Posted on 09/14/2007 11:18:23 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
No more permission needed for Latin Mass, cardinal says
Rome, Sep. 14, 2007 (CWNews.com) - With the formal implementation of Summorum Pontificum, the Pope's motu proprio providing wider access to the 1962 Roman Missal, diocesan priests do not need permission to celebrate the Latin Mass, a top Vatican official has stated.
Cardinal Dario Castrillon-Hoyos-- the president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, which supervises Vatican outreach to traditionalist Catholics-- says that "from this point, priests can decide to celebrate the Mass using the old rite, without permission from the Holy See or the bishop."
In an interview with Vatican Radio on September 13, broadcast just before the motu proprio officially took effect, Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos explained that Pope Benedict's motu proprio affirms the right of any priest to use the "extraordinary form" of the Latin liturgy. "It is, therefore, uncessary to ask for any other permission," he said.
Some diocesan bishops have cautioned their priests against using the 1962 Missal without explicit permission from the diocese. But the president of the Ecclesia Dei commission-- which would hear any appeals regarding the new liturgical rules-- contradicted that notion in his Vatican Radio appearance. While affirming the bishop's authority to resolve any liturgical conflicts within his diocese, the Colombian cardinal said that the bishop should exercise that power "without negating the right that the Pope has given to the entire Church."
Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos said that the motu proprio involves "no big change" in the liturgy of the Roman Church, since the older liturgy was never banned. Vatican II affirmed the freedoms of the faithful, he said, and one such freedom, which Pope Benedict has now confirmed, was access to the older liturgical form.
"Nothing is imposed on anyone" by Summorum Pontificum, the cardinal said. In allowing for greater use of the old Missal, he explained, Pope Benedict is merely "opening a possibility to the faithful who request it."
Regards, Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos, Ecclesia Dei Commission
If you quarrel, I will ZOT, says Cardinal...
Somebody sent me this from Rorate Caeli earlier today, and I sent it right on to a priest I know who wants to celebrate the TLM.
I live in the Diocese of St. Augustine, where the bishop is intent on killing the MP and rashly announced that priests couldn’t say the TLM even privately without his permission. Guess this takes care of that foolish statement!
And some are planning to require some sort of test on Latin or rubrics or both! And Cdl. O'Malley still thinks it's up to him to "expand" permission for the TLM if he sees fit.
In view of the fact that the USCCB Liturgy Committee had their meeting before August 17, and they planned to send their dubia, do you suppose they did and they got any answers yet?
That’s what this post is about, Mary. “If you send them, I will Zot.” It couldn’t be more clear.
They are stalling for time, but it will get stomped upon arrival. The Bishops are NOT those to whom requests are made; the pastors are. It is simple chain of command.
As a Bishop, how’d you like a phone call from Rome from His Holiness who, in his soft Bavarian voice begins by saying, “Are you going to make me come over zere to straighten you out soon-to-be Monsignor, my next legate to an Amazon village?”
F
"Don't make me come down there, mein lieber Freund!"
But what if they don't "send them"? I feel quite sure none of the questions submitted by the bishops will involve "may I require testing in Latin and rubrics before allowing a priest to say the TLM?" One bishop, IIRC, as some sort of "certification" planned.
I don't know how they'll handle outright hostility (even if circumspectly veiled) to the TLM from bishops whose priests are not dopes and who realize that crossing the bishop in this will not win them points!
Not all communications to the PCED will come from bishops. Priests and laity can appeal to PCED if their bishops are, um, unhelpful.
...as directly stipulated in the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum.
Except for those two Masses, though, it seems to be sliding past Boston, without even a nod. Of course, they're planning that RENEW International thing! And there's already word that Boston might be closing another 40 parishes -- I'm sure no pastor would want to cross O'Malley right now. Even if no words are spoken, and there's nothing you can put your finger on.
Of course, he's having that "extra" meeting with all the priests of the archdiocese today. My guess would be it's not to tell them where and when training for the TLM will be available!
Just seems so near and yet so far!
That doesn't seem to be the position that the Florida bishops have taken.
The Florida Bishops seem to be spoiling for a fight.
We shall see to what extent the Vatican is able to force recalcitrant Bishops to behave properly. In this case, they’re exceeding their authority.
As Sister Clarissa was fond of saying, “Patience is a virtue!”
I just watched about one hour of the Solemn High Mass being replayed on EWTN and want to catch Raymond Arroyo at 8:00 EDT so I am in and then out of here.
The homilist for the Mass, a member of the FSSP, unloaded with both barrels on the years of wandering in the wilderness and heavily quoted from Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict and so on. He made a powerful case to correct the discombobulation that many have over what “liturgy” is and how we participate. It was magnificent. It is from God and NOT from us. The homily was a classic, and I think many will get to hear it.
