Bare Knuckle Religious Discussion

6/25/08 | self

[svcw]

Just a thought.

It occurred to me that those on FR need a place to discuss religion, religious thought, denominal issues all things religious without worrying about hurt feelings or bruised egos.

This would be a bare knuckle discussion.

If you have thin skin or are easily offended it would be better not to participate.

[svcw]

As an example: I am a Bible believing spirit filled born again Christian. Yea, one of those wild ones. I love contemporary Christian music. I stand up when I sing, I lift my hands and sometime jump.

I really like the apostolic New Testament model for running a church group over the pastoral model.

I believe you are saved by grace not works but you will be known to the outside world by your works. That the most insulting thin that could be said to you is "you are a Christian?"

I believe tithes should be brought not collected.

You get the idea. Lets get a real discussion going here.

[mnehrling]

Isn’t this the point of (open) threads in the religion forum?

[stuartcr]

I just believe in God, non-denominational, non-judgemental, all-knowing, all-powerful, creator of everything.

[svcw]

Apparently not.
I had always thought so.

[1rudeboy]

I think the intention here is to bash Mormons while dropping the pretense of educational discourse.

[1rudeboy]

I think the intention here is to bash Mormons while dropping the pretense of educational discourse.

[Revelation 911]

I lift my hands and sometime jump.

heretic ;)

I really like the apostolic New Testament model for running a church group over the pastoral model.

oh my !

I believe you are saved by grace not works but you will be known to the outside world by your works. That the most insulting thin that could be said to you is "you are a Christian?"

the weather is nice today

I believe tithes should be brought not collected.

I prefer cheese

3......2........1......

[mnehrling]

I've seen, and been on a bunch of 'open' religion threads and they seem to be working well. The mods only seem to be slapping folks when they take open religion discussions to news threads or non-open threads, or people start attacking others personally: for example, you SVCW are a instrument of the devil because you like contemporary music- kidding, but I see a lot degrade to that and get slapped.

[Biblebelter]

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I concur with The Exposition of Revelation by Walter Scott on this verse. He believes that we are in the last age of the church which is the Laodicean age or worldly church age, and that this verse can be interpreted to mean that in the last age of the church Jesus is not in the TYPICAL church. That is why Jesus is outside the church knocking on the door.

[Revelation 911]

youre reading minds rudeboy

albeit wrongly

The purpose IMO is to have open discussion without a protected class - where ALL theologies are discussed, sometime bruisingly

If it aint your cup of tea - why visit the SBR?

[Revelation 911]

youre reading minds rudeboy

albeit wrongly

The purpose IMO is to have open discussion without a protected class - where ALL theologies are discussed, sometime bruisingly

If it aint your cup of tea - why visit the SBR?

[1rudeboy]

Come off it. If people want to troll Mormons (or issue fatwas), they should be honest about it. And I'm here. Deal with it.

[mkjessup]

I'd like to put in a plug for my church for this discussion, 'bare knuckles' sounds like a good approach, and if anybody don't like it, I'll sic Brother KILLER! on 'em!! LOL

[1rudeboy]

Come off it. If people want to troll Mormons (or issue fatwas), they should be honest about it. And I'm here. Deal with it.

[svcw]

Since lds was not mentioned, is there something you would like to say.
You saw what I believe, do you have a different opinion. I would like to know.

[1rudeboy]

Since lds was not mentioned, is there something you would like to say.

Just a smile and a wave to all the drama queens.

[svcw]

Would Geraldine be there?

[mnehrling]

Back to your comment.
I love what you said about tithes should be brought not collected. One thing that annoys me is churches who spend half of their service begging. To quote Bono, the God I believe in isn't short of Cash.

The church I've been attending (non denominational) never passes the plate or even mentions donations or tithes, with the only special exception is fund-raisers for a local homeless shelter or love offerings for people about to go out on mission trips (and even then it is a little mention, not a beg.) The funny thing is that financially, we are in much better shape than most other churches in town.

[svcw]

Ok then.
I don’t get your point but thats ok.

[ejonesie22]

When the LDS faithful decided to stick with educational discourse instead of sales tactics, victim-hood and finally insults, perhaps that can occur, for I am all for it, I have been studying up...

