Posted on 07/07/2008 10:43:32 AM PDT by NYer
It has become a cliché to say that the Church of England is in a mess. But a new chapter of messiness began just recently with the “marriage” of two Anglican clergymen in a festive ceremony in St Bartholomew’s church in London. One of the men is a doctor at the nearby famous St Bartholomew’s Hospital. The wedding – in grand style, with music and flowers and “Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today…” and vows and bouquets – received widespread publicity.
At no time among any Christians at any stage since Christ himself walked this earth – or at any stage in the long years before that, of preparation and teaching by God to his chosen people – has it ever been regarded as possible or right for two people of the same sex to go through any form of marriage ceremony, or to engage on any form of sexual relationship.
Down all the centuries of Christian life, through so many different eras with great massive changes in laws and politics and dress and food and human customs, through wars and dynasties and famines and explorations, through the building and re-building of cathedrals and hospitals and schools and universities, through debates and arguments and massive splits and heresies and mutual antagonisms and fights and persecutions…through all that, and through more, through the passage of the years and the discoveries in science and medicine and engineering and technology, through changes in transport and travel and art and writing and language and means of communication, through great writings of music and drama and literature and great mapping of the stars and planets and explorations of the human mind and its possibilities…through all of that there has never, absolutely never, at any time, been any sort of recognition by the Christian Church that it was anything other than repugnant to the law of God and contrary to His plan for the human race for two people of the same sex to attempt matrimony. Until the last five minutes, that is.
| 'Christ’s miracle at Cana is reversed – no long water into wine at a wedding, but water splashed everywhere, on any sexual relationship that humans seek to honour.' |
Now, with the Lambeth Conference imminent, the actions of the clergy involved in the St Bartholomew’s debacle (there were many senior clergy among the 300 guests) make it more likely that the church will split over homosexuality and other issues, including the consecration of women bishops. A breakaway group has already held an alternative “Lambeth” in Jerusalem, declaring, among other things: “We acknowledge God’s creation of humankind as male and female and the unchangeable standard of Christian marriage between one man and one woman as the proper place for sexual intimacy and the basis of the family.”
This isn’t a tiny obscure niggling aspect of our Christian faith. This is connected to human begetting – to the essence of how we are made, to God’s creation ordinances. Matrimony is a sacrament instituted by God, not something of our making, and done on his terms, not ours. Just as bread and wine are the “matter” at the heart of the Eucharist, so one man and one woman, united for life, are the essential “matter” of matrimony.
Why do some in today’s Anglican Church think differently? Chiefly, it seems, because it is regarded as cruel and unjust to make anyone feel uncomfortable simply because of a desire to engage in same-sex relationships. And no one wants to be regarded as cruel or unjust. So, instead, there must be a decision that, somehow, God got things wrong from the beginning, or…no, perhaps it is simply his Church which has been wrong from the very start, and the Jewish tradition in all the epochs beforehand.
This understanding brings in the idea that a new revelation came to people in America and much of Western Europe in the late 1970s, and thus now we must rewrite things and make a claim for the Anglican Church which sets it irrevocably apart from all the Christians belief of centuries. In this understanding, God’s plan for the human race is not essentially based on man and woman, there is no uniting of the two that reflects the great reality of Christ and Church, there is no mystery of marriage which draws us ultimately to the marriage feast in heaven. Christ’s miracle at Cana is reversed – no long water into wine at a wedding, but water splashed everywhere, on any sexual relationship that humans seek to honour. And the Eucharist no longer contains within its heart a nuptial mystery, but is merely a decorative feast that we can use to honour what we will.
A mess? Of course it’s a mess. And heartbreaking. The Church of England has been for many a thing of great goodness: an introduction to God, a place where the Ten Commandments and the Lord’s Prayer and the beauty of Christ’s message could be learned and loved, an institution through which the name of Christ was held high in public places. It has been custodian of some of the world’s most glorious churches. Their walls have echoed to exquisite music, and seen enchanting displays of flowers created by loving hands for God’s glory. For many, many families – and schools, and colleges, and regiments, and institutions the Anglican Church has provided a framework for the honouring of birth and death, of life’s landmarks and memories. Soldiers have been sent to God with Anglican prayers, and battle-worn flags have been hung in peaceful parish churches to honour courage and valour. Dying patients in hospitals, the lonely and the sick at home, people in prison, the bereaved, have met with kindness from Anglican clergy who spoke to them of God and led them in prayer.
This is a terrific heritage. It is something good. It is cherished and valued by many who are not themselves members of the Church of England.
