously filled with ads, something’s out of balance, imho.
I don’t think everything he posts on the list is anointed or straight from God. A number of things are—and are a blessing to the Body of Christ.
The characters you listed certainly have their flaws and saying goofy things at times has been one of them.
Nevertheless, God has used them and those still in this dimension who have made things right where correction was needed will be used of God again.
It is still hazardous to throw unnecessary rocks at folks God is using.
I received an excellent article in the email basket that I hope to share when I get some other things further along.
Certainly we are to point out unBiblical error etc.
However, a lot of the rock throwing originates out of folks hostile to other Believers because
“THEY MUST BE WRONG BECAUSE THEY DON’T DO THINGS LIKE WE DO”
and I don’t think God is typically very impressed with that.
HE LOVES to use His ‘foolishness’ with very strange birds to confound the wise.
We’ve done it several times in our church and it’s been an excellent program. I hope we can do it again. The retreats are very good. I was freed up of some things that held me back for years. The depression lifted. I highly recommend it to anyone.
We’ve done it several times in our church and it’s been an excellent program. I hope we can do it again. The retreats are very good. I was freed up of some things that held me back for years. The depression lifted. I highly recommend it to anyone.
Exactly, Quix. Thank you. I get weary of the rock throwers and bet God does, too. Not all Christian leaders are perfect, nor will any of us be until the return of Christ.
I would be really interested in knowing exactly what organizations they say they are donating money to, as well (outside of their own ‘prophetic” ministries of course)
This has nothing to do with doing it my own way: it has everything to do with bumping up against God's admonitions against false teachings and false prophets...
You know of course, of the encyclopedia full of false prophecies out of BoB jones and Paul Cain and Cindy Jacobs and Rick Joyner et all?
The slaughter of faith in the spirit at Lakeland this summer? Elijah List/GOD TV backed.
Chuck Pierce preaching and peddling the Kabballah on the Elijah List and passing it off as God's prophetic word of the week?
Pierce was caught red handed plagiarizing this year and has not repented since.
Nor have any of the Elijah Listers/NARbots/Domininists who laid hands on Todd Bentley at Lakeland declaring it was a sovereign move of a Holy God and declaring him to be an Apostle of the Most High —
NONE OF THEM HAVE REPENTED FOR THEIR LYING PROPHECIES OVER TODD BENTLEY. A true prophet “sees” sin on someone, this is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit. As Nathan saw David's sin; as Peter say Ananias and Sapphira's’ sin. But these so called “Prophets” Elijah List did not see the sin on Todd Bentley... NOR REFUNDED THE MONEY. NOR PRAYED OFF THE DEMONIC IMPARTATIONS THAT BENTLEY WAS DOING; EVERYONE WAS WARNING THEM ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF PRAYING WITH ANGELS and WILLIAM BRANHAM'S FALSE TEACHINGS...
Sorry for the caps, it is just that these people are the deluded Joel 2 army that God said he promises he will send.
First they had the Elijah list, now they have the false prophets of God Tv.
Its a nightmare.
I’ll wait to make a substantive comment until I post the doc I received in email about all that.
I’m probably not aware of every last sin and offense. I’m aware of more than I want to be aware of.
Steve, founder of Elijah list, takes care of a sizable list of single mothers IN THEIR CHURCH with the sales of media products from the list. Yes, I communicated with him repeatedly about it. He wouldn’t budge.
I notice that someone eventually got through to him and the “printer friendly” pages have finally been made significantly more printer friendly.
One of my friends from Taiwan that I had a hand in becoming a Christian is in the same church in Oregon with his Chinese wife and beautiful kids growing on in The Lord. Praise God! He notes that Steve is fairly hard headed about such things.
We’ve known and prayed for some time that God would clean up the prophetic scene in our era. He is in the process of doing so. A lot of the critics will not be that happy when God is done. God will insure that they also reap fittingly from unrepented unfitting fleshly critical judgment, where applicable.
Some folks look at such mixtures and horrors and pretend that’s proof that there’s no modern era authentic Christian prophetic to be walked out Biblically, anointed.
THAT’S FAR from the truth.
Thanks.
Blessed be the Name of The Lord.
Bob Jones: “When I was in the mental institution, God told me I would have to either forgive 12 people or MURDER 12 people to regain my sanity.”
Bob Jones on being caught prophesying over women while they were naked in his church office: 'It was just a spirit of lust" Rick Joyner: “People keep referring to Jesus as the MAN from Galilee. He is not a man. Jesus was and IS Spirit.”
C Peter Wagner: “Evangelism is best done by taking the cities for God with declarations over riverways, buildings, and geographical portals.”