Just think, perhaps a billion people will see this Mass live, in Encore presentations, and I’m sure on videotape for sale because the Mass was glorious.
Bishops can line up from here to Toledo. They can’t send enough divisions to outflank a tiny Poor Clare nun named Angelica led by the Holy Spirit who has a TV station on every cable network around the globe.
Just watch and wait. It took 40 years to get here. Let’s see how soon things are undone. The Holy Spirit is running this show; he told Pope Benedict that it was time.
F
I’ll back the Pope... There are many Amazonian villages needing Monsignors at this time.
Message to His Holiness:
Be patient, cheerful, smile, and carry a big heavy strudel.
**Cardinal Dario Castrillon-Hoyos— the president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, which supervises Vatican outreach to traditionalist Catholics— says that “from this point, priests can decide to celebrate the Mass using the old rite, without permission from the Holy See or the bishop.”**
Cardinal, could you please contact Roger Cardinal Mahoney personally for us.
And some other American Bishops, PLEASE!
Love the hat!
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I just watched the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo, Archbishop Burke of St. Louis, Bishop D’Arcy of Indiana, and the Pastor at St. John Cantius. The discussion was totally on the Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificum. The main point of interest to many is as follows:
The youth are greatly interested in the TLM. This has been the witness of St. John Cantius. Also, priests are being trained all over the country by a number of organizations and are using the website, Sancta Missae. The rest is in the hands of the faithful.
Both Archbishop Burke and Bishop D’Arcy said that Catholics interested in the TLM on a “stable basis” (not just seeing it on one Sunday) need to find one another. Once a reasonable group is formed, the Bishop WILL try to facilitate a manner to get them hooked up with a priest at a parish which is accessible. One gent from Richmond wrote that most TLM Indult Masses are now in a rundown part of a city or in a Cemetery Mausoleum. Bishop D’Arcy spoke up and said that the way the M.P. is written focuses on the Bishop very closely because the laity can take their complaint to Rome. In another words, the ball is in our court. You may not get a TLM at YOUR Parish, but there should be a way to find one without me having to drive for 4 hours.
There is contention over the word “idoneus” in the M.P. which some Bishops are interpreting as anything from “proficient in Latin” to an expert. Archbishop Burke agreed essentially with Fr. Z. and said this meant capable: the priest may not know all the finesse of the Latin but must pronounce it so that it is not butchered. In time, this will not be a problem because young priests in the seminary are jumping all over this. Thus, the Florida Bishops are walking on “thin ice” as are some others.
So, it is not going to fall from heaven, FRiends. A group must be identified, some folks interested in singing Chant must be found, and servers must be located. Once that happens, a Bishop is duty-bound to assist (as they are doing in South Bend, IN) or the Ecclesia Dei Commission gets the Bishop’s license number and driver’s license and it goes to Papa Ratzi!
F
We’re having a meeting at the Una Voce chapter in JAX on Sunday to discuss strategy and then will be having a meeting with the “diocesan liturgist” (a modernist priest) of the Diocese of St. Augustine later in the week to get this worked out. I think our bishop has already backtracked a bit - now he says that he didn’t really mean that he was restricting the priests’ private mass, for example!
We are also working on getting names of people interested in attending regular Latin Masses, but we also have to fight back against the attempt that is being made to set an unrealistically high number (all registered members of the same parish!) or to prevent the priests from ever celebrating it because their Latin “isn’t good enough.” Like these creepy modernists know or care what good Latin is!
I hope this is going on all over Florida right now. I believe there is an initiative in the Orlando diocese, but I don’t know about the others.
bumpus ad summum
Listing of Latin Mass Churches in USA & Canada
http://web2.iadfw.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm
An AMAZON village?!! Careful, you might get our hetero Bishops to be tempted into disobeying...but it should be a good threat for the type of Bishop what is likely to buck this Pope!
Freegards
Sample letters for requesting the Extraordinary Form of the Holy Mass
I went to a TLM last night here in Boston. I was kind of surprised they weren't letting people sign up for a mailing list (or email list). I would have been glad to cough up a few dollars for postage. I only heard about this Mass through the kindly offices of FReepers by FReepmail -- no mention anywhere public -- like it would have killed them to throw a notice into parish bulletins (though I suppose here any pastor that allowed it would be a marked man!).
This is a bit too much like the catacombs, or the French Resistance during WWII!
Thank you, that’s great! I’m going to print these out and take them with me on Sunday.