And what happens now? Ordaining women was a break with the solemn tradition of the Church and has closed the door to any possible unity with the See of Peter and the Church centred in Rome. But there remained much goodwill and a common understanding of Christ and of God’s plans for human flourishing. There remained faithfulness to God’s word, and common endeavours to spread it among people everywhere. But now this is going too.
For the immediate future, things will muddle along. Compromises will be made. A structure of sorts will remain intact. Some bishops will formally break communion, and there will be wrangles over property. Those who adhere to the traditional and orthodox teachings will be deemed the rebels. There will be factions. Meanwhile, quite apart from the debates about homosexuality, other issues will continue to cause splits. Some provision – inadequate, muddled, slightly illogical – will be made if and when women are consecrated as bishops.
Probably, various forms of Anglicanism will continue for quite a while yet. Some will be very good, and much will be compromised and pointless. Decent men and women will be confused, and the great mass of people in Britain – unchurched, untaught, in a culture dominated by a celebrity-obsessed media and much vulgarity – will drift further and further away from even the folk-memories of Christ that they have at present.
Can one same-sex wedding ceremony in a London church cause all this? Of course not. The problem is a much larger one. It wasn’t just one iceberg that caused this shipwreck. This is about church authority and whether it exists or not. It is about how true doctrine is preserved and safeguarded. It is about our understanding of God, and how much authority he has and how we can discern what is his will and what isn’t, and whether it matters.
The people within the Church of England who love the scriptures and are convinced that there are deep unchanging teachings, are on the right path. The Anglicans who simply love their church and ache for the days when things seemed simpler and issues such as same-sex marriage didn’t seem to arise, have a right to a spiritual home and good guidance. The sincerely confused, who went along with women priests and will accept women bishops too and vaguely feel that endless changes are somehow creative, need a vision which is larger and stronger and points to ultimate truth.
How will God provide for all these people? We don’t know, but he won’t let them struggle without aid in the stormy seas of the 21st century. He seeks out his own. Keep members of the Church of England in your prayers. The story isn’t over yet.
Let the R.C. nastiness commence.
The only nastiness on this thread so far is the kind you're spouting.
To me it looks like the Jerusalem meeting is a smart move.
?
If you look at some posters very recent history you’ll see why the defensiveness....glass houses and all.
I haven’t seen any nasty posts on this thread.
Correct you are...look to people crying about nastiness to find nastiness.
As good a summary of modern Britain as I've seen.
Ah, well. It’s too bad.
“For many, many families – and schools, and colleges, and regiments, and institutions the Anglican Church has provided a framework for the honouring of birth and death, of life’s landmarks and memories. Soldiers have been sent to God with Anglican prayers, and battle-worn flags have been hung in peaceful parish churches to honour courage and valour. Dying patients in hospitals, the lonely and the sick at home, people in prison, the bereaved, have met with kindness from Anglican clergy who spoke to them of God and led them in prayer.
This is a terrific heritage. It is something good. It is cherished and valued by many who are not themselves members of the Church of England.”
I’m one of them and what I see happening to a church which had such an influence on me growing up is heartbreaking. Its also time for true Christians to leave that group since communion with heresy makes one an enemy of God, not a status to be sought after, at least to my way of thinking.
Defections are inevitable. More fracturing and splitting of fracturing and splitting.
No, that cannot be the reason. Had it been the chief reason, the response would have been to prevent gay "marriages" by all means, and to lead the gays out of their bondage to sin, precisely so that not to be cruel or injust to them.
The chief reason for the debacle is that the homosexual act is not regarded as sinful regardless of what promises and attitudes precede and envelope it.
I am a Catholic who is quite active on a couple of orthodox Episcopalian/Anglican blogs. I have supported those brothers and sisters in Christ without any hint on Catholic nastiness as you so graciously term it. I have prayed those who can not in good conscience go to Catholicism or Orthodoxy find a home in an Anglican church outside of the TEC such as CANA. I rejoiced with them when the GAFCON Jerusalem Declaration was made public.
So you will get no Catholic nastiness about those Anglicans/Episcopalians whose hearts are breaking over the crisis in their church.
Now if you want I and orthodox Protestants can show some nastiness about Spong, Robinson, KJS, Swing and others who have brought the TEC to this sorry pass.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Some freepers hold themselves in higher regard and enjoy nothing more than to laugh at others. For the most part, I tend to believe the Catholics in the forum have born the brunt of so many antagonistic comments that those who remain do so out of loyalty to their faith.
That said, the purpose of this thread is not to cast bricks but, as I posted above, to show our prayerful support. If anything, look at the scandal the Catholic Church endured and for which many in the pews are still paying a high price.
