Posted on 06/14/2008 11:41:26 AM PDT by Ron Jeremy
Do you have an explanation of how the former slaves were able to achieve the melting point of gold?
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I’ve never spent a sleepless night worrying about that..
Why dont you ask God how that was done ???
Remember, the Hebrews used gold in the temple in the wilderness too..
Knowing how God chooses to melt gold will not effect your future place in eternity..
But whether or not you know Jesus will..
Do you know Jesus as your savior ???
Have you bheen born again ????
Jhn 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Jhn 3:2 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jhn 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jhn 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jhn 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Jhn 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Jhn 3:22 ¶ After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
Jhn 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Jhn 3:24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
Jhn 3:25 Then there arose a question between [some] of John’s disciples and the Jews about purifying.
Jhn 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all [men] come to him.
Jhn 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Jhn 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
Jhn 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Jhn 3:30 He must increase, but I [must] decrease.
Jhn 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Jhn 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Jhn 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:1-36
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15, 16
Too bad they didn’t realize that their slaves planned to steal it.
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So God is a thief ??????????????
The story and the process used to make the idol is vague, but there are clues -
Look at the components of the story - Aaron used a chisel/graving tool, this makes sense if the gold foil was put over a wooden object
the ear-rings were melted down “ molten” as the KJV says; remember too that we are dealing with Hebrew base words and concepts, so some have translated “maccekah” as molded. Another part of the definition of “maccekah” is a web, covering or veil. So basically, the method I laid out fits both within the ‘way the story is written’ as well as practical and known practices of that era.
Who said anything about God? The story says the slaves "borrowed" the jewelry and then hightailed it out of town.
Never mind the mass insanity that must have been in place in Egyptian society in order for them all to decide at once to loan jewelry to slaves.
You can't get your head around the fact that none of this makes any sense. Since it's in the text, it happened and that settles it.
Fine, that works for you. It doesn't for me.
It doesn't help things for me that the Exodus occurred during Egypt's Golden Age and intstead of Egypt being brought to its knees by the Exodus, there isn't even a hint that such a thing happened. And the Egyptians documented everything, including frontier battle losses.
I don't care what you choose to believe, especially if it gives you comfort. I prefer to search for the facts, even if that leaves unanswered questions in its wake.
I prefer to search for the facts, even if that leaves unanswered questions in its wake.
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Then I do hope you have been searching for the history of the lost cities and history of Nephi...
I think a better answer is that the Books of Moses were not written by Moses, especially since they continue their narrative after his death.
They are an early recounting of Jewish history, passed down through oral tradition and captured at a still very early point in time. But these were not eyewitness accounts.
The Israelites were never held as slaves in Egypt. There simply is no evidence, which should be there, to support it.
They migrated to modern day Israel from Mesopotamia. The references to the land of Ur, the Tigris and Euprhates, are common within the Old Testament. Even the “Pillar of Cloud by Day” and “Pillar of Fire by Night” referred to in Exodus only makes sense only as the volcanic eruption of Thera given the timeframe of the Exodus.
And it only makes sense if you’re moving toward it (and Canaan) from the Iraq area, not Egypt.
If there really was a Mt. Sinai, it would have been somewhere in Saudi Arabia, not a travel stop between Egypt and Israel.
Actually, the gold would not have to be melted if pounded into sheets/foil with which to cover a wooden image. But that doesn’t seem to suit the agenda you appear to have for raising doubt so ... carry on.
You are apparently woefully ignorant regarding the memorization traditions within Jewish faith. Boys were chosen from the fmailies to memorize the Torah for recitation. A child who showed promise in memory skills was ushered into the service of the community as a tool, also employed in commerce.
I’m not the one who put “molten” into the biblical text. If it doesn’t mean what it says, okay.
Don’t blame me.
Good point! ... The translators used ‘molten’ where they could have used a less rigorous wording which lends itself to ‘sheet making’, as in pounding a malleable metal into sheets. As to your other odd notions regarding Mt Sinai, well, Geography is something which has been understood for millenia, and though names for ‘mountains’ may change as the powers over the areas change, the languages are traceable and the locations are discernable.
Do you believe in the God of the Bibnle ???
Are you basing your salvation on whether or not gold can be molten or melted in the middle of the desert ???
Does it really matter if the surviving Egyptians did not manage to limp home from the Red Sea and record for prosperity their devastating ...not at the hands of an advancing well trained army...but by unarmed fleeing non-combatants, children, and an old man with a stick ????
devastating defeat
But history and archeology suggest that they are not historically accurate, and any biblical scholar or archaeologist is free to provide evidence to the contrary.
They've been unable to do so.
It doesn't matter to me whether they are literally true or not. I think they are figuratively true. But it just doesn't matter to me. The historical timeline is utterly false. Provably, without a doubt.
The bible is not a history textbook, nor is every word in it in true. It's not possible.
Wonder no more, for it is right in the book.
Exodus 32
1. When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him."
2. Aaron answered them, "Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me."
3. So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron.
4. He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt."
5. When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD."
6. So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.
7. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt.
8. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, `These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.'
(Remember; it does not bolster the LDS argument to point out perceived errors on the other side.)
I have no idea. I keep no records of posts I do.
(Come back in an hour and I'll have forgotten THIS one!)
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