Unfortunately I hold out little hope, their training is pretty solid...

[mkjessup]

Would Geraldine be there?

No doubt about it, Sister Geraldine be leadin' the choir!

On a serious note, I think anytime we discuss religion, we need to keep at least a subtle sense of humor about it.

The bottom line for religious discussions is that we ought to be able to agree that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, there is Salvation in NO other Name but His, He IS Resurrected and alive forevermore, He and the Father are One (He said so!) and that He will return to this Earth just as He promised.

It is the Blood, the Blood, and nothing BUT the Blood of Jesus that Saves us and delivers us from damnation forever, into Eternal Life everlasting.

[ejonesie22]

When the LDS faithful decided to stick with educational discourse instead of sales tactics, victim-hood and finally insults, perhaps that can occur, for I am all for it, I have been studying up...

Unfortunately I hold out little hope, their training is pretty solid...

[svcw]

Tithing is a form of worship. So where I go there is a collection box in the front of the church so during singing people just bring it to the front.
Brought not collected.
Sometimes they drop it before or after the service.
Someone told me once that finances are talked more about in the New Testament than Salvation but I never counted up either one so cannot say for sure.

[jmc813]

I stand up when I sing, I lift my hands and sometime jump.

Please don't take this is a slam, but rather a genuine inquiry...What's with the hand-raising thing? There is a minority of people at my church (I'd say about 10-15%) who do this, seemingly arbitrarily to someone who doesn't know better. Are there specific lyrics/songs/etc. that you do this for? Thanks in advance, I've always felt too uncomfortable to ask the "hand-raisers" at church.

[jmc813]

I stand up when I sing, I lift my hands and sometime jump.

Please don't take this is a slam, but rather a genuine inquiry...What's with the hand-raising thing? There is a minority of people at my church (I'd say about 10-15%) who do this, seemingly arbitrarily to someone who doesn't know better. Are there specific lyrics/songs/etc. that you do this for? Thanks in advance, I've always felt too uncomfortable to ask the "hand-raisers" at church.

[jmc813]

Sorry for the double post. Is it me or does FR have computer AIDS today?

[svcw]

Amen

[ThomasThomas]

“I prefer cheese”

I remember singing that song when I was a kid.

Bringing in the Cheese
Bringing in the Cheese
We shall come rejoicing bringing in the cheese.

I wasn't sure what the church wanted whit all that cheese.

I have since learned of my error but that just makes the story boring.

[tacticalogic]

The bottom line for religious discussions is that we ought to be able to agree that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, there is Salvation in NO other Name but His, He IS Resurrected and alive forevermore, He and the Father are One (He said so!) and that He will return to this Earth just as He promised.

It is the Blood, the Blood, and nothing BUT the Blood of Jesus that Saves us and delivers us from damnation forever, into Eternal Life everlasting.

I'm not up for telling the Jews they're all going to hell.

[WarToad]

I believe God is not nearly as judgemental as men are against other men. Not that we won’t be held accountable, I’m just saying we tend to love to critique, criticize, and judge each other based in our own interpretaions and opinions. We are human afterall.

*pulls on flame suit*

[svcw]

Well. I believe I am singing to the Lord not to those around me.
When I lift my hands, I guess it is just a sign of respect. A form of praying, I just sort of do it. There are no particular words or songs that inspire me.
I believe worship is a joyous celebration of my love of God.
It is more of: when you come home from work and your kids fling themselves in your arms welcoming you home as opposed to them looking up up and saying, hey.
I am welcoming the presence of God to this place.

[svcw]

If anyone is interested.

[jmc813]

I believe God is not nearly as judgemental as men are against other men. Not that we won’t be held accountable, I’m just saying we tend to love to critique, criticize, and judge each other based in our own interpretaions and opinions.

There are several "South Park" episodes that touch on this theme. Religion, and equally lack thereof, are two things that make a lot of people ridiculously irrational.

[jmc813]

Fair enough answer. That’s exactly what I suspected. Just wanted to make sure there wasn’t some “secret code” I was unaware of.

[mnehrling]

We do it a little differently, we just have a box near the door. We don't have people bring it to the front. To us, it is a very private thing (kind of like a personal worship). I would love to look at the finance in the New Testament question as well. From just casual observation, I would not believe it unless they are really stretching some scripture to apply to finances.

