Posted on 08/31/2007 4:49:24 PM PDT by xzins
“I’m glad somebody on this thread understands that! I’m getting really irked by the “clinical diagnosis” and other kinds of dismissals!”
One of the saddest, and perhaps the most dangerous, aspects of modern Western society is its dismissal of the concept of “evil”, or better yet, of the Evil One, from whom, in fact, we ask God to deliver us (not simply from some free floating “evil” as the English would have it) in the final words of the Lord’s Prayer. As Alex once observed, the West has a problem with accepting the reality of Evil.
Holiness attracts evil, greater holiness, greater evil.
I think some of the comments on the recent threads about Blessed Mother Teresa demonstrate this strongly - a visceral rejection that there is even such a thing as "greater holiness."
“Good morning, K. Howzit with your Greekness?”
Aside from the fact that the family lost two houses in the fires down in the old country and we here are moving home from the cottage, well enough so as to sit up and take nourishment, thanks to God!
And good morning to you, dear lady. I trust you and yours came through the summer well.
It gives me goosebumps when saintly Christians reach across the Catholic-Protestant rift.
My heart has always been content to let Jews be Jews and love them from a distance, but Christians belong together.
I'm so sorry to hear that! I thought of you when I saw the news reports about the fire.
We're leaving tomorrow for a week's vacation; we've rented a house at a nearby lake, and some friends from Oklahoma will be joining us for a few days.
The summer was okay. Everyone enjoyed their camps. The boys are breeding lizards, Anoreth's hair is magenta, and the little boys are a constant riot.
“Anoreth’s hair is magenta,”
Interesting choice.
It was blue last month (Pat selected it ...). Magenta is better! Temporary color; it lasts about 3 weeks.
"...even though I walk through the valley of of dark night of my soul, I shall fear lots of evil, for thou mightest have abandonded me...Oh Absent One"
How comforting is the Christian life. This should be great for evangelism. Repent and doubt the gospel along with us.
Leanne Payne always teaches — “It does not say, in the Bible, ‘You will FEEL my presence.’ The Lord simply says, ‘I am with you always.’” It is a huge difference.
I saw on Utube a video of a man who is able to draw a perfect picture of cities from a single flight back and forth across them: London, Rome Tokoyo. Mt point being that despite all the talk, we don’t have a clue about the actual workings of the human mind. The materialists want to reduce everything to “matter.” Bishop Berkeley made hash of the notion of “matter” more than 200 years ago. But this has no kept modern philosophers from trying to reduce all things to this absurdity.
Excellent lesson. Thanks.
thanks for posting that. God bless Liz Lev.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel.
4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 “He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.
19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.
I think perhaps you may have misunderstood the nature of the "crisis" that Mother Teresa expressed in her letters. The excerpts printed in the article do not reflect a doubt of the gospel or God. Consider:
In correspondents to her spiritual confidants, Mother Teresa laments on the “dryness,” “darkness,” “loneliness,” and “torture” she suffers with her inability to feel God’s presence. . . . . Another letter in 1956 read: “Such deep longing for God – and…repulsed – empty – no faith – no love – no zeal. – [The saving of] Souls holds no attraction – Heaven means nothing – pray for me please that I keep smiling at Him in spite of everything.”
I see no doubting of God, but rather a deep personal depression. The lesson could be that even saints get depressed.
And why not? Jesus Christ, the greatest of all, suffered in body and soul. As Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah:
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:3–11)
Is that message "great for evangelism"? Apparently Jesus thought so:
23 ¶ And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9: 23; see also Matt. 16: 24, Mark 8: 34, Mark 10: 21)27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14: 27; see also Matt. 10: 38, )
As for Jesus saying "why have you forsaken me," He was about to die; he was at that moment experiencing the divine wrath on Himself as sin-bearer. All of this was in perfect fulfilment of prophecy and Jesus knew it. Surely you do not think Jesus at that moment was doubting the Father.
. . Another letter in 1956 read: “Such deep longing for God – and…repulsed – empty – no faith – no love – no zeal. – [The saving of] Souls holds no attraction – Heaven means nothing – pray for me please that I keep smiling at Him in spite of everything.”
You can't equate that to ANYTHING Jesus said.
I do not believe Teresa was a true believer since she thought everyone who believed in some religion would also go to heaven. She was quite unorthodox. Maybe those idols in her dwelling were an obstacle. It is strange how many people think she must be a true Christian because she did so much charity work and lived in chosen poverty. But does that save anyone?
That is a rather strange response to a passage of scripture...
Do you elevate her faith because of her works? Who ‘did’ the works... was it Mother Teresa, or God? Do we glorify and honour Mother Teresa for her ‘good’ works, or do we give praise to God?
As to your comments on Psalm 22, I suggest you read them, and let the text speak for itself. It does not say that Christ doubted (which is why I did not post the first line alone), but it does say much about the reality behind our doubts.
...for He has done it.
It really isn’t for us to know who is saved and who isn’t, that is for God who knows the innermost protions of our hearts.
With that stated, I can look and read these letters from the perspective of faith through Christ and understand how a fellow believer might be tested in any number of ways, such that they don’t have an immediately recognized fellowship with Him, although they are remaining faithful. This is in fact what our Lord experienced when he was judged for us on the Cross, but still remained faithful throughout.
For every cursing there is a blessing through faith in Christ. The last thing we want to do is turn a blessing into a cursing by thinking independently from Him.
I agree also, that an unbeliever might also experience such pangs of loneliness and also sense no sense of hope.
In that sense, I would agree with you that our assurance of salvation and hope is based all upon our Lord, Christ Jesus.
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