Posted on 09/10/2007 5:27:36 AM PDT by xzins
Next came ....extraordinary turnabouts in John's life. A television addict for many years ....he enjoyed watching some of America's best-known evangelists—Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Jim Bakker, and Oral Roberts. In 1972 he had written ...to Roberts confessing his dependence on drugs and his fear of facing up to "the problems of life." He expressed regret that he had said that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus ...snip...he said,...Explain to me what Christianity can do for me. Is it phoney? Can He love me? I want out of hell."
....snip....
Over the following months he baffled those close to him by constantly praising "the Lord," writing Christian songs with titles like "Talking with Jesus" ...and trying to convert nonbelievers. ...snip...
Yoko questioned fiercely about the divinity of Christ, knowing that this was the teaching that John had always found the most difficult to accept. Their answers didn't satisfy her, and John began to waver in his commitment.
...snip...
....Bob Dylan recorded Slow Train Coming, a gospel album born out of personal experience. Dylan told Robert Hilburn of the Los Angeles Times that he'd recently accepted that "Jesus was real … I had this feeling, this vision and feeling. I truly had a born-again experience, if you want to call it that. ...
...snip....
(Lennon's) feelings about (Dylan's) conversion were expressed in his songwriting. He was particularly incensed by the track "Gotta Serve Somebody" because it opposed his view that there was no single truth. The song said, as bluntly as possible, that whatever your station in life, you were either serving God or the devil. This wasn't an avoidable choice. John wrote a riposte titled "Serve Yourself," arguing that no one can save you. The only person you have to serve is yourself.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
Dylan released "Slow Train" in late 1979. Lennon's problem surfaced shortly thereafter, and he responded with "Serve Yourself." The above comment in 1980 summed up Lennon's attitude toward Dylan's conversion. Lennon was killed in Dec 1980.
Fascinating. Thanks for the ping.
The link is also fascinating if you haven’t gone to it. It is classic: the seed that fell among thorns.
The seed was planted, but the soil was contaminated. Rather than seeking fellowship with others who have confessed Christ, Lennon walked in the counsel of the wicked, stood in the way of the sinners and sat in the seat of the scoffers.
Lennon looked at Jesus as "a way" whereas Dylan clearly looked at Jesus as "THE Way." If you come to Christ thinking that he is merely one of many ways to eternal life, then you are not coming to Christ. You are coming to a diety of your own creation.
I’d like to post the lyrics to Lennon’s song “Serve Yourself” that were an angry response to Dylan’s “Gotta Serve Somebody” but they are a bit off-color.
Hey, ReligMod, is it OK to post lyrics to Lennon’s song. They are liberally sprinkled with the f-word and other such delights.
It would be pulled. We pull many rap “lyrics” due to language.
I understand.
If I just leave the “f” and delete the remainder of the word, will that be sufficient editing?
from Reader's Digest,
on the album Only Visiting This Planet
Verve/MGM Records
Larry Norman, 1972
No - references to such words are also subject to being pulled.
Thanks. I’m not trying to be difficult....Just wanted to be within the rules.
It's a bit hard to discuss moral depravity in popular culture without some sort of reference to objective evidence of said depravity.
Dylan’s posture is that of a philosopher. Lennon’s was of a shill.
"Comedian/Actress" Kathy Griffin Tells Jesus Christ To "Suck It" In Emmy Acceptance Speech
Interesting, and sad. Seems like I read of a similar “seed/thorn” occurrence with some of the members of U2.
If the link is to something particularly nasty - pornography, etc. - it will be pulled. If it is to lyrics containing bad language it may survive (judgment call by the moderators on duty.)
