Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Did you mean to say after he was resurrected?
“I know that the Mormon bashing will go on unabated and it wouldn’t be any fun if it stopped”
Of course, the Pope’s current statement makes the questioning of JFK’s catholicism valid. But let’s be clear, Mormons claim in effect that their religion predates Christianity (both Catholic and protestant), so why they want to call themselves Christians is beyond me.
What they are really trying to say is everyone else is a failed Mormon.
I used to hear that term from my aunt. they are not proper catholic. she didnt’ consider me married because I got married in the methodist church. I left the church with my parents when I was 13. only been back for funerals. The catholic church is so tunnel visioned on importing the third world to keep their membership up, that I cannot stomach being a member there.
I will agree, Life is a miracle ^_^ It is probably the greatest mystery in the universe. The journey of discovering its secrets will be fun.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (Romans 1:22 KJV)
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (Matthew 24:38 KJV)
Whom to believe? Jesus or LeGrand the Magic Scientist?
I'll chose Jesus.
I am trying to understand why the catholic church is doing so much protestant bashing.
Allah is not the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Israel !How do you come to this understanding?
So are all the mormon haters beginning to see what is like to be hated because of what some believe to be false teaching? I guess everyone is mormon these days.
LOL
Yes, the founders were all dead when the con man made up Mormonism. I didn’t mean to imply they were alive. I was talking about how the Founders only meant that Protestantism was a proper Christian religion. Sorry for my misspeaking there.
Really? When I used to live in Virginia I'd regularly have Baptists, upon learning I am RC, ask me "so how does a Catholic get to heaven?"
My recollection is hazy. I seem to recall that it was both while he was in the womb and the three days before he was resurrected. I could be wrong ^_^ Since they felt the wounds, it would make more sense after the resurrection.
So how does a Catholic get to heaven?
Don't you believe that Christ is God? Don't you believe that Christ is the God of Abraham? I am sorry, you must not believe that the true religion existed until Christ was born, that is interesting.
So what evidence do you have that the Noah’s Ark story isn’t a fable?
RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS
OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH
What is the meaning of the affirmation that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church?
Response: Christ “established here on earth” only one Church and instituted it as a “visible and spiritual community”[5], that from its beginning and throughout the centuries has always existed and will always exist, and in which alone are found all the elements that Christ himself instituted.[6] “This one Church of Christ, which we confess in the Creed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic […]. This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him”[7].
In number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium ‘subsistence’ means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church[8], in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth.
It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.[9] Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe... in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.[10]
Third Question: Why was the expression “subsists in” adopted instead of the simple word “is”?
Response: The use of this expression, which indicates the full identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, does not change the doctrine on the Church. Rather, it comes from and brings out more clearly the fact that there are “numerous elements of sanctification and of truth” which are found outside her structure, but which “as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic Unity”[11].
“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”[12].
Fourth Question: Why does the Second Vatican Council use the term “Church” in reference to the oriental Churches separated from full communion with the Catholic Church?
Response: The Council wanted to adopt the traditional use of the term. “Because these Churches, although separated, have true sacraments and above all – because of the apostolic succession – the priesthood and the Eucharist, by means of which they remain linked to us by very close bonds”[13], they merit the title of “particular or local Churches”[14], and are called sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches[15].
“It is through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches that the Church of God is built up and grows in stature”[16]. However, since communion with the Catholic Church, the visible head of which is the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter, is not some external complement to a particular Church but rather one of its internal constitutive principles, these venerable Christian communities lack something in their condition as particular churches[17].
On the other hand, because of the division between Christians, the fullness of universality, which is proper to the Church governed by the Successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him, is not fully realised in history[18].
Fifth Question: Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?
Response: According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery[19] cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense[20].
The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, ratified and confirmed these Responses, adopted in the Plenary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their publication.
Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 29, 2007, the Solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul.
Ever heard of Ishmael?
Coming from an atheist ex-momron, I am not sure how to take that, or even if I want to figure out how to take it. :)
Although I do not care what others think about the quality of my faith, I very much DO care about error being exposed and Truth being spoken. Sometimes (not often) I am the one called to do that, sometimes I am not but do anyway :(. But more often I see that His Truth is being spoken and so, my part is to pray.
Which Protestant Religion did they specifically refer to? So Catholicism isn't a proper Christian religion? Do you believe in the Nicaean Creed?
Lets see, first I do not pretend to be a Christian I am a Christian.
The pope, huh, do I care what this man thinks about my salvation - ahuh NO.
Anyway, thanks for playing.