C Peter Wagner: “Wealth is the biggest and best way to change society in the history of mankind.’
(Uh, Peter, ever hear of Jesus’ effect on western civilization?)
Cindy Jacobs: 18 months before the Indonesian tsunami “I see prosperity and great financial growth in INDONESIA, thus saith the Lord!”
Chuck Pierce ripping off the astrological Kaballah and saying that it was the weekly Word of the Lord to the Body. (Still has not repented.)
Paul Cain (May 2008 at Lakeland): “I have been a celibate all of my life!”
Todd Bentley: “The Lord told me “You have to get them to believe in the Angel!”
Jim Goll with John Crowder: “Smokin’ and tokin’ the Holy Spirit joint — did you get high?”
Rick Joyner: “Bob Jones and Paul Cain are the two end time witnesses in the Bible” and “the most accurate prophets ever.”
Rick Joyner: “The Apostle Paul had a problem with pride that he never wrote about, and he was envious of me when I met him because he failed at being a great Apostle. Just as Paul had pride, some young prophets are unskilled and immature so they are being called false prophets.”
Paul Cain: “In the end times, we will be physically glorified and transfigured, and we will be invincible and no one will be able to physically harm us”
Bill Hamon: “The Office of the Prophet is a different gift than the layman's common gift of prophesy available to everyone after Pentecost. You must be trained and schooled for this special, End Times office, as new revelation will flow that will supersede the Word of God.”
These are just some of the quotes I remember... some may be paraphrases but they capture the Christianese of this false doctrine.
Much has been documented about Bob Jones’ angel Emma that translates into the Satanic demon Emma o, but more than this, Jones’s own sexual perversion while prophesying over the naked women in his Anaheim Vineyard church office is the clincher that he is a male Jezebel and this whole movement is run by familiar spirits.
There is much documentation on this fact. The fact that none of the Elijah Listers prophecies every come true — or how they prophesy after the fact — as Chuck Pierce did after the China earthquake this year — shows the very foundational of the Elijah’ Listers doctrine is satanic.
It is not called the Apostolic Prophetic cult for a reason...
Oh and yes, I believe in the full gifts of charismatia.
And I am God's anointed, as you are, so none of that false shaming.
And Jesus is the biggest heresy hunter that ever lived because He kept warning us, over and over, against false teachings and false prophets and the Anti Christ.
(The above are the three stock objections when you try to deconstruct the false teachings of the NAR. )
it is a dangerous cult, very much akin to Mormonism.
Then Jesus is, by your estimation Mary, the biggest “rock thrower” of them all.
How many times did He warn us against false teachings and false prophesy?
Again, if we cannot discern false teaching of false prophets now,
HOW will we discern THE False Prophet of the book of revelation who ushers in the Anti Christ?
When John tells us to “test the spirits, my beloved, because not every spirit comes from God”
... you know that this means test the teaching to make sure it lines up with the Gospel, right?
The Heresy hunter/rock throwin’ argument got long in the tooth months before Bentley was found out to be a fraud at Lakeland.
Show yourself approved. I’m not taking the time to post this out of any ego need, but out of a need to warn fellow Christians of the promised delusion that God says He WILL SEND.
Google the prophetic word of some guy from Colorado called “The Specter of the Red” too. Red means dull or dumb and silent when taken in context of how we “see”. It is also related to Edom or Essau’s problem of giving up the inheritance for the sins of the flesh.
QUITE HIDEOUS, indeed.
All over these threads there are people continually dissing evangelists, etc. I don’t mind genuine criticism but way too many just judge, some without even knowing the person they judge. I can understand the Todd Bentley stuff because he was way off the bubble, but there are others (and I’m not particularly talking about you here) who continually put down almost any evangelist and often unfairly. Yes, we need to be discerning and if there are genuine concerns, I don’t mind hearing thm.
I agree. And to let you know, I learned more from jack Hayford about the Word than any other person. I know he is a man of God, there are many who are just upset that he did not do more about protecting the sheep from Lakeland and this NAR/Elijah List dangerous nonsense.
IMHO, of course, but I think people were reticent in a way because they weren’t sure whether this was a move of God or it wasn’t. Apparently it wasn’t. It came to an end. I think we have all learned a lesson. Dutch Sheets wrote an excellent article about that and his feelings about Christians putting people like Todd on stage. Todd needed more discipleship before going public. He did some dynamic things, but then seemed to go the other way. I’m sad for him.
I’ll ping you the article on someone’s response to Dutch Sheets’ response.
Thanks. Did YOU read Dutch’s response?
At length. I like Sheets but believe he was an intercessor who has been compromised in those ‘tolerated associations” that the Lord does not approve of with these NAR people.
This letter is in the comments section and other places on the web.