We live in difficult times. When viewed in the face of man's existence on earth, they are nothing more than a drop in the bucket. That sentiment does not assuage the pain devout Anglicans are feeling, nor qualm their fears. You have a long and proud heritage. As our Lord taught us to pray: "Thy will (not mine) be done". Know that many of your Catholic brothers and sisters join their prayers with yours.
Anglican ping
And not to jump into any fray, I'll just note that while the vast majority of Roman Catholic FReepers are gracious (not to mention), there have over the years been a few who were, as Clint Williams (I think) once said on an "Episcopal" thread, a poor witness with their attitude.
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.
FReepmail Huber or sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (sometimes 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by Huber and sionnsar.
Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com
Humor: The Anglican Blue
Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15
The most regular poster RC poster on the Anglican threads is certainly a credit to her faith, but I can think of at least 4 who certainly merit the description given.
It is heartbreaking... or maybe just "was," because I left so long ago. And have come to agree with my Archbishop that there is no way we want to be in communion with such, whatever the hardships ahead of us. (There's a reason why on my last trip I attended a Sunday morning Greek Orthodox service instead of an Episcopal -- well, more than one reason, have to add "curiosity"...)
Huber once posted a (link to the) history of the Anglican church (which LONG precedes Henry VIII), but I didn't keep a copy.
I'm not as knowledgeable as I ought to be about such things but then I didn't take on the ping list from a position of knowledge, I took it on simply to continue the late FReeper Arlin Adam's service of being a guide to the faithful who found they could no longer remain in PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC. (And those days are about over now -- it's been a LONG time since I last received such an inquiry back-channel.)
it's been a LONG time since I last received such an inquiry back-channel.
I do appreciate the fact that you took over the ping list. When you stepped into Arlin Adams' rather large shoes, things were quite a bit different. While things were going on behind the scenes, there wasn't really any obvious place to turn besides the groups which left over the issue of the ordination of women (and, let's face it - they weren't exactly on every corner). Now, there are more options out where folks can see them - CANA, AMiA, Southern Cone, Schofield, Ilker....
I do pray for my Anglican brothers and sisters who are trying to remain faithful, wherever they end up.
Graciously stated!
And I can count many more ranging from Seventh Day Adventists to Mormons to Evangelicals to Calvinists to Episcopalians to Roman Catholics whom I would not invite to a reasoned debate or even a night at a pub. It seems that the only ones who get to cast stones would be the Eastern Orthodox and the Lutherans who consistently set an appropriate and gracious tone for our postings here on FR.
I’ve had run-ins with EO before, so I won’t concede you that point, but I agree that I can’t recall any cross words from a Lutheran.
I don’t think most of the SDAs or the Mormons would be much fun if you invited them to a pub, anyway.
Don't know about "Mormons in pubs," but I once worked for one who occasionally ran up some big bills, wine included.
Make no mistake ... fear of "seeming mean" is the main reason why the orthodox Anglicans have let themselves lose this one.
The problem, of course, is that Anglicanism has become as beholden to political processes -- and the same pressure groups -- as in "real" politics. And we orthodox get regularly pounded by liberals in church politics for the very same reason we do as conservatives in "real" politics.
And in both cases, we are unable to formulate a message that avoids being "mean" to a majority of folks. That's our problem.
You say that like it's a good thing ... but I suspect it will just lead to long-term divisions such as currently plague the other "continuing Anglican churches."
IMO, a lot of the problems we face -- on both sides of the divide -- have to do with Americans avoiding obedience. I honestly can't imagine, say, the CANA folks actually acquiescing to the demands of Abp. Akinola when it comes to things like money an non-sexual social policies.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
What does this mean?--Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.
We Orthodox are big on casting aspersions, especially after a Great Agiasmos at Epiphany. The rose scented ones are best. Some Sundays we are positively soaked by the pappas! :)
As usual, H, you are too kind and too wrong about us Orthodoxers. We are, individually and as we pray at communion time, the first among sinners. And among the Orthodox, we Greeks are the worst. That’s why God gave us the NT in Greek, to give us, like he did for His other favorite and bad kids the Jews, every possible advantage! :)
Now, Lutherans being good? Well, I can buy that for the ones around here at a minimum!
LOL! Well, we are not good. Just forgiven!
That and I guess you haven’t seen some of the Lutheran boards. We save our ammo for each other I guess.
As to the article in question, this saddens me. My great grandfather was from England, and to see the end of that great country is very sad.
Thank you for such gracious words.
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