Posted on 07/27/2007 11:23:09 AM PDT by NYer
“Is the candidate worthy?” intoned Bishop Patricia Fresen ceremonially, as lifelong Catholic Juanita Cordero stood before her in a pure white gown, about to be ordained as a priest. The question was asked three times during the ordination ceremony on Sunday, July 22, as one female priest and two female deacons were invested with the power to perform sacraments — a function forbidden to women under canon law. They are part of a movement from within the Roman Catholic Church that has been ordaining female priests since 2002, though those involved say that the tradition of women priests and bishops dates as far back as Mary Magdalene, whom they consider an apostle of Jesus. The participants in this movement fervently hope to be embraced by the Vatican, as other splinter groups have been before them.
Sunday’s ordination, witnessed by more than 100 invited guests, took place at an interfaith center in Santa Barbara that reporters agreed not to name in exchange for an invitation to attend. (Reporters also agreed not to print the names or orders of the nuns in attendance.) The women ordained Sunday join 18 others in North America who belong to an international organization called Roman Catholic Women Priests, which counts among its number approximately 50 female priests and deacons worldwide, including a few whose identities remain undisclosed in an effort to protect their jobs within the church. Also secret are the identities of the male bishops who ordained Bishop Fresen. Film and documentary evidence of that ceremony is being kept by a notary public, not to be released until the deaths of the male bishops.
At least two Santa Barbara women are studying to be ordained, perhaps as early as next year. Besides their gender deviating from the Catholic priest norm, neither the priest nor the two deacons ordained on Sunday — who are scheduled for re-ordination as priests on July 28 — is celibate. Norma Coon, of San Diego, has been married for 40 years. Toni Tortorilla, of Portland, lives with her lesbian partner. Cordero, a newly anointed priest who lives in San Luis Obispo, is a former nun who has been married for 30 years to a former Jesuit priest.
The ceremony, which took place on the feast day of Mary Magdalene, also differed from the standard Catholic ordination in the names the presiding clergy used for God, who is ordinarily referred to as “the Father.” The female priests instead referred to “Mother and Father” and to “God/de.” (The latter is pronounced like “God,” with the silent, extra letters hinting at a goddess that those in the ceremony declined to refer to explicitly.) Jesus Christ retained his masculine identity, however.
The reason that the women are determined to remain Roman Catholics, instead of forming their own church or joining another — such as the Episcopal Church, which ordains female clergy — is that they consider the Roman Catholic Church to be their family, albeit a dysfunctional one, and they have no intention of abandoning it. “It’s in my bones,” said Fresen. “It’s in my blood. There are a lot of things wrong within the church, but I love it, and the only way to change it is to stay.” They added that excommunication, contrary to popular belief, does not remove one from the church; it only means that one cannot receive the sacraments. “Nothing can put you out of the church once you have been baptized,” said Fresen. However, after the first seven women priests ordained on the Danube in 2002 were promptly excommunicated, none of the other ordained females has been excommunicated.
“The meaningfulness of the Catholic tradition to me is the long history of mysticism in the church,” said priest Victoria Rue, who also teaches theology and theater at San Jose State University. She finds particular inspiration in the women mystics of the Middle Ages. “Priesthood,” added Rue, “is about leadership within the community.” There are many types of ministries to which people are called, she said, concluding, “I feel called to the ministry of the liturgy,” which she described as communal worship.
"The reason that the women are determined to remain Roman Catholics, instead of forming their own church or joining another — such as the Episcopal Church, which ordains female clergy — is that they consider the Roman Catholic Church to be their family, albeit a dysfunctional one, and they have no intention of abandoning it."
ROFL!!
Well they can call themselves anything they want. In reality, they are heretics.
“At least two Santa Barbara women are studying to be ordained, perhaps as early as next year. Besides their gender deviating from the Catholic priest norm, neither the priest nor the two deacons ordained on Sunday — who are scheduled for re-ordination as priests on July 28 — is celibate. Norma Coon, of San Diego, has been married for 40 years. Toni Tortorilla, of Portland, lives with her lesbian partner. Cordero, a newly anointed priest who lives in San Luis Obispo, is a former nun who has been married for 30 years to a former Jesuit priest.”