This letter was posted at jp miller’s site. It was written by neophyte in response to Dutch Sheet’s letter in response to Lakeland. I hope Steve Strang and ALL the NAR/Elijah List leaders read it as I think it expresses eloquently and profoundly what many of us think and feel. - M. Franklin
************************************************************************************
Love and respect you, Brother Dutch, and agree with much of what you had to say about the situation in Lakeland and the body of Christ in general.
But, you know, when all’s said and done I have to admit I feel like a young girl who’s been molested most of her life, and there comes a time when she says, “Enough!”
Yes, enough. Leave us alone. Please leave His church, His people, His bride, alone. All you “leaders”. All you pharisees, sadducees, and teachers of the law. Please take your hands off us and let us be.
You’ve been telling us all these years that you’re meeting our needs. That we need you. That we can’t do “it” without you. But we’ve been seeing for awhile now what’s really been going on. How we’ve been meeting YOUR needs all this time. Our time, our money, our talents, our families, our homes, our hearts and minds, our LIVES… you’ve stuck your hands where they don’t belong for far too long, and it’s time to say, “ENOUGH!”
We’re not going back to business as usual. We’re not going to waste another 10, 20, 30 years listening to your sermons and your teachings and your prophecies and your plans. The product isn’t what’s been advertised and we’re done chasing the carrot. We see it for what it is and we forgive you, but we’re done playing the game.
We’re done gazing up at you from our lowly perches. We’re done saying “How high?” to your “Jump.” We’re done placating your enormous egos and craven need for adulation at our and our families’ expense... for the little scraps we get that fall to the ground from your table.
Because, you see, we don’t really need you. At least not the “you” most of us have had all these years. The closest to God, smartest about God, most anointed of God and blessed of God, infallible prophet, priest and king “you”.
So, thank you very much, but we’re done pretending the emperor has clothes.
God must come to our hearts and our homes, brothers and sisters. That’s the simple bottom line. All the failings we see in the body of Christ are a direct result of God not taking His place in hearts and homes.
It’s not complicated at all. It’s really very simple. Much simpler than most would have us believe. If God isn’t God of our hearts and homes, what is He God of? And if God isn’t God of our leaders’ hearts and homes, what do they really have to give us? Theory?
They would have us believe “higher levels mean higher devils”.
They would have us feel guilty when they fall as if it’s somehow our fault.
(When they’re actually caught red-handed, that is. The rest of the time we do as we’re told and look the other way, pretending not to notice because what good would it do anyway?)
If only we prayed more or supported them more. If only we gave more. Yes, somehow it’s all our fault. Just like the molested little girl. (But all of this is neither here nor there. Because it’s a brand new day.)
Love God, love others as you love yourself. At least that’s what Jesus said it boiled down to. You know, CHRIST Jesus?
How complicated is that? You need a PhD for that? Even a little child can understand it. How many commandments did God give the people through Moses? This isn’t rocket science, folks. Faith in Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection remits our sins and creates in us a clean, new heart. So that we can be filled with the Holy Spirit of God who IS love. So that we CAN love. Ta-daa. Pretty basic stuff, I think we’d all agree.
So, please, exalted rulers, please back down and leave us and our families alone. Please know your place. Please TAKE your place. Because you do realize, don’t you, that it’s high time, and then some.
I’m sure you realize, way deep down inside even, that there’s an awful lot of us out here whose shelves are filled to overflowing with your never-ending, not freely given, verbiage — you who have the audacity to think we might actually be able to do this thing called love… without you. (Oh my God, how could we, it’s all so horribly complicated!!)
Please, know your place, take your place. With all due respect.
Shalom,
One though many of His children
Actually, I rather like your doc.
I certainly like your pluck.
I didn’t even find a line to quibble with.
Sometimes, I shock even myself.
I do think God is moving away from leaders who are so bone-marrow convinced that they have a corner on God and God’s move in our era.
There will still be dramatic leaders whom God WILL use. And some, if not all of them, will still be birds of rare plumage more often than not.
However, the purity before God and man will be kicked up quite a number of levels, imho.
Have you ever checked out Curry Blake? Rather atypical, it seems to me—i.e. much more Biblical and about doing God’s work for God’s reasons in God’s ways and doesn’t care a flip about what others think.
I think it’s also wise to realize that we are all works in progress and all of us fail in greater or lesser ways almost on a daily basis.
However, for leaders to fail so spectacularly for so long with such arrogance and such an outrageous ‘entitlement’ mentality is so far over the line as to be outside this galactic cluster.
Yet, Pride is a seductive and devilish horror for every mortal alive. All best take heed lest we fall.
Thanks much for your comments, your insight is helpful.
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