Posted on 12/09/2006 11:12:03 AM PST by stfassisi
You're right. And that belief includes adherence to the Lord's proclamations to Peter.
See #60
Yes, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of which I am a member.
Man-made with the divine guidance of the Holy Spirit! BTW, whom do you think collated what makes up the New Testament? If you believe the Bible to be infallible and all men (after the Apostles died) fallible, how do you account for those who decided which documents would classify as Holy Scripture?
Was Peter ordained a Pope? I don't believe so.
Yep, through Mary to Jesus, and through Jesus to the Father.
Always Right: Most Christians believe we obtain grace directly from Christ.
So, I would venture, do most Catholics. But if you reprove me for doing something unchristian or vicious or impious or if you encourage me when I am downcast, that is grace from Christ through you. By the grace of God we have the really mquite astonsihing privilege of helping in the distribution of graces. It's wonderful! A smile on a rough day, a compliment, a reproof, a word of discernment ... sometimes even a resolve of will or a thought that I am confident didn't come from me but was mediated to me through the loving angel who, in the overflowing compassion of God was detailed to help keep me out of trouble.... I think Graces come in all directions. They're worse then no-see-ums!
AmericaUnited Why should someone pray to Mary, if they can pray directly to Jesus?
For the same kind of reason that I might ask you to pray for me or with me.
Bipolar Bob doubt that abortion was that common in that era and therefore doubt this statement
Well the Luke records her saying "I am the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to Thy will." That's the assent to which this refers.
i> I receive Jesus through the Holy Spirit ...
Yep.
I hope everyone in this thread knows why people do various 'inspirational' religious activities.
Praying the Rosary is an inspirational activity, both in the conventional sense and the literal sense of the word -- at least in my experience.
My question was why you felt people found it easier to pray to Mary, rather than their Heavenly Father.
I wouldn't know about "rather than". I know that I pray to fellow Christians, but usually in a more normal way, as in "Pray for me, I'm going through a tough time," which I might say to anyone of my Christian co-workers or family. I also say it, one way or another to St. Anthony, St. Dominic, and St. Mary, because I feel like they are AT LEAST friends in the faith. I also pray to the three persons of the Trinity, one at a time or all together. I think the word "pray" and its cognates have bene kind of gnosticized. For most of its history as an English word it meant "ask". For me there is no ESSENTIAL difference between asking you to ask for me and asking Mary to ask for me.
Because he did not die for Mary, but he did die for me, ...
What exactly do you think the Keys of the Kingom of Heaven and "Feed My sheep" meant?
Only Catholics believe that the Church as existed on the day of penecost was the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church as defined by denomination.
If such was true, everybody but Catholics are condemned to hell with that line of thinking.
That's your justification that Peter was the first Pope?
I know what they meant. And who said them? Jesus Christ.
I, FWIW, would have said that Mary's unique place in the heilsgeshichte comes from the redemption wrought by our Lord.
Well, that make it all the more amazing that they would put ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in the Holy Scripture about the New Pope, his role, etc. You'd think they would have left out the part where Paul had to spank him. Very bad for it to be recorded forever how the New Pope was setting a bad example and needed to be scolded.
NOBODY who is in Heaven is DEAD. They are the "Sea of Witnesses" spoken of in Revelation. Their prayers continually go to the Father.
There have been lots of Popes who needed spanking. I don't consider needing a good one up 'side the haid and sitting in the chair of Peter to be mutually exclusive. St. Catherine administered a few good butt warmers to the Pope of her day.
All those who claim that Mary was born sinless and never sinned, since Jesus only died for those who were sinners. He said so Himself as clear as day.
Well maybe not as Pope, (a word that wasn't used until long after the death of Peter) but who is the only Apostle; to walk on water, (Matt. 14:28-29), be told he has divine knowledge (Matt. 16:17), who is the only one that Jesus prays for by name (Luke 22:31-32) and is given the keys to the kingdom (Matt. 16:19?
At the time of the early church I would say that Paul was the more prominent leader than Peter. The NT also has outlined for us church structure. In that structure the church has leaders in every city, there is no "one" leader over all.
"You're right. And that belief includes adherence to the Lord's proclamations to Peter."
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mark 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Just because all those things transpired in the NT gospels doesn't mean that Jesus appointed Peter as the first pope.
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