GAG ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where’s some heavenly lightening when you need it???
Shall we? I'll begin .... Here's my first guess.
Sister Joan Chittister
The participants in this movement must be fervently smoking crack cocaine!
Someone needs to start calling them Excommunicated and I believe that someone is called the Pope!
THAT’S A MAN, BABY!
NO.
Now go away.
>>THAT’S A MAN, BABY!<<
She wishes.
Gode? Ghads, people just...
>>The participants in this movement must be fervently smoking crack cocaine!<<
FReeper Post of the Day!
oh, GAG me!
-we should be grateful that that stuff isn’t going on here...oh, wait, it IS in Rochester. RME
Santa Barbara is in the archdiocese of Los Angeles — quelle surprise!
All the while the "young fogey" traditional and orthodox Catholics are suiting up to clear the stables after 40 years. And unlike the 'womynpriest' crowd, the orthodox Catholics actually have priests that are real priests.
They added that excommunication, contrary to popular belief, does not remove one from the church; it only means that one cannot receive the sacraments. “Nothing can put you out of the church once you have been baptized,”
Every member of the Church Militant who obstinately remains separated from Holy Mother Church by sin or schism risks not having a place in the Church Triumphant.
Something about millstones come to mind...
Uh, calling yourself a Catholic doesn't necessarily make you one.
“It’s in my blood. There are a lot of things wrong within the church, but I love it, and the only way to change it is to stay.”
These women seem like such dodos that you have to wonder about their moral culpability.
What other "splinter groups"? Anyone have any idea what they're talking about?
Sigh.
You just know that there was a meeting about this one too.
Hi.
My name is Napoleon.
I’m an emperor.
Maybe that's because they hide their names and the place where this goofyness took place. But God knows.
Correction — schism
Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus
Caius Caesar Caligula
“...took place at an interfaith center in Santa Barbara that reporters agreed not to name in exchange for an invitation to attend...”
Hmmm.... Look at the picture. I see an obviously modern (as in ugly) building with permanent stations of the cross imbedded in the wall (and, from the looks of it, the AC duct). Looks like a Catholic church bldg to me. Anyone else think so? Why else would the location be so “secret.”
Anyone here from Santa Barbara and recognize the interior? Some “progressive” parish priest may have some ‘splaining to do....
For the conversion of sinners.
"We got bored with wearing Mommy's high-heels! Wearing Father's chasuble is ever so much more fun!"
I see only a red x!
Is it just me?
LOVE IT!
Them saying they are catholic is like me saying I’m a roman centurion. Saying it all they want does not make it so.
This is very much like those who practice polygamy, yet call themselves "Mormon". I can empathize with the annoyance it might cause.
>>This is very much like those who practice polygamy, yet call themselves “Mormon”.<<
Bugs me too.
If one is not listening to the actual rules of that denomination, they are no longer of that denomination.
Come on everyone. This is a logical extension of the doctrine of making it all up as you go along.
They are part of a movement from within the Roman Catholic Church
No, all of these women, the male bishop(s) that "ordained" the first ones, and (if my understanding is correct) all those who participate willingly in their ceremonies are excommunicated latae sententiae (which means they've excommunicated themselves and may or may not receive a formal notice of excommunication).
that has been ordaining female priests since 2002,
Attempting to ordain is more accurate. They could attempt to ordain a duck or a chair or anything else that is not considered valid matter for the Sacrament of Holy Orders and have the same result: bupkis. The only valid matter is a validly baptized man.
though those involved say that the tradition of women priests and bishops dates as far back as Mary Magdalene, whom they consider an apostle of Jesus.
Dubious scholarship at best. From all orthodox scholarship, there is no evidence that Mary Magdalene was considered an apostle on par with the Twelve and their successors.
