Posted on 07/07/2008 7:49:57 AM PDT by Gamecock
Thank the Calvinists for one of the most thoughtfully provocative moments of the 2008 Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting.
(Of course, if you’re a Calvinist, you’ll say: “No, thank God. That moment was preordained from before the foundation of the world.” Just a little theological humor.)
The moment happened while messengers considered the sixth of nine resolutions they passed this year. Resolution Six addressed “regenerate church membership and church member restoration.” It exhorted churches and pastors to “implement a plan to minister to, counsel and restore wayward church members based upon the commands and principles given in Scripture.”
But Tom Ascol, pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Fla., and a key leader among Calvinist—also called Reformed—Southern Baptists, suggested the resolution needed to be more direct and substantial.
Ascol asked messengers to amend the original resolution and to call on Southern Baptist churches “to repent of any failure among us to live up to our professed commitment to regenerate church membership and any failure to obey Jesus Christ in lovingly correcting wayward church members.” His amendment also urged denominational leaders “to support and encourage any church’s efforts to recover and implement this discipline of our Lord Jesus Christ … even if such efforts result in a reduction in the number of members that are recorded in those churches.”
Calvinism, or Reformed theology, takes its name from the 16th century reformer John Calvin. Its five “points” are brought to mind by the acrostic TULIP—representing total depravity of all humans, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints (or what Baptists often call “once saved, always saved”).
From its earliest decades, the Baptist movement has embraced both Calvinists and non-Calvinists. Because contemporary Baptists focus so strongly on missions and Christ’s Great Commission to proclaim the gospel to “all nations,” most of them shy away from strict Calvinism. They can’t comprehend that God would “elect” or choose some people for salvation while also condemning others to hell even before they are born. As you might imagine, Baptists have argued over Calvinism for generations.
But Calvinism has been gaining favor with many Baptists, particularly young adults, for several years. Its most attractive feature is its unswerving belief in the sovereignty, or absolute power, of God. In such uncertain times, it’s not surprising that an emphasis on God’s timeless and ultimate power has found a following.
It’s also not surprising Calvinists would lead an emphasis on “regenerate church membership”—ensuring that church members have a vital, saving, personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. They would state it more precisely, but in essence they point to two facts: (a) if God is sovereign and Christ died for the church, then the church should take God’s power and Christ’s sacrifice seriously as it relates to its membership, and (b) if a person claims to have a saving relationship with God through the mediation of Christ, then he or she should live like it.
A potential danger of Ascol’s proposal is that Baptist Christians could tilt too much toward judgmentalism and fail to apply God’s grace. But given the fact Baptists can’t even find about half the members we count, and many of the ones we can find don’t live as if Christ has made a difference in their lives, judgment is a far lesser danger than the laxity of license.
If we love people whose names fill our church rolls but who never darken our church doors and who live like hell, we will draw up the courage to “lovingly correct” them. That’s difficult and uncomfortable. But the consequences are eternal.
Baptist ping from a a “4” point Calvinist.
The intent of church discipline is to restore the individual, not an eternal banishment from God’s people. If done properly, in a spirit of grace, potential land mines such as legalism can be avoided.
How many of your churches practice church discipline?
I personally know of one guy that was subject to “church discipline” because he refused to admit his part in the wronging of another person,
and he just moved down the street to the next church to become a member there,
and remained self-certain that he was in the right all along.
Unless churches have a mutual agreement as The Church to make such discipline “stick” - the individual cannot be restored.
“Regenerate church membership” seems to be a bit of a misnomer since no one can know with any certainty who is regenerate and who is not.
Reformed churches teach that the visible church “consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children” (Westminster Confession, 25:2). As children of Abraham we baptize our covenant children based on the profession of the parents.
What Baptists generally practice is “professing church membership” only allowing for the baptism (and hence membership) of those who cam make a profession of faith.
Previously posted: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2038569/posts
I did a search and couldn’t find it.
Aw geez...not another one of those "you are going to hell if you don't go to physical church" diatribes. If the churches would keep to scripture instead of telemarket evangelism and PC tolerance (e.g., acceptance of gay clergy, trying to "understand" Islam) maybe people like me wouldn't be so turned off by them. IMHO, going to a church like that amounts to a tacit acceptance of such practices, which would put my soul at risk and I am not willing to take that chance so they can meet some quota. And furthermore, how dare someone assume that I don't live like the Lord wants me to just because I don't attend their church...they should really heed what the Bible says about judgement, it is just another example of straying from sound scriptural doctrine.
All Calvinists are Christian. Not all Christians are Calvinist.
Do you ever quote your pastor? It’s no different than those of us who quote Calvin.
But that is, of course hyperbole. It might be a majority of churches, but when I hear statements like yours I sense that you are to lazy to look.
I only posted the link because there are some good comments in the thread.
Nope, not even close, just got tired of looking and being disappointed, and it is not hyperbole in the least. I bet you can’t show me one Baptist Church that hasn’t succumbed to the Rick Warren psychobabble preaching-for-profit scam. And even while they will study the Quran to “understand” Islam...I was very upset when my mother got involved with this study group...their so-called “tolerance” ends when you question their doctrine.
Thanks from just a plain ole Baptist :’)
I agree that a Christian doesn't have to be a Calvinist. Because I know people who are self-confessed Calvinists who retain unrepentent sin despite godly rebukes by other Christians and in one case, excommunication, I doubt that professing Calvinism makes one a Christian.
I have no issue with someone who quotes Calvin provided it is not assumed that Calvin's opinion ends all disputes. IMO, John Calvin was the best theologian who ever lived but he was not infallible.
I see your ping and your four points thanks.
I searched for older. I thought I had seen this somewhere, must be spending too much time on the internet.
I wouldn’t know about Baptists. But I know some Baptists who have decided there are greener theological pastures elsewhere.
Don’t give up on Christ’s church just because Baptists in your area have given up on you.
Amen.
Feel free to visit the one I attend every week and I'll be happy to do so.
You'd be well-advised not to make such insulting, laughably sweeping generalizations.
My point is that effective and fruitful discipline does not require universal agreement, no matter how advantageous such may be.
Oh really now...the numbers don't support your assertion that my statement is laughable, especially in Texas where I live. Rick Warren was the key speaker at the Texas Baptist General Convention last year. Per the article:
Warren has been called one of the most influential pastors in America by The Economist. Time magazine called him “America’s new people’s pastor” and named him among the top 25 most influential evangelicals in America. 5,600 congregations including 2.3 million people are affiliated with the Texas convention.
2.3 million...just in Texas, which is the largest state convention in the country. For the Baptist World Alliance, which also supports Warren, we are talking 110 million people. His book is the best selling hardback in U.S. history and he has a global network of more than 40,000 churches according to Time Magazine
The only thing that is laughable is fact that his psychobabble is being accepted.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. - 2 John 1:9-11
The Lord commands me not to have these people in my house, what would be the rationale for going to their house of worship? There is none, unless I want to risk my salvation, which I refuse to do.
I call my self a TUWIP instead of a TULIP
“Whosoever Will”
A Calvinist with a Lisp I like it
Mine did. I was the recipient of church discipline. And I'm grateful.
Thanks be to God.
I have Al Mohler on my iPod. I find his podcast very edifying.
My 11 year old is fond of Ask anything Wednesday. We will listen to the caller’s question, hit pause and try to figure out the proper answer for ourselves.
You said “Show me ONE.” Your clear meaning was that EVERY SINGLE Baptist church fell into the category you described...which is simply idiotic. You ought to admit you were exaggerating and overgeneralizing instead of compounding your folly.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.