Gotta Serve Somebody lyrics Bob Dylan
You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
Might be a rock’n’ roll adict prancing on the stage
Might have money and drugs at your commands, women in a cage
You may be a business man or some high degree thief
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a state trooper, you might be an young turk
You may be the head of some big TV network
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame
You may be living in another country under another name.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a construction worker working on a home
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome
You might own guns and you might even own tanks
You might be somebody’s landlord you might even own banks.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side
You may be working in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair
You may be somebody’s mistress, may be somebody’s heir.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed.
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
You may call me Terry, you may call me Jimmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything but no matter what you say.
You’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
John Lennon Serve Yourself Lyrics
Intro:
You say you found Jesus Christ
He’s the only one
You say you’ve found Buddha
Sittin’ in the sun
You say you found Mohammed
Facin’ to the East
You say you found Krishna
Dancin’ in the streets
Well there’s somethin’ missing in this God Almighty stew
And it’s your mother (your mother, don’t forget your mother, lad)
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do it for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do it for you
Well you may believe in devils and you may believe in lords
But if you don’t go out and serve yourself, lad, ain’t no room service here
It’s still the same old story
A bloody Holy War
A fight for love and glory
Ain’t gonna study war no more
A fight for God and country
We’re gonna set you free
We’ll put you back in the Stone Age
If you won’t be like me - get it?
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do for you
Well you may believe in devils and you may believe in lords
‘But Christ, you’re gonna have to serve yourself and that’s all there is to it.
So get right back here it’s in the bloody fridge. God, when I was a kid.
Didn’t have stuff like this, TV-(expletive)’ dinners and all that crap.
You (expletive) kids are all the (expletive) same! Want a (expletive) car now...
Lucky to have a pair of shoes!’
You tell me you found Jesus Christ
Well that’s great and he’s the only one
You say you just found Buddha
Sittin’ on his ass in the sun
You say you found Mohammed
Kneeling on a bloody carpet facin’ the East
You say you found Krishna
With a bald head dancin’ in the street (’Well, Christ, now you’re
being heard’)
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do for you
You got to serve yourself
Ain’t nobody gonna do for you (’that’s right, lad, you better get that straight
into your (expletive) head’)
You got to serve yourself (’you know that, who else is gonna do it for you, it
ain’t me I tell you that’)
Well, you may believe in Jesus, and you may believe in Marx
And you may believe in Marks and Spencer’s and you may believe in bloody
Woolworths
But there’s something missing in this whole bloody stew
And it’s your mother, your poor bloody mother (’she worked for you in the
back bedroom, full of (expletive) and (expletive) and (expletive) midwives. God, you can’t
forget that awful moment, you know. You should have been in the bloody
war, lad, and you would know all about it. Well, I’ll tell you something.’)
It’s still the same old story
A Holy bloody War, you know, with the Pope and all that stuff
A fight for love and glory
Ain’t gonna study no more war
A fight for God and country, and the Queen and all that
We’re gonna set you free
Bomb you back into the (expletive) Stone Age
If you won’t be like me, you know, get down on your knees and pray
Well there’s somethin’ missing in this God Almighty stew
And it’s your (expletive) mother you dirty little git, now
get in there and wash yer ears!
Thank you.
It is sad.
Could you have guessed ahead of time which would accept Christ and which would reject?
What an incredible sewer of a mind that man displayed!
At least we know he was focused on the central issue -- and rejected it.
see #23
BTW I'm rather amazed that Kathy Griffin was not struck down by lightning. But then that is a testament to the patience of God.
Oh My, Criticism of Mohammed.
If Lennon had published this song today, he'd probably be the target of an assasination attempt.
Oh wait, he already was.
Never mind.
The Lord is remarkably patient with sinners.
For which I'm grateful.
"Imagine there's no heaven" was when Lennon began actively, publicly campaigning against Christianity. In the case of Dylan, he was directly attacking a new Christian's faith in an effort to divert him.
Interestingly, with Paul, who was also actively campaigning against Christianity, God chose to open Paul's eyes and use him. His choice with Lennon was different.
But...wait. He DID open Lennon's eyes.
Lennon rejected.