The participants in this movement fervently hope to be embraced by the Vatican, as other splinter groups have been before them
Given the nature of the documents Inter Insignores (1976) and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (1994), the latter of which a number of Catholic scholars considers to contain an infallible statement regarding the ordination of women, I think not.
uh.....no longer Catholic, let alone a Catholic PRIEST! Man, they are dancing on the trapdoor of hell.
She's trying. Nobody's that ugly unless they try to be.
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6543/1101/1600/183163/snl_1475_wkndupdate05.jpg
lol!
Assuming that the incident described above happened as stated, and that the male bishops involved were Roman Catholics, one is moved to wonder what consequences follow from the automatic excommunications prescribed by Canon 1382 ("Both the Bishop who, without a pontifical mandate, consecrates a person a Bishop, and the one who receives the consecration from him, incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See"). It's not unthinkable that a couple retired bishops could be sufficiently loose in the hinges to attempt this prank. Since it's all secret, however, we won't know who they are or the date on which they excommunicated themselves for some time. Presumably the sacraments they perform are valid even after their excommunication, but it's odd to think that one's confirmation or consecration might be effected by a man revealed after the fact to have been a non-Catholic. The theological force of episcopal collegiality, moreover, is stretched to the breaking point by the image of patchwork communion. If Bishop X is buried in the cathedral crypt, will they disinter him after the video surfaces and re-bury him in partibus infidelium?Maybe it'll turn out to be a hoax, and the "male bishops" merely part-time kleagles hired from one of those goofy autocephalous outfits. But the general drowsiness with which many Catholic ecclesiastics treat of the sacraments suggests they view their ordination in the same terms as Patricia Fresen and company: a ritual of empowerment conferring the confidence to preach, counsel, and lead the singing of hymns. Do you get the sense the college of bishops is as keen to spy out the offenders in their midst as a college of surgeons would be to rid themselves of impostors in theirs?
I can call my dog a cat but that doesn’t mean it can climb trees.
These people are pretending to be Catholic while they clearly are NOT!
Yes, that makes sense. As an outsider, I have been very blessed over the last year and a half to have learned much about the Roman Catholic faith from good Catholic Freepers. I know the cranks in the article are not practicing Catholicism. The other arena I think I've heard the term "excommunicated latae sententiae" was regarding publicly pro-abortion politicians taking the Eucharist. Is that correct? It may not be since it is my understanding that a priest or Bishop has some discretion on whether to administer the sacrament in those cases, so I wouldn't think that he (priest) would excommunicate himself for "participating".
Attempting to ordain is more accurate.
That's what I figured. I noticed that the ceremony did not take place in a Catholic Church, and presumably never will.
From all orthodox scholarship, there is no evidence that Mary Magdalene was considered an apostle on par with the Twelve and their successors.
I agree. With something that big, if that was God's intent He would have told us so.
“Someone needs to start calling them Excommunicated and I believe that someone is called the Pope!”
Aren’t these people automatically excommunicated anyways? Well, it would be nice if their local ordinary excommunicated them, but the Pope would do nicely.
Now, if they were in Omaha—Bruskewitz territory—he would have excommunicated them faster than lightning.
Does anyone know how often the Pope hears about these things? He’s obviously not on FreeRepublic or searching the blogosphere...
"Latae sententiae" is basically automatic excommunication, without an actual decree. It's been most commonly discussed in recent years in connection with abortion. There are several bishops who have made it plain that they will not give Communion to politicians who support abortion. Other bishops are, shall we say, more lax. I think the Pope has said that pro-abortion politicians should not receive.
It's unclear exactly where the "ceremony" took place -- a poster above thinks those square things look like Stations of the Cross, which would mean it is a Catholic church of sorts (yes, sadly, some of them do look like that nowadays!). I think the article says it's some sort of "interfaith community" (whatever that means) near Santa Barbara. The name is withheld to protect the guilty -- who don't want to lose their jobs -- with the Church!
Yes ... I saw that AFTER I posted this thread. He does an excellent job of disecting the news report; calls them Unitarians.. lol! Once again, the media show their ignorance and use these opportunities to drive confusion amongst the faithful. (shaking head)
Halloween came early for some kids this year.
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