I just have a major problem with churches who seem to be in the business of raising money. I've called it Churchanity for years. It is church for church sake versus for Christ's sake. I visited a church once that actually had a store and a coffee shop in the front. It was almost like a mall.

[ejonesie22]

It’s acting funky...

[svcw]

Oh. I would agree.
There are some who are so legalist that I believe they really cannot enjoy the love of Christ.

[1rudeboy]

(I'm Roman Catholic). I don't know about you, but hand-holding in church creeps me out. I go alone and sit where there's space. The last thing I want is some snot-nosed kid with the flu touching me.

And the holding hands/raising hands during the Lord's Prayer? What's up with that? I'm supposed to be praying, and I'm thinking to myself "these people look like they're praying for the Mothership to return."

[mkjessup]

I'm not up for telling the Jews they're all going to hell.

By Scriptural standards, if a person dies without Christ, they are lost forever (excluding children who have died before reaching whatever God determines to be their own age of accountability).

Jesus said 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, NOone cometh unto the Father except by Me.'

It isn't just the Jews, it's anyone who rejects Christ thinking they'll "find another way" to reach the Kingdom of God. "Religion", is man trying and failing to reach God. Jesus Christ is God successfully reaching mankind.

That's the plain and simple Truth.

[mnehrling]

I believe God is not nearly as judgemental as men are against other men.

Double and triple ditto that. Man judges actions he sees on the outside through his own glasses of experience. God, however, knows the heart intention of the person.

[tacticalogic]

If agreeing to that is a requirement to participate, I’ll pass.

[greyfoxx39]

I love what you said about tithes should be brought not collected. One thing that annoys me is churches who spend half of their service begging. To quote Bono, the God I believe in isn't short of Cash.

Tithes should be a gift of love, not seen as a requirement.

[WarToad]

Same here. I was raised in a quiet mid-western country church. The standing, hand-raising, praising-in-the-middle-of-a-sermon thing was never done. Ever. Impolite.

So it seems artificial and contrived to me. Don’t even go into “speaking in tongues” while rolling on the floor. I’ve actually left churches where the congregation gets into that stuff. Too distracting.

I know it’s just the way I was raised, but it seems odd.

[jmc813]

(I'm Roman Catholic). I don't know about you, but hand-holding in church creeps me out. I go alone and sit where there's space.

Other than the Catholic part, that describes my situation to a tee. Thankfully, the only time that happens is occasionally when there is a guest pastor.

[mnehrling]

I don't know about you, but hand-holding in church creeps me out.

Ditto that, and all the huggy people. Here in Texas, the latter is real bad. You can't even go to a formal service without everyone wanting to hug you. There are a lot of things I question as being 'man' inspired 'look at me' moments. My rule is, if you wouldn't act that way visiting the President or Queen, why would you act that way visiting God?

[Gamecock]

It’s not just you.

I thought I couldn’t get on because i had been sent to the FR outer darkness.

[colorcountry]

Just a smile and a wave to all the drama queens.

It seems that you might be the only one on this thread that fits the definition.

But U're cute. Post on!

[jmc813]

(excluding children who have died before reaching whatever God determines to be their own age of accountability)

What about people in African jungles, for instance, who have had no way of being exposed to Christian teachings?

[Fantasywriter]

I think you summed it up perfectly. So many Christians seem fixated on what divides us as opposed to the far more important truths that unite us. I had three members of a church I don’t belong to come to my house recently and try to strong arm me into going to their church—even after I explained that I was deeply involved in the ministry of the church I attend. They just kept probing and prying, trying to find a doctrinal gotcha so they could explain how wrong I was, and how only their denomination could set me straight. Even more recently I ran into an online guy who speaks in tongues, and who regards as inferior Christians—or as outright non-Christians—those who do not. My message of ‘the greatest of these is love’ fell on deaf ears. To me, that is very sad.

[mnehrling]

The bottom line for religious discussions is that we ought to be able to agree that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, there is Salvation in NO other Name but His, He IS Resurrected and alive forevermore, He and the Father are One (He said so!) and that He will return to this Earth just as He promised.

Aren't you now disqualifying all our FRiends who are Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc, etc, from religious discussion?