It does make you feel that way! I was telling somebody in the parish who I thought might be a TLM fan about our plans, and I found myself saying that he could inform anybody else he thought it was "safe" to tell! Good grief! It's stunning that they have been able to make us feel like members of a terrorist cell for this.
He used to be an auxiliary in Boston. He was the one who spoke up and told Cdl. Law "You can't put him back into a parish!" about (I think) Geoghan. So he ended up in the midwest. I wish they'd made him archbishop of Boston!
They don't want Latin, and they don't want anybody else to have it either.
What are they so afraid of? (I think they suspect that a lot of the modernist emcee, clap-happy, lounge music stuff is NOT going to compare well with the Mass of the Ages. If they had confidence in "their way of doing things", they wouldn't be doing all this backbiting and digging in their heels.)
Oddly enough, the only Florida bishop who spoke up to support her was our bishop of St. Augustine - who is the leader in opposing the MP!
Well, that’s a good point. They obviously have no confidence that their way of doing things is going to win out - without a lot of dirty tricks.
To me, this has been like shining a light on cockroaches and sending them scurrying.
The MP in theory should not be any threat to the clergy (and the powerful “lay ministry” establishment) that are opposing it so bitterly. Yet they are afraid that the entire project they have built up for the last 40 years is going to topple, because they know it has no foundation, it’s built entirely on the ephemeral or perhaps chimerical “Spirit of Vatican II,” and that simply permitting the truth to return to a visible place in the Church will demolish it. It goes way beyond the form of the Mass and to the very foundation of the truth of the Church, and the way they are responding shows that they know this. Perhaps not even consciously, but they sense it.
There is a bishop here in Michigan, I'm not sure which, and I have been told he is making some sort of test a requirement.
I would add that Assumption Grotto in Detroit is now offering a Mass in the Extraordinary Form on Sundays at the 9:30 AM Mass complete with schola and choir. We had our first last night for the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.
Our cardinal’s approach is the disingenuous — no need for tests, because no one in North America (especially New England) is interested, and the Pope only invited him to that meeting in Rome on the MP (where he was one of the two Americans) because the Pope, apparently gunning for a gig at CNN International, just wanted to let him know what was going on in the rest of the world!
This Bishop will love being a Monsignor in the Amazon among the denizens who still hunt with poison darts!
Seriously, folks, the word used in the M.P. is “idoneus” which does not translate as Latinist, Ph.D. in Ancient Languages or a polyglot of tongues acceptable to the local Liturgy Chief, Sr. Max Planck. It means “capable” so that the language is “understandable.” I believe the Ecclesia Dei Commission is ready to take these guys on.
BTW, Mary, you posted the sermon of Fr. Z. You should try to read the homily of Fr. Goodwin of the F.S.S.P. given yesterday. It sent chills up my spine. It was beyond awesome and “laid down the gauntlet.” One portion mentioned that we use a “sacred language” that some may not understand although God does. He then asked what words did Mary say to Jesus as she waited at the foot of the Cross and yet the God-Man understood her heart and soul completely.
Perhaps “Fr. Bob” would not understand the concept of “sacralization”. That was a constant theme of Fr. Goodwin.
F
Don’t forget to email the site and give them the heads up.
Yes, I heard it -- that was before Comcast went over to Spike TV! It was very beautiful! Do you know whether the text is available on the internet?
Wasn't that section more like, "What did Mary say as she stood at the foot of the Cross? Nothing that ears could hear. What did she do as stood at the foot of the Cross? Nothing that eyes could see. And yet she participated more fully than imaginable in the suffering of her Son" -- I took it as a direct rebuff and rebuke to those who think "active participation" means jabbering incessantly and running hither and yon "helping" Father!
Wno is “Fr. Bob”????
Correct me if I’m wrong, Frank, but I think “Fr. Bob” is just the archetype of everything that went wrong with the “spirit of Vatican II.” A priest called not only by his first name, but by his nickname . . . certainly at his own insistence . . . functioning more as an emcee and entertainer rather than a minister of the Sacraments . . . and so forth.
A while after I posted, I wondered if that might be it . . . but at the time, I thought I must have missed something! ;-) (I get the same feeling with “inclusive language,” when someone uses a “she” intended to be generic — I always think “she who?” and go back looking for the antecedent I assume I’ve missed!)
My pet peeve is when people use “they” to avoid the male/generic personal pronoun . . . they’d rather fling down and dance on the rules of grammar than be thought “non-inclusive”.
Father Bob is frequently found hanging with Sister Snowflake. Sometimes they teach her “how to be a mystic” class together. But usually that’s too much effort for Father Bob, so he just picks up the remote and watches cartoons so he’ll have something to talk about in his homily.
I guess I was blocking it out! Oh, doctor — the headaches are coming back!
:)
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