(Matthew 24:38 KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
(Matthew 24:39 KJV) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(Luke 17:27 KJV) They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Is Christ a liar?
It was Christ who sent the flood.
He would know.
He was there.
You weren't.
You are right. Science doesn't have all the answers, yet. Still a scientifice guess is better than religious dogma ^_^
Coming from an atheist ex-momron, I am not sure how to take that, or even if I want to figure out how to take it. :)
I am not sure I do either. Where did I say that?
The Book of Mormon record shows that he visited the America’s after his resurrection.
haha.. I have NO clue where that came from! I was just replying to your comment that was in italics. And at first I didn’t know why you typed it. So I went back to my post and was suprised to see it there. I do not remember reading it, I know that I did not type it, I do not remember seeing it on the post preview!! Weird...
I understand, but those things are not the reasons Catholicism does not recognize Prot. denominations as Churches. The Orthodox don't exactly like our formulation of those ideas either (BTW 3 is still very up for debate and I particularly don't like it very much), and yet they are considered proper Churches.
Where the rubber meets the road is, as jude24 very astutely said above, sacramental theology. Catholics believe that the sacraments were instituted by Christ to dispense grace among the faithful. The Church is where the sacraments are. Where they do not exist in their true fulness, there cannot be the Church.
When you good folks hear us say that though, (and please correct me if I am mistaken), you hear that phrase as a total denial that you are Christian at all. Because you view the Church as an invisible institution solely of those who have believed in Christ.
It is very important for non-Catholics to view this document in terms of *our own* ecclesiology, and not any one else's. We go by the sacraments, not just a sinner's prayer. And note well that we recognize one of your sacraments (Baptism) as valid...so we are forced to recognize that there is some element of the Church among you, even if the other sacraments are not.
It was Christ who sent the flood.
He would know.
He was there.
You weren't.
Wow, that is irrefutable logic ^_^ ROFLMAO
How did the Koala bears make it to Noah's Ark?
So what do you pretend to be? : )
I stand corrected. Thank you.
John Paul II affirmed this same point many times.
Indeed. Either Noah and the ark is a true story or Christ is a liar.
Which is it?
I am a seeker of truth. Most people call me an atheist ^_^
I also like to poke fun at Fundamentalist Born Agains, who attack other religions.
.
Ever heard of Ishmael?
116 posted on 07/11/2007 7:57:40 AM MDT by LeGrande
Abram became Abraham Abram became Abraham when Elohim breathed into Abram Sarai became Sarah Sarai became Sarah when Elohim breathed into Sarai See the letter : Hey Ishmael was born to Abram, when Abram was in the flesh, before Elohim breathed the Ru'ach HaKodesh into him. Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah after Elohim breathed the Ru'ach HaKodesh into both of them. So even if Muslims are descendants of Ishmael, Ishmael did not worship the Elohim of Abraham. A study on the breath of Elohim:
b'shem Yah'shua
the Ru'ach HaKodesh as indicated by the "HEY" at the end of his name.
the Ru'ach HaKodesh as indicated by the "HEY" at the end of her name.
There are 30,000 Christian sects. So far and counting. That’s probably fewer than other major religions.
Claud, where the rubber meets the road is Jesus saying that those who worship must worship in Spirit and in Truth.
Those who teach obvious, made-up UNTRUTH cannot be the true Church, no matter if they’ve got sacramental theology coming out their ears, complete with real-life, true splinters from the actual Golgotha cross itself and the factual, actual Holy Grail to drink from.
Human lineage is of no importance. Props are of no importance. SPIRITUAL, TRUTHFUL worship is what matters. The RC FLUNKS the test with a number of things, the most egregious being: assumption, immaculate conception, and coredemption of Mary.
For all his vaunted, entirely too opulent status, Pope Benedict is an empty vessl, “pontificating” foolishness, traditions of men, and UNTRUTH.
So, then, you concede Osama bin Laden’s brand of Islam is just as much the one, true religion as the Anglicans?
in answer to the posters
That's the difference between a Christian and a Catholic...
Maybe I need another cup of coffee. I'm not understanding how you connect the two
Or do YOU need another cup of joe
Poke less.
FRegards,
Why wait? LOL
You've never met my family, have you?
“Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.
How do you come to this understanding?”
It gives us warm fuzzies all over.
News - Peter was NOT the lead Apostle after the crucification
Can you be serious?
The first thought here! : )
Who was the lead Apostle after the Crucification?
Starting with whom?
Who was the frist head Apostle after Christ?
Only some???? ROTFL!
Oh, well a scientist! That is a whole other religion in itself!
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