Absolutely. Me, too.
I like to think Lennon might have come around if he had lived. He became a good father to his son and wrote “Beautiful Boy” because he finally understood what much of life was about...
“Close your eyes
Have no fear
The monster’s gone
He’s on the run and your daddy’s here
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Before you go to sleep
Say a little prayer
Every day in every way
It’s getting better and better
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Out on the ocean sailing away
I can hardly wait
To see you come of age
But I guess we’ll both just have to be patient
‘Cause it’s a long way to go
A hard row to hoe
Yes it’s a long way to go
But in the meantime
Before you cross the street
Take my hand
Life is what happens to you
While you’re busy making other plans
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Before you go to sleep
Say a little prayer
Every day in every way
It’s getting better and better
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Beautiful boy
Darling, darling, darling
Darling Sean”
Agreed. Sad as it was, I can at least respect (?) that sort of rejection, as opposed to these milquetoast "Christians" who give lip service to His deity yet want to ignore or twist the words (and Word) He spoke.
No, He didn't, or else Lennon would have seen and heard and understood and believed.
FWIW, I detest "Imagine." It's the anthem of the blind -- "Imagine nothingness; be the nothingness."
Smile on part A.
I agree on “imagine”...part B.
If you “imagine there’s no heaven” it might make Hell a little more tolerable.
Which is probably why the rich man got to see Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom.
He didn’t get to imagine that heaven didn’t exist.
As a compromise position may I say that God opened his eyes, but he did not have eyes to see. A blind man still walks around with his eyes wide open, but he still cannot see.
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: (Jeremiah 5:21 KJV)
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (Acts 28:27 KJV)
We can all argue about the reasons on another thread. :-)
But suffice it to say that Lennon was given the opportunity to turn from his sin, and to follow Christ and he returned to his sin and rejected Christ.
I don't think the Lennon/McCartney team will be writing praise songs together in heaven. AFAIK, The jury is still out on McCartney. I suspect the jury has returned with a verdict on Lennon.
"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." -- Luke 8:10
"Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." -- Deuteronomy 29:4
"That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." -- John 12:38-40"(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day." -- Romans 11:8
As you said, every man has eyes and ears and a heart, but some men's eyes and ears are incapable of seeing and hearing, and their heart remains dead.
One way or another, according to the will and purpose of God, the eyes and ears of God's children will be opened and they will be given a new heart with which to understand and believe.
That's the terrible and glorious fact of it.
I suspect the jury has returned with a verdict on Lennon.
Yep. In 1980, in fact, according to the judicial system established from before the foundation of the world.
Meant to ping you to God’s election in #37, too. 8~)
Just hoping for a Kumbaya moment.
” A blind man still walks around with his eyes wide open”
Hold it! I thought we covered that subject Friday.
I don’t know, if I had to see Yoko Ono naked I might not believe in God whatsoever
Is it too early to hijack this thread?
Oh wait.
We started it.
Can a Neener hijack a thread that a Neener started?
Does anyone have the Neener Rules of Order?
Could you have guessed ahead of time which would accept Christ and which would reject?
Yeah, and I'd have guessed wrong...
Goes to show that it is GOD who does ALL the work. The Holy Spirit comes down and changes and transforms lives.
Pity about Lennon. I thought he was an atheist (having penned the atheist's ballad 'imagine') - but when I first saw the title on this post, and the initial comments (on how Lennon tried to talk about Jesus) I had hopes that he had actually converted late in his life and I hadn't heard about it.
Unfortunately -- as you pointed out, it was just seeds amongst thorns. Sad.
bflr
Poor John.
What think ye of Christ?
Amen.
"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption" -- 1 Corinthians 1:30
I do have a “Neener Rules of Order.”
No one has said the opening prayer yet.
:>)
Yeah, but I bet those in hell now know for certain there's a heaven, and that knowledge only makes their eternity more